Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Scriptural proof as in from scripture/religious text you utter imbecile :nah:



    Just because they don't call out for it, it doesn't mean they don't believe in it.....



    Great but this isn't relevant.

    In conclusion you fail

    :rolleyes:
    1.You didn't answer my question. In a land where religion is so important to society, where else would inspiration for stoning come from?

    2. You have not even read what I said. If they believe in it and keep quiet, then there is absolutely no harm done whatsoever. A paedophile is not an evil man if he does not act whatsoever on his inhibitions. Muslims do act on their beliefs, which clashes with british society in some cases, which is where the problem lies.

    3. Explain how that isn't relevant?

    yeah, I fail. But wait... I didnt...!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fynch101)
    1.You didn't answer my question. In a land where religion is so important to society, where else would inspiration for stoning come from?
    First of all you never had a question, I told you that in Sharia law you cannot stone a rape victim and I insisted on you providing scriptural evidence to prove otherwise, seeing that you failed to do so, you try to weasel yourself out with that babble above.

    2. You have not even read what I said. If they believe in it and keep quiet, then there is absolutely no harm done whatsoever.
    Muslims are afforded the right to freedom of thought and freedom of speech, they can say whatever they like.

    A paedophile is not an evil man if he does not act whatsoever on his inhibitions. Muslims do act on their beliefs, which clashes with british society in some cases, which is where the problem lies.
    Right because the Sharia courts in this country dole out criminal punishments. Moron.

    3. Explain how that isn't relevant?

    yeah, I fail. But wait... I didnt...!
    It had nothing to do with the issue we're discussing. So yes, you fail, miserably.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fynch101)
    This is awful. I hope other users of TSR are seeing this because I can't believe the level of people I am dealing with here. I am not a buddhist. I don't tend to think about God much, because at the end of the day you will never ever find a real proven answer. Its much better to be spiritual than religious, hence why buddhists are a prime example of the best way humans can behave with an attitude towards other religion. The idea that you feel the need to prove someone else's religion wrong is 1. disgusting, 2. fundamentally flawed because all religion is based on fundamentals which cannot be proved. The fact you show such enormous disregard for the fact that all human beings are different and react to different situations in different ways shows how deluded you are. I am all in favour of islam. But I am also all in favour of religious tolerance, and you have crossed the line, and shown that really I cannot possibly be in favour of both without contradicting myself. Then again, you don't represent all muslims. It is the same problem time and time again, and will humans ever find a solution to it? NO. So stop behaving in such a way. Learn to respect others for all virtues, not just religious beliefs, and incite peace for a glorious future for our children and their ancestors.
    Wow you should be an english teacher but besides the point i respect every faith
    and sorry if you are tolerant of islam and see it as ok why couldnt you see it is the best way of life?
    Dont give me examples of culture and mass media aswell
    and islam is never fundamentally flawed theres too much proof islam is the best way of life and god exists
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    No.
    great didnt ask you anyway......
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by z332008)
    and islam is never fundamentally flawed theres too much proof islam is the best way of life and god exists
    Such as what?
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Diaz89)
    First of all you never had a question, I told you that in Sharia law you cannot stone a rape victim and I insisted on you providing scriptural evidence to prove otherwise, seeing that you failed to do so, you try to weasel yourself out with that babble above.



    Muslims are afforded the right to freedom of thought and freedom of speech, they can say whatever they like.



    Right because the Sharia courts in this country dole out criminal punishments. Moron.



    It had nothing to do with the issue we're discussing. So yes, you fail, miserably.
    I have asked the question, clearly, twice. I will ask it a third time. Where else would a country so inspired by religion get an idea like stoning for rape from? In british and western history, such a thing has never ever happened, which is saying something as the death penalty has been in place since law began.

    This is exactly the thing. I think freedom of speech is a form of extremism in itself. It should never ever be granted to such individuals and muslims who are intolerant of this country's values and law.

    When did I say they carry out criminal punishments? Moron, again, learn how to argue.

    It had everything to do with what we're discussing. Which is sharia law in courts. The problem I have with this is intolerance. I provided some thoughts on that intolerance. So you fail. Again.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by z332008)
    Wow you should be an english teacher but besides the point i respect every faith
    and sorry if you are tolerant of islam and see it as ok why couldnt you see it is the best way of life?
    Dont give me examples of culture and mass media aswell
    and islam is never fundamentally flawed theres too much proof islam is the best way of life and god exists
    I dont understand
    Why exactly should I believe Islam is the best way of life? And why exactly should I think Islam is the best way of life just because I am tolerant of it?
    Islam is fundamentally flawed. Muhammad was nothing but a guy who had hallucinations in the desert. Prove me wrong? you can't. If you find this offensive sorry, but if you say jesus was a megalomaniac and his disciples made up/glorified stories I would also not be able to prove you wrong whatsoever. There is absolutely no proof. Because it is written in a book, it is not proof. Muhammad may never have existed for all you know, he could be part of a conspiracy to keep the plebs in line created by an old government. I admit thats much less likely, but still can't be proven wrong.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fynch101)
    1.You didn't answer my question. In a land where religion is so important to society, where else would inspiration for stoning come from?


    Came from here.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fynch101)
    Well you're contradicting yourself there. On what grounds do you say their beliefs are misinformation, and at what point do they cause any problems for soceital, intellectual, scientific, technological and certainly moral progress? I can't believe you could dare call a buddhist immoral!
    You obviously know nothing about their beliefs. You're also obviously very full of yourself to arrive at such a conclusion. You're going to have to learn the hard way that not everyone thinks the same way you do.
    I haven't really contradicted myself, have I? Do you know what a contradiction is?

    I say their beliefs are misinformation in that they have no rational or scientific basis. It is nothing buy untestable nonsense, and to make an organised religion out of that is to spread misinformation.

    Misinformation, when coupled with the belief that misinformation is acceptable if it is informed by 'faith' leads to problems for society. That is why a person who denies evolution because they have faith in Genesis can successfully campaign to have creationism taught in schools. That puts a barrier on scientific and intellectual progress of pupils. It causes moral problems because we are left with a bunch of people whose moral code is informed by faith and religious texts/doctrine/dogma - and when this is interpreted in malevolent ways (which it can be, very, very easily, since there's no specified code for interpretation), you end up with terrorism, in-group mentality, and opposition to progress.

    Buddhism is no different in that it is based on metaphysical claims and beliefs for which there is no scientific evidence, or otherwise rational basis, and it can have very serious consequences.

    For example, consider Thích Quảng Đức who requested that a can of gas be emptied on his head, and that he be set alight whilst praying, posed in a meditative manner. Consider also, the Buddhist clergymen who formed a tight circle around him, making it impossible for police to intervene. Consider then, the people who thought this was a GOOD thing, and who decided to pray on the spot.

    Quite clearly, even actions informed by Buddhist beliefs can have profoundly bad effects on people's mentalities and moral codes.

    Clearly, there are forms of Buddhism which are exceptions to this, and have no supernatural or metaphysical parts. However, I would not consider this to be a religion as such, and therefore my statement would stand that all religion is necessarily irrational and baseless, and should well and truly **** off before it drives society into the ground.

    And yes, I know there are people who think differently from me, and I don't mind that. What I do mind is when people DON'T think at all, and that is what religion is.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fynch101)
    I dont understand
    Why exactly should I believe Islam is the best way of life? And why exactly should I think Islam is the best way of life just because I am tolerant of it?
    Islam is fundamentally flawed. Muhammad was nothing but a guy who had hallucinations in the desert. Prove me wrong? you can't. If you find this offensive sorry, but if you say jesus was a megalomaniac and his disciples made up/glorified stories I would also not be able to prove you wrong whatsoever. There is absolutely no proof. Because it is written in a book, it is not proof. Muhammad may never have existed for all you know, he could be part of a conspiracy to keep the plebs in line created by an old government. I admit thats much less likely, but still can't be proven wrong.
    Many people blindy follow their parents faiths etc
    many people believe in athiesm etc because of the advancement of science and technology and therefore they dont see the need of a religion

    However i ask you suppose there is a peice of machinery no one has ever seen before and put before you and asked who will be the first person who will be able to tell you the mechanism of the machinery,the athiest will say the 1st person to tell you will say the manufacturer/inventor........athiest will say there was a primary nebula ..a big bang..giving rise to glaxies ..moon and the earth where we live.athiest will back this up with scientific facts which were discovered 30-40 years ago etc.

    Th big bangs mentioned in the quran in surah ambiya 'the heavens and earth will join together and we close them asunder' mentioned over 1400 years ago
    who could have mentioned it
    athiest will say mabye its coincidence .. a fake?
    then if you ask he athiest how is the moon lit ? athiests belived it was lit by itself
    however the quran proves it is illuminated by the sun..surah furqaan
    'blessed is he who placed a constellation in the sky and placed therein a lamp/sunhaving its ownlight and the moon having a reflected/borrowed light'
    Who could have mentioned this 1400 years ago?
    the athiests will just answer muhammed was either intelligent or stole information etc
    athiests will say the earth is spherical however they come to know this when sir francis drake sailed around the world in 1597 proving the earth was round.
    Quran mentions surah naziat 'and thereafter we have made the earth egg shaped' and it doesnt refer to any egg but to an ostrich egg
    which is nearer to round that it is oval who could have mentioned this 1400 years ago?..athiest?
    surah ambiya'it is allah who has created the night and the day the sun and the moon each one travelling in orbit with its own motion'
    Besides the sun resolving it even rotates on its own axis
    im asking you who could have mentioned this 1400 years ago
    today scientists say the earths expanding
    1400 years ago quran mentions numerous accounts this is the case need i say more!!
    hundreds of verses in the quran mention only that of the world cycle
    we can carry on with the fact scientists have recently discovered plants have sexes
    surah taha 'the plants have sexes male and female'
    .............surah furqaan..surah rehmaan 'it is allah who has let free 2 bodies of flowing water though they meet they dont mix their is a barrier between them'
    Proving fresh water and salt water do not mix . why oh why do scientists discover these all now? question yourself
    im using science to compare with islam,because science is the most authentic source so far to date rather than another religion which have been corrupted.
    The quran speaks about biology that allah has created every living thing from water(surah ambiya chapter 21 verse 30)
    need i say more....
    those who have read this why dont they talk about these signs
    there are over 1000 verses in the quran which talk about scientific facts and then ask the athiest who could have mentioned that in the quran
    the athiest will say the creator?
    the manufacturer
    producer
    inventor
    we muslims call him Allah(arabic word for god)
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Phugoid)
    I haven't really contradicted myself, have I? Do you know what a contradiction is?

    I say their beliefs are misinformation in that they have no rational or scientific basis. It is nothing buy untestable nonsense, and to make an organised religion out of that is to spread misinformation.

    Misinformation, when coupled with the belief that misinformation is acceptable if it is informed by 'faith' leads to problems for society. That is why a person who denies evolution because they have faith in Genesis can successfully campaign to have creationism taught in schools. That puts a barrier on scientific and intellectual progress of pupils. It causes moral problems because we are left with a bunch of people whose moral code is informed by faith and religious texts/doctrine/dogma - and when this is interpreted in malevolent ways (which it can be, very, very easily, since there's no specified code for interpretation), you end up with terrorism, in-group mentality, and opposition to progress.

    Buddhism is no different in that it is based on metaphysical claims and beliefs for which there is no scientific evidence, or otherwise rational basis, and it can have very serious consequences.

    For example, consider Thích Quảng Đức who requested that a can of gas be emptied on his head, and that he be set alight whilst praying, posed in a meditative manner. Consider also, the Buddhist clergymen who formed a tight circle around him, making it impossible for police to intervene. Consider then, the people who thought this was a GOOD thing, and who decided to pray on the spot.

    Quite clearly, even actions informed by Buddhist beliefs can have profoundly bad effects on people's mentalities and moral codes.

    Clearly, there are forms of Buddhism which are exceptions to this, and have no supernatural or metaphysical parts. However, I would not consider this to be a religion as such, and therefore my statement would stand that all religion is necessarily irrational and baseless, and should well and truly **** off before it drives society into the ground.

    And yes, I know there are people who think differently from me, and I don't mind that. What I do mind is when people DON'T think at all, and that is what religion is.
    You are contradicting yourself. I will explain why. You can either believe in a God or you can't. Both views can be considered misinformation, depending on your beliefs. You can neither prove there is a God, or prove there isn't a God. You don't believe there is a God, and so that belief is founded on misinformation. And so everyone's beliefs are founded on misinformation, which i suppose by your logic causes society to explode in some sort of millenium bug type craze.

    Thích Quảng Đức did that to himself as a peaceful protest to the vietnam war. It did absolutely no harm to others and was his own decision. He would have requested that other monks prevent extinguishing the flames so that the protest could carry on. Whether this protest was pointless or not is another matter. However it poses no detrimental effect to society whatsoever. His self sacrifice was obviously his own choice, so I see no relevance to your point :confused:

    It doesn't matter if they have supernatural parts or not. If they have no effect on others then they are free to believe what they want if they think it will lead to bettering themselves spiritually.

    What you said last is just plain ignorant. Please explain how religion is not thinking at all? Do you think all there is to religion is believing in God? You're another of these people who think the bible is not worth reading because it supports a belief in God aren't you?
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by z332008)
    Many people blindy follow their parents faiths etc
    many people believe in athiesm etc because of the advancement of science and technology and therefore they dont see the need of a religion

    However i ask you suppose there is a peice of machinery no one has ever seen before and put before you and asked who will be the first person who will be able to tell you the mechanism of the machinery,the athiest will say the 1st person to tell you will say the manufacturer/inventor........athiest will say there was a primary nebula ..a big bang..giving rise to glaxies ..moon and the earth where we live.athiest will back this up with scientific facts which were discovered 30-40 years ago etc.

    Th big bangs mentioned in the quran in surah ambiya 'the heavens and earth will join together and we close them asunder' mentioned over 1400 years ago
    who could have mentioned it
    athiest will say mabye its coincidence .. a fake?
    then if you ask he athiest how is the moon lit ? athiests belived it was lit by itself
    however the quran proves it is illuminated by the sun..surah furqaan
    'blessed is he who placed a constellation in the sky and placed therein a lamp/sunhaving its ownlight and the moon having a reflected/borrowed light'
    Who could have mentioned this 1400 years ago?
    the athiests will just answer muhammed was either intelligent or stole information etc
    athiests will say the earth is spherical however they come to know this when sir francis drake sailed around the world in 1597 proving the earth was round.
    Quran mentions surah naziat 'and thereafter we have made the earth egg shaped' and it doesnt refer to any egg but to an ostrich egg
    which is nearer to round that it is oval who could have mentioned this 1400 years ago?..athiest?
    surah ambiya'it is allah who has created the night and the day the sun and the moon each one travelling in orbit with its own motion'
    Besides the sun resolving it even rotates on its own axis
    im asking you who could have mentioned this 1400 years ago
    today scientists say the earths expanding
    1400 years ago quran mentions numerous accounts this is the case need i say more!!
    hundreds of verses in the quran mention only that of the world cycle
    we can carry on with the fact scientists have recently discovered plants have sexes
    surah taha 'the plants have sexes male and female'
    .............surah furqaan..surah rehmaan 'it is allah who has let free 2 bodies of flowing water though they meet they dont mix their is a barrier between them'
    Proving fresh water and salt water do not mix . why oh why do scientists discover these all now? question yourself
    im using science to compare with islam,because science is the most authentic source so far to date rather than another religion which have been corrupted.
    The quran speaks about biology that allah has created every living thing from water(surah ambiya chapter 21 verse 30)
    need i say more....
    those who have read this why dont they talk about these signs
    there are over 1000 verses in the quran which talk about scientific facts and then ask the athiest who could have mentioned that in the quran
    the athiest will say the creator?
    the manufacturer
    producer
    inventor
    we muslims call him Allah(arabic word for god)
    Well this is a failure of proof straight away. Saying "the heavens and earth will join together and we close them asunder" is not definitely referring to the big bang is it?
    Atheists do not believe the moon is lit by itself... What sort of idiot would think that? Who told you atheists believe that?
    For the last time. Just because the Qur'an says so, it is not proof. Okay?
    Atheists would just argue that it doesn't take a genius to work out that the moon is bright as a result of light reflected from the sun. Ptolemy was around before muhammad, and developed the theory of orbit. From that it is very easy to realise that the moon is bright as a result of reflected suns light.
    I think you mean flat rather than spherical. Egg-shaped is not spherical, therefore you have just said the Qu'ran is wrong. An ostrich egg is not spherical.
    Again, Ptolemy discovered before Muhammad and Islam the theory of orbit. So you're wrong there.
    If the Qur'an tells you the earth is expanding then it is wrong again, it is not expanding...
    Plants do not have genders. They have both male and female parts. At least the majority certainly do.
    Salt and freshwater do mix, but only at an estuary or delta. That is because freshwater is almost always found at places above sea level. Scientists have known this long before Islam was created.
    Allah created nothing from water. Most living things require water to survive, however they did not evolve from H2O.

    Sorry but, you still haven't provided a reason why I should choose Islam just because I am tolerant of it, and why I should see that it is the best way of life.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    An ostrich egg is more rounded and hardly sphere shaped i know it resembles the earth the most
    ptolemy could also tell you muhammad(pbuh) was illiterate and would not have known how to read or write and how else could he know all these facts .they all came in revelations from god to him.
    Let me just say one more thing and il have to say no more
    produce a surah or verse like that from the quran
    in the quran its mentioned

    And if you are in doubt
    as to which We have revealed to Our servant,
    then produce a sura like it,
    and call on your helper, besides Allah,
    if you are truthful.
    Sura 2:23
    So go ahead what more can i say if you cant do it you are proved wrong my friend its hard to admit defeat but be righteous in your ways open your mind and heart and realise the truth
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Oh c'mon, one law for all man.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    This is blown out of proportion - these "courts" settle disputes between muslims sure, but they have no authority to override British law, so it's not exactly shariah law being implemented.

    Daily fail blowing things out of proportion - now there's a surprise.

    If these people want to subject themselves to shariah law than so be it. For example, a woman being told by one of these courts that she can not marry a non-muslim ( i notice it doesn't mention that this ruling is actually non-gender specific I.e. it applies to men marrying non muslim women too), she can either choose to accept their ruling, or simply do as she pleases, since the law of this country states nothing of the kind.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fynch101)
    You are contradicting yourself. I will explain why. You can either believe in a God or you can't. Both views can be considered misinformation, depending on your beliefs. You can neither prove there is a God, or prove there isn't a God. You don't believe there is a God, and so that belief is founded on misinformation. And so everyone's beliefs are founded on misinformation, which i suppose by your logic causes society to explode in some sort of millenium bug type craze.
    What you've written here is absolute nonsense. Religious beliefs are not founded on anything other than dogma. It is arbitrary, and therefore to peddle it as truth is to peddle misinformation. The information that I peddle can either be proven or heavily evidenced. If you are a creationist, then yes, you might consider my information to be misinformation, but since you have no rational basis for that belief, and since I have a wealth of evidence for mine, then you are peddling misinformation, and I am not. It's as simple as that.

    Thích Quảng Đức did that to himself as a peaceful protest to the vietnam war. It did absolutely no harm to others and was his own decision. He would have requested that other monks prevent extinguishing the flames so that the protest could carry on. Whether this protest was pointless or not is another matter. However it poses no detrimental effect to society whatsoever. His self sacrifice was obviously his own choice, so I see no relevance to your point :confused:
    A society in which a group of men allow a healthy man to set himself alight in the middle of a busy street, and then stop emergency services from saving him is a terribly misguided and immoral society. Can you not see that?

    It doesn't matter if they have supernatural parts or not. If they have no effect on others then they are free to believe what they want if they think it will lead to bettering themselves spiritually.
    If they have supernatural parts, then they have parts for which there is no evidence or basis, and therefore to spread those parts as if they were truth is to deceive and indoctrinate without good reason for doing so.

    And what one man considers to be 'spiritually bettering' themselves can be, and often is, detrimental to the rest of society. Some people think that flying an aircraft into a sky scraper and killing thousands of people in mass terrorist attacks brings them to a place of spiritual enlightenment. We cannot tolerate people's arbitrary beliefs because, unless they have a rational basis, they are unpredictable and unsafe. It would be insane to entertain such an idea, ESPECIALLY since there's ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S SUCH A THING AS A SOUL IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    What you said last is just plain ignorant. Please explain how religion is not thinking at all? Do you think all there is to religion is believing in God? You're another of these people who think the bible is not worth reading because it supports a belief in God aren't you?
    Religion is not thinking because it relies on faith, i.e. arbitrary selection of dogma, rather than intellectual inquiry.

    There is more to religion than believing in God, but all religion is built on things for which there is no evidence or rational basis, and therefore, it is built on nothing that should be tolerated.

    I've read the Bible in its entirety, and I can definitely say that I would not recommend reading it to other people because it is full of:

    1) Arbitrary nonsense.
    2) Unfounded statements.
    3) Encouragement and justification of racism, sexism, oppression, persecutation, etc.
    4) Misinformation.

    Reading the Bible offers nothing to the intellectual mind.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by z332008)
    An ostrich egg is more rounded and hardly sphere shaped i know it resembles the earth the most
    ptolemy could also tell you muhammad(pbuh) was illiterate and would not have known how to read or write and how else could he know all these facts .they all came in revelations from god to him.
    Let me just say one more thing and il have to say no more
    produce a surah or verse like that from the quran
    in the quran its mentioned

    And if you are in doubt
    as to which We have revealed to Our servant,
    then produce a sura like it,
    and call on your helper, besides Allah,
    if you are truthful.
    Sura 2:23
    So go ahead what more can i say if you cant do it you are proved wrong my friend its hard to admit defeat but be righteous in your ways open your mind and heart and realise the truth
    It seems that you are almost illiterate yourself. Or maybe, just an idiot? Either way, have you considered writing a holy book? All the best ones have been written by retards just like yourself.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Woomie)
    Their arbitration and conciliation courts based on Sharia. CIVITAS is a neo-conservative outfit. Douglas Murray is hardly objective when it comes to Muslims.
    So what's your point?

    Is Sharia religious law? Yes.
    Is religious law intrinsically flawed? Yes.

    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    On the lines of republique francaise?
    Laïcité :coma:
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by g_star_raw_1989)
    I think before Britain embraces Sharia law, we should get to see it in action. For example, channel 4 should do a Sharia law version of Big Brother.
    "It's 12:15 in the big brother house. Jessica and Lucy are in the garden. Jessica has removed her headscarf, and is summoned to the diary room, where she is promptly stoned by members of Islam4UK."
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Oh ffs. This is Britain. If you live here, you serve under the British Judicial system. Typical disrespect to our country yet again.
 
 
 
Poll
How are you feeling in the run-up to Results Day 2018?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.