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Are islams "teachings" to blame for suicide bombings? watch

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    (Original post by melbourne)
    Do you think that the way people are "obsessed" with the Koran is the main reason for these suicide bombings? Just wondering.............
    You are an idiot!
    You manage to have this opinion and base it on know knowledge at all of Islam. Islam's holy book is not the 'koran' it's the Quran
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    (Original post by Meat Loaf Rocks)
    You are an idiot!
    You manage to have this opinion and base it on know knowledge at all of Islam. Islam's holy book is not the 'koran' it's the Quran
    when translating foreign words into english there isn't really any correct spelling as long as it sounds right, but it is true that most muslims call it the Qur'an (as it's more accurate in terms of how it sounds).
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    (Original post by Ali_g)
    The first question is whether "Islam" claims to be simple in the way we understand the word. It claims that it has one true message. THough to follow this message is difficult.
    Well, if the meaning of simple in the koran is different from ours, then the meaning of everything is probably different from ours so it isn't easy for uis to understand.
    It is what makes us human what makes the simple things difficult. "Pray five times a day" is a simple message but actually doing it might be difficult.
    isn't praying five times a day an inference drawn from the hadith rather than part of the koran's message? You are confusing two different things: the message itself is simple to understand, the accomplishment is difficult.The principles of addition are easy: adding two twenty figure numbers isn't easy, for very different reasons.
    Live in peace and do not kill innocent people is a simple message but living in certain areas in the world under severe living conditions (I do not want to justify it, I just can understand how people might become willing to do terrorist attacks) makes it difficult to be e.g. peace-loving. And it is much easier to get support from other areas with the same conditions if there is a common bond like a religion.
    There is the urther problem that muslims are- in easy to understand langauge- exhorted to identify with other muslims. For example, among the worst genocides numerically in the last twenty years have been in Irian Jaya, East Timor and Sudan. In every case there have been racial elements which were at least as important as- perhaps more important than- religious ones. Even so, muslims have not considered these matters of any great worth; indeed, Osama Bin Laden justified the Bali bombings on the ghrounds of Australia's very belated support for East Timorese independence.

    Again I ould say that if sth (even simple) is misused, it does not to mean that it is not simple. You could misuse e.g. every political concept, but it does not mean that the concept is complex. I might just want to use it in order to convince others who believe in the concept but have not fully understand it (partly because of a lack of education).
    The problem here is that the koran actually says it is simple and easy to understand though. It also seems to be easy to misunderstand as well.
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    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    The problem here is that the koran actually says it is simple and easy to understand though. It also seems to be easy to misunderstand as well.
    The Qur'an is designed to be simple to understand if you try to understand it. To be sure you understand it, you really should go through the whole thing once. The Qur'an says of itself, there are some verses in it that are wholly clear (i.e. impossible to misinterpret) and these are the foundations of the Book (i.e. the most important), and there are some verses which are not wholly clear. I don't think you should pretend as if you understand a verse which isn't wholly clear when you aren't sure whether or not you understand it.

    "It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allâh. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding." - translation of Surah 3 verse 7
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    "isn't praying five times a day an inference drawn from the hadith rather than part of the koran's message? You are confusing two different things: the message itself is simple to understand, the accomplishment is difficult.The principles of addition are easy: adding two twenty figure numbers isn't easy, for very different reasons." Weejimmie

    To pray five times a day is fard. It is a duty written in the Quran. Every prayer has parts which contain sunna, which was not told to do by God but which was a common practise of the Prophet.
    One example: The midday prayer has 4 rekat sunnet (in Turkih it's called sunnet..), 4 fard and two again sunnet.
    You actually repeated what I said ("It claims that it has one true message. THough to follow this message is difficult." ) with: "the message itself is simple to understand, the accomplishment is difficult."

    "The problem here is that the koran actually says it is simple and easy to understand though. It also seems to be easy to misunderstand as well." Weejimmie

    You can always misunderstand simple thing, if you WANT to.
    And it is simple in comparison with what you get. You might write a test at a noname university and say it was rather difficult considering that it is just about entering this uni. But the same test for entry in Harvard might be seen as easy in relation to what you get.
    A Muslim believes in the life after death. What he/ she might receive is so much that the actual test/ exam (our life) is comporable easy...
    Simple means sth like easy to fulfill if you really want to. Simple cannot be regarded as sth absolute. I mean a a math book can explain complex problems in a simple manner though it is not simple = easy.
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    (Original post by nas7232)
    This is irrelevant to the thread makers question. I think the thread maker is discussing the atrocities of the london bombings and on going suicide bombings of iraq.

    I believe the muslim community needs to teach islam in a more effectively way to avoid further atrocities. These type of attacks are more common amongst the muslim communities and now other religions such as hindus and sikhs are subjected to racist attacks by BNP/National front e.t.c
    I was going to read the whole thread and attack all the bigots here but I had to stop at this post: I'd agree with the poster 100% here, the muslim community does need to step up and make sure that members of the ummah aren't being led astray by terrorrist groups. See? If the people on this sub-forum stop making derogatory and ignorant comments along the lines of 'we all know that all of these muslims do etc/ are like this...' and actually enter into a meaningful dialogue, we might get some actual results, wouldn't that be nice?
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    I was going to read the whole thread and attack all the bigots here but I had to stop at this post: I'd agree with the poster 100% here, the muslim community does need to step up and make sure that members of the ummah aren't being led astray by terrorrist groups. See? If the people on this sub-forum stop making derogatory and ignorant comments along the lines of 'we all know that all of these muslims do etc/ are like this...' and actually enter into a meaningful dialogue, we might get some actual results, wouldn't that be nice?
    yeah! It is really strange. There are so many issues to discuss, but first Islam is chosen more than one time here (with slightly different issues but having the same direction). Second, the questions are often posed as rhetorical questions. The authors dislike Islam. I mean, please, do not start a pseudo-debate. No problem if you disagree with real islamic beliefs (that is your choice)...
    I honestly do not understand why Muslims need to defend themselves in every forum dealing with religion with some pseudoempirical arguments like:"See some Muslims are terrorist. Islam and the Muslim community therefore support terrorists. Islam is bad" or "Some women are oppressed in the Islamic world. Islam therefore supports this. Islam is bad."
    If you disagree with sth which is commonly believed among Muslims (whatever: the prayer, the financial system, the meaning of life and death) that is fine. You can argue against it. It is a discussion about the theory of Islam.
    It is really important that criticising a religion is a theoretical critic. You look at what Islam is and critize it. The connection often made between the act of Muslims (being a Muslim is hereby one trait as is being a German or British, being a comedy lover, ..) and there religious reasons should be made more carefully. There are often other causes involved!
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    And why is teachings in parentheses? You don't think the principles of Islam are teachings?

    TEACHING n.
    1) The act, practice, occupation, or profession of a teacher.

    2)
    a)Something taught.
    b)A precept or doctrine
    . Often used in the plural: the teachings of Buddha.

    adj.
    Of, involving, or used for teaching: teaching materials; teaching methods.
    Working as a teacher or in teaching: teaching assistants.

    Do want to debate this?
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    I've voted that it does cause suicide bombers. But other religions may do so also. Without Islam, the crazy people wouldn't have a cause. You don't go out and blow yourself up for no reason. They must really believe in what they're doing, otherwise they simply wouldn't do it!! Hence if they hadn't had Islam to make them so fanatical, they may not have done it. But following Islam doesn't mean that someone is going to be a suicide bomber. However, I think the extreme form is encouraging them to do and think very wrong things.

    You get terrorists all the time, from every religion. Look at the IRA, or Guy Fawkes.
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    And why is teachings in parentheses? You don't think the principles of Islam are teachings?
    I'd call the more extreme cases (ie, the bombers) "brainwashing". It's obvious that killing people =/= heaven.
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    questions in poll are vague. my belief is that terrorists see islam as endorsing the use of terorism, but i doubt this is what it is for. Also, i think that in general muslims are ok; its just were extremist clerics that want to make everyone and thing muslim, and preach extremist ****, is when we start getting problems eg the london bombers from leeds.
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    About 5/6 years ago I saw an interview/documentary with Bin Laden being interviewed. To the gist of it he basically believes he is a true muslim and every-other muslim is not true. He went on to cite that he was carrying out these things becuase they were written down in the holy book.
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    Suicide as a weapon is not a Muslim idea.

    The Japanese kamikaze were doing it for centuries before 9/11 etc.
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    You manage to have this opinion and base it on know knowledge at all of Islam. Islam's holy book is not the 'koran' it's the Quran
    Iranians say Qoran Pakistanis say Kuran, Arabs say Qur'an turks say Küran I don't thik it matters.

    Anyone who voted yes in this poll is imply wrong. You only have to look at Japanese and Tamil suicide bombers.

    The Qoran does make most things clear. People must dress modestly. People cannot eat pork. These type of things are obviiusly and clearly stated. Because of translation differences and differences between modern and classical and modern and ancient Arabic some things get confused such as whether the Qoran actually states that women must wear a head covering rather than just cover their body flesh and body shape.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Iranians say Qoran Pakistanis say Kuran, Arabs say Qur'an turks say Küran I don't thik it matters.
    I absolutely agree. It does not matter as long a we all understand what we mean. But let me just say that turks say Kur'an or Kuran but not Küran (though we use the ü quite often.. :rolleyes: )
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    (Original post by melbourne)
    Do you think that the way people are "obsessed" with the Koran is the main reason for these suicide bombings? Just wondering.............
    well if the suicide bomber themselves does it "in the name of islam" and believes they are commanded to commit such acts because of what they've made of the islamic books and teachings, then yes they are a cause.
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    I was going to read the whole thread and attack all the bigots here but I had to stop at this post: I'd agree with the poster 100% here, the muslim community does need to step up and make sure that members of the ummah aren't being led astray by terrorrist groups. See? If the people on this sub-forum stop making derogatory and ignorant comments along the lines of 'we all know that all of these muslims do etc/ are like this...' and actually enter into a meaningful dialogue, we might get some actual results, wouldn't that be nice?
    I totally agree with you.
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    Sorry Ali and teþekkürler for the information. I'm off to Turkey in a few weeks time, perhaps you could help me out with some phrases? :smile:
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    You might find this interesting, written by an educated muslim..........

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimon...ndrea50716.htm
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    (Original post by md103)
    You might find this interesting, written by an educated muslim..........

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimon...ndrea50716.htm
    Faithfreedom is full of half educated idiots. I used to be a member there. The name of the site itself is paradoxical, they are so obsessed with faith rather than being "free" of it.
 
 
 
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