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post-grad question

i was jus wondering say if you dont go to a top-ranked uni but yet you do a course like chemcial eng and from my knowledge most of the chem eng courses done in the uk are all accredited by the icheme but yh anyway after the 3years you come out with a first or really good 2:1. can u apply to a really good uni like ucl or imperial to do ur post-grad?

Reply 1

apotoftea

19

isoldier

i was jus wondering say if you dont go to a top-ranked uni but yet you do a course like chemcial eng and from my knowledge most of the chem eng courses done in the uk are all accredited by the icheme but yh anyway after the 3years you come out with a first or really good 2:1. can u apply to a really good uni like ucl or imperial to do ur post-grad?

Your undergrad institution should not and won't have impact on whether you get into somewhere which is deemed 'better'. And there's nothing stopping you applying anywhere you like :smile:

Yes, absolutely.

Definately. No matter what the financial situation is like there is dire need for PhD students in many areas. My supervisor at Imperial has had one position open for 2-3 months with only 1 application :P Fully funded. I have also heard from multiple sources that some times 2:1s are preferred before 1sts because 1sts are usually good at exams while 2:1s are more balanced and often have better drive/motivation for an actual PhD project.

It doesn't make much sense to me but that's what I've heard. Maybe she's just trying to allay my crappy mark ^^

Reply 4

Cirsium

19

ponjavic

definitely. No matter what the financial situation is like there is dire need for PhD students in many areas. My supervisor at Imperial has had one position open for 2-3 months with only 1 application :P Fully funded. I have also heard from multiple sources that some times 2:1s are preferred before 1sts because 1sts are usually good at exams while 2:1s are more balanced and often have better drive/motivation for an actual PhD project.
It doesn't make much sense to me but that's what I've heard. Maybe she's just trying to allay my crappy mark ^^

Utter rubbish. It may be true for some jobs - because some places claim they'd rather have well balanced people than smart people. For research though, certainly in the sciences, while a 1st is by no means a passport over the heads of other people with 2is, the vast vast vast majority of people I know doing postgrad had 1sts.

Go for it!

Bekaboo

Utter rubbish. It may be true for some jobs - because some places claim they'd rather have well balanced people than smart people. For research though, certainly in the sciences, while a 1st is by no means a passport over the heads of other people with 2is, the vast vast vast majority of people I know doing postgrad had 1sts.

Tell that to the three lecturers I've heard it from. I said it doesn't make sense to me but it's what they say. They probably have experience working with the two categories and draw their conclusion from that. This is strictly PhD related as per the thread topic.

At Imperial at least it seems like a 50/50% mix of 1sts and 2:1s although most of the 2:1s are from particular unis.

Reply 7

balancecatcher

Bekaboo

because some places claim they'd rather have well balanced people than smart people

This is confusing to me - if I have a first, does that automatically make me unbalanced? And unbalanced in what way? I'm unhinged now? :eek:

Reply 8

ponjavic

1

balancecatcher

This is confusing to me - if I have a first, does that automatically make me unbalanced? And unbalanced in what way? I'm unhinged now? :eek:

That's what bothers me as well.

It could be possible that unbalanced people or socially inept people have an easier time to delve deeper into topics and also to find the motivation for doing this due to less distractions. Naturally a first does not automatically put you in this category but being in this category might give you an easier time achieving a first.

This is obviously a sweeping general statement and more often than not false but this could be the perspective from which some people are viewing the situation.

Reply 9

Cirsium

19

ponjavic

This is obviously a sweeping general statement and more often than not false but this could be the perspective from which some people are viewing the situation.

Exactly. And it annoys the hell out of me. On paper, I must be one of the most well balanced students to come out of my class. I got a 1st, while rowing for the W1, volunteering in a local primary school and playing in the university orchestra. Clearly, I didn't spend my life with my head in a book and I'm not lacking in social skills. But to some people "1st class degree from Oxford" means "social recluse. Reject now." It's ridiculous.

Reply 10

ChemistBoy

16

I've yet to meet a British-educated academic under 45 who doesn't have a first - I'm sure they exist, but I haven't met one. Clearly there is some relation there with degree class and career choice. Those with firsts are far more likely to want to enter research and usually possess the intellectual ability to do well in that environment.

To be honest the whole idea that you can only get a first by not having a social life is utter tosh, especially in science and engineering. Me and my mates were the biggest alkies in the chemistry class, we all got firsts though!

Reply 11

hellohello.

ChemistBoy

I've yet to meet a British-educated academic under 45 who doesn't have a first - I'm sure they exist, but I haven't met one. Clearly there is some relation there with degree class and career choice. Those with firsts are far more likely to want to enter research and usually possess the intellectual ability to do well in that environment.

To be honest the whole idea that you can only get a first by not having a social life is utter tosh, especially in science and engineering. Me and my mates were the biggest alkies in the chemistry class, we all got firsts though!

That is quite astonishing when only 11% of people get a first each year.

That post was extremely patronising.

Reply 12

Zoetrope

hellohello.

That is quite astonishing when only 11% of people get a first each year.

That post was extremely patronising.

Nah, everyone has a first.

Reply 13

ChemistBoy

16

hellohello.

That is quite astonishing when only 11% of people get a first each year.

Why is it astonishing? I'll wager a lot less than 11% of graduates end up as academics. Also that stat is not really useful given the fact that there are many more science and engineering researchers than researchers in the arts, etc. and science and engineering first rates are much higher than 11% (although it is very much more difficult to get a PhD without a first in arts and social sciences). You'd need a weighted average to be anything close to meaningful and it would have to be over the time period concerned as well.

That post was extremely patronising.

In what way?

Reply 14

ponjavic

1

hellohello.

That is quite astonishing when only 11% of people get a first each year.

That post was extremely patronising.

Hear hear

And beekaboo, it would no doubt be easy to show yourself to be balanced and socially adept and thus more attractive than an equally balanced 2:1. Thus I don't see why the generalisation affects you.

Reply 15

ChemistBoy

16

ponjavic

Hear hear

I don't see what is so shocking. Over 30.9% of adults aged between 19 and retirement age have a first degree. Less than 2% of that same group holds a research doctorate. Clearly not everyone with a PhD becomes an academic so the group is even smaller, say less than 1%.

And beekaboo, it would no doubt be easy to show yourself to be balanced and socially adept and thus more attractive than an equally balanced 2:1. Thus I don't see why the generalisation affects you.

It's easy, if you are given the opportunity. That is why the generalisation affects people like Bekaboo and myself.

Reply 16

Cirsium

19

ponjavic

Hear hear

And beekaboo, it would no doubt be easy to show yourself to be balanced and socially adept and thus more attractive than an equally balanced 2:1. Thus I don't see why the generalisation affects you.

But how am I supposed to show that? Working in the city never appealed to me that much - but so many of the things my friends applied for didn't even give you the chance to give a CV where you could cunningly slip in a few things like I mentioned. It was literally "what's your degree? What were your A-levels? Do this test." And if that's all you're faced with then how are you supposed to show that you're balanced and socially adept?

Reply 17

ponjavic

1

Bekaboo

But how am I supposed to show that? Working in the city never appealed to me that much - but so many of the things my friends applied for didn't even give you the chance to give a CV where you could cunningly slip in a few things like I mentioned. It was literally "what's your degree? What were your A-levels? Do this test." And if that's all you're faced with then how are you supposed to show that you're balanced and socially adept?

There is no way they will discriminate against someone on the basis that they have a first and not a 2:1. What would happen in that case is that you'd be given an interview and they might be more apprehensive or something than if it was a 2:1 (still I do not believe this is the case I'm just reasoning) but you'd still have the interview or PS or correspondence.

If it is a respectable company you always get case study questions or miniature essays where you can show this.

On another note the point about 11% graduating with a first and them being more likely to go into academia, it is somewhat true but far from the extent to which you assume. Out of these 11%, certainly a higher percentage of students than the average percentage attempt PhDs. Still I highly doubt the percentage of first class students going PhD is even near 50%. This means that out of the possibly 10% of students going PhD at least 5% are filled by non-first class students i.e. 2:1s with some random 2:2s+MSc thrown in.

Reply 18

isoldier

OP

yo thanks for the replys guys! really helpful!

Reply 19

LawQueen

14

Bekaboo

Exactly. And it annoys the hell out of me. On paper, I must be one of the most well balanced students to come out of my class. I got a 1st, while rowing for the W1, volunteering in a local primary school and playing in the university orchestra. Clearly, I didn't spend my life with my head in a book and I'm not lacking in social skills. But to some people "1st class degree from Oxford" means "social recluse. Reject now." It's ridiculous.

I think those extra-curricular interests you've listed are not what you would call "social", only very keen students/people would participate in those sorts of things.

post-grad question

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