Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Institutionally, have straight, able, white males become second class? Watch

    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    If paranoia was a drug, most of you would be ODing by now. Last time I checked most managers, members of parliment and generally any white/blue collar jobs were occupied by white males. Let's not start playing the race card just because others used to in the past now. It's a bit embarassing.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    It's really not as bad as some people say. However I still oppose positive discrimination (if it helps, I'm British Asian (Indian)) but hell, at least I can get on some quotas :p:
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    You do realise that is more to encourage ethnic minorities who would have thought "whats (sic) the ******* point" of applying to a company dominated by white, middle class workers?

    And to argue that white, middle class men don't have the easiest ride in society is pure fallacy. Just absolutely ridiculous. Open your ******* eyes.
    Come now lets not have the petty digs with the missing apostrophe.

    Look I'm not for a minute denying that genuine racism has not and does not exist.

    But it so happens that English people happen to be white... and white collar jobs - by definition - happen to be dominated by... white collar workers. Those pesky white middle class males eh, are you one of them as well?

    My earlier post was a bit terse... and this is a complex area... that needs more elaboration then I can give right now. But either way I'm not in favour of positive discrimination, why would I be? And no that does not make me racist.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Positive discrimination doesn't lead to a fairer society imo, let everybody get where they can on their own merits and things will run smoother.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I think we get the balance about right in the UK. I have to say I know of some very able people in the USA who have been rejected from postgrad programs on the basis that places are reserved for ethnic minorities, who are admitted with a much weaker background. Maybe there is a role for AA/PD at undergrad level - but for postgrads its just silly.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    all HR and equality department staff were female at a compnay i interned at. i cudn help but laugh.

    edit: this is not meant sexist but its kind of funny that the equal opportunity people are all female.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toasted)
    This isn't "fact", it's an ignorant fantasy. The UCAS questions on ethnicity are voluntary and are not passed on to universities until after the selection process and giving a jobs to less able candidates on the basis of ethnicity is illegal under UK employment law.
    Last year I was rejected for a summer placement with the Scottish Executive because the position was only open to disabled people and ethnic minorities. Apparently, this was due to the fact that these types of people were 'under-represented' in the Scottish Executive.

    Disgrace.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by g_star_raw_1989)
    Ethnic minorities and women have long faced discrimination when applying for jobs and the evidence shows this:

    A government sting operation targeting hundreds of employers across Britain has uncovered widespread racial discrimination against workers with African and Asian names.

    Researchers sent nearly 3,000 job applications under false identities in an attempt to discover if employers were discriminating against jobseekers with foreign names. Using names recognisably from three different communities – Nazia Mahmood, Mariam Namagembe and Alison Taylor – false identities were created with similar experience and qualifications. Every false applicant had British education and work histories.

    They found that an applicant who appeared to be white would send nine applications before receiving a positive response of either an invitation to an interview or an encouraging telephone call. Minority candidates with the same qualifications and experience had to send 16 applications before receiving a similar response.

    The alarming results have prompted Jim Knight, the employment minister, to consider barring companies that have been found to have discriminated against employees from applying for government contracts


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009...ent-undercover
    If you think that's bad you have clearly never worked with, or had a minority/woman work for you. They are truely terrible workers. I know it is a massive and unfair generalisation, but if you are a small company and want to save yourself some time you might as well just short list them out. It is rather strange how there is so much uproar about this, yet no one gives a damn that the majority of universities places are now taken by women, even though they have yet to make that many substantial break throughs in many areas of high importance; science, economics etc.

    Out of interest, when was the last time you saw a minority owned business actually employ a white person? Why exactly should white people bring minorities into their businesses when the reverse doesn't happen. There are also exclusively female businesses popping up all over the place, and there would be outrage if men tried to do this, probably because they would be too good.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I don't think it's exactly discriminating against white people as such, but there certainly is a level of positive discrimination towards minorities nowadays, as well as women (who are I believe the majority). It would be interesting to see how a "White Entertainment Network" would be received among the black community, considering the presence (at least it used to be there last time I had Sky) of the Black Entertainment Network (BEN)... It would also be interesting to see how a White Music Award would follow the Black Music Award shows that go on in some places, or how a Minister for Men's affairs would be received by the public to offer the same services as a Minister for Woman's affairs or whatever it's called in this country.

    I agree that it is ignorant to think that white people are being surpressed as such, but it is equally ignorant to say that there is no positive discrimination towards minorities and women. Until all races and both sexes are actually treated equally as equal can be, i.e. we simply stop worrying about race or gender and whether or not there's a 50/50 balance in the workplace or whatever (not that there is that worry, I'm just making an example) there will always be some form of discrimination.

    By the way, I'm not saying BEN or the Black Music Awards shouldn't exist, neither of them matter one bit to me, I'm just wondering whether the white equivalent would be branded as racist or not?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    I think its OK to discriminate against white, middle class men, I'm upper class myself and I really look down at my social inferiors. I would never employ an oik from the provinces who keep coal in their bath and only attended a minor public school.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maker)
    I think its OK to discriminate against white, middle class men, I'm upper class myself and I really look down at my social inferiors. I would never employ an oik from the provinces who keep coal in their bath and only attended a minor public school.
    What's your title: Lord, Earl?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Star Scream)
    What's your title: Lord, Earl?
    I don't fraternise with the lower orders.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Delusional whitey at it again.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Hmm. Positive discrimination is probably nowhere as big as it's been made out to be, even if it is a fundamentally stupid idea. In the end the companies who don't care about the gender or skin colour of their employees, not being biased in either direction, are going to have the best choice of job applicants and so will do better.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    It's so hard to be a rich white guy, a-bloooo a blooo bluh-blooo bloooo
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Philosoraptor)
    I'm sorry how do you apply to university based on race?
    I said assessed by merit and not race, i didnt say apply by race. And universities have quotas for ethnic minorities, people from disadvantaged backgrounds, and other quotas. I'm saying that I believe if you're good enough you will get in regardless of any of this.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mansfieldlj)
    And universities have quotas for ethnic minorities, people from disadvantaged backgrounds, and other quotas.
    No they don't, because UCAS don't make this kind of information available to universities so they cannot use it as a basis to allocate places. Some universities may have targets which they try to meet by targeting their recruitment towards people from certain backgrounds, but that is not the same as having a quota.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toasted)
    No they don't, because UCAS don't make this kind of information available to universities so they cannot use it as a basis to allocate places. Some universities may have targets which they try to meet by targeting their recruitment towards people from certain backgrounds, but that is not the same as having a quota.
    My apologies for using the word quota, it is indeed the targets i was referring to.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    If you think that's bad you have clearly never worked with, or had a minority/woman work for you. They are truely terrible workers. I know it is a massive and unfair generalisation, but if you are a small company and want to save yourself some time you might as well just short list them out. It is rather strange how there is so much uproar about this, yet no one gives a damn that the majority of universities places are now taken by women, even though they have yet to make that many substantial break throughs in many areas of high importance; science, economics etc.
    Oh dear god. Are you honestly saying that a section of society that was entirely excluded from education (at least in Europe) until the last hundred years or so is terrible for not making discoveries in science and economics, fields that are still dominated by men and discourage women?
    What about Marie Curie, Florrie Nightingale, to think off the top of my head?

    If you want to shout about women in universities, who wants to show that women still get paid 17% less than men, in general, in full time employment? And this translates directly across when it comes to graduates. You're still doing fine mate.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by emmarainbow)
    Oh dear god. Are you honestly saying that a section of society that was entirely excluded from education (at least in Europe) until the last hundred years or so is terrible for not making discoveries in science and economics, fields that are still dominated by men and discourage women?
    What about Marie Curie, Florrie Nightingale, to think off the top of my head?

    If you want to shout about women in universities, who wants to show that women still get paid 17% less than men, in general, in full time employment? And this translates directly across when it comes to graduates. You're still doing fine mate.
    It doesn't matter how long they have had access to it, as long as a few generations of women have. There have been 2-3 generations of women who have been eligible to go to university yet they have still come up with relatively few discoveries in comparison. I never said there were no scientific discoveries by women, I said the ratio is more like 1:10 or even 20 discoveries by men. Out of interest, was it supposed to be ironic that the women you chose as examples of distinguised discoverers were around before you claimed women had access to education? Face it, women just aren't as good at that sort of thing, stop making excuses. Women are occupying over 50% of universities but are responsible for fewer than 10% of discoveries. It is indefensible.

    Women get paid less than men across the board for a reason; maternity, risk in the job, travelling, flexiworking etc. all mean that they get paid slightly less. If women don't take maternity, travel around the globe, work in high risk environments, and work the same length of week as men, then they actually get paid 129% of what a man does! Furthermore you need to look up a chemical called 'oxytocin', which is released during and after pregnancy. This chemical makes women leave high powered careers for children. This is not mens fault. Also, have you compared male and female start up businesses? Mens businesses are far better and fail a lot less. Are you suggesting that men have somehow figured out a way to make womens businesses fail? :rolleyes:. It's strange that when given the chance to be their own boss and set their own pay they generally fail... because of their unwillingness to enter dangerous environments, travel, work 80 hour weeks, or not take maternity.

    So rather than *****ing about inequalities you should probably look at why they exist. As if men are somehow all in cahoots to underpay women.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brexit voters: Do you stand by your vote?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.