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I have been sacked unfaily! Please help me! watch

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    Hi,

    I have just lost my part time job which was in a local bowling ally I have been working for them for almost 6 months and have not had any warnings or a single disciplinary. However, last week we were short staffed (only 3 of us in the whole place) I was thrown on the bar (I have never been on before and not received any training or experience).

    Anyway I was pulled up the other day and told that the bar was down on stock (two cans of red bull) and was asked if I ring everything through the till with I replied yes. They then showed me the CCTV camera on the bar which shows me on the bar giving four people Jagerbombs (Which include a shot of jagermeister and red bull) and not taking any money for them and not ringing them through the till as there was a lot of people wanting serving on the bar and I was flustered so I just go on and serve the next customer.

    They then scheduled a meeting with the assistant manager and a H&R manager. In the meeting they told me that they have no other choice than to terminate my employment due to the decision of the general manager (Who really has it in for me for some reason).

    Then after the meeting the two assistant managers told me that I was being treated unfairly and that I should appeal and right a letter to the general manager telling him how I have been miss treated within 7 days. (This is the managers talking).

    I need some help writing the letter I have not clue how to argue my case.

    Any help would be appreciated.
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    I'm pretty sure you can be sacked at any point during the first twelve months without the same right to warnings, etc., that staff who have served that first twelve month period have. Therefore, there's not a lot of help available. Obviously if you're trying to appeal to their sense of reason, it's different. But really, how likely is it that they'll take you back?
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    Unfortunately, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Yes, it's unfair, but technically speaking, they have you stealing on camera which is gross misconduct and results in immediate termination of employment - thats in any company. Writing a letter might make you feel better, but if you have to call on them for a reference in the future it will do you more harm than good.

    Edit: The other thing is, those assistant managers obviously didn't stand up for you at the time, so the chances are that when the boss receives your letter the assistant managers won't agree with you then either. They have to protect their own jobs.
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    (Original post by LukeatForest)
    I'm pretty sure you can be sacked at any point during the first twelve months without the same right to warnings, etc., that staff who have served that first twelve month period have. Therefore, there's not a lot of help available. Obviously if you're trying to appeal to their sense of reason, it's different. But really, how likely is it that they'll take you back?
    Yeah a lot of part-time contracts have probationary period within them which basically give them the right to get rid of you without sufficient reason within the first few months.
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    Why would you even want to go back if you'd be working for an idiot manager who has already got it in for you?
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    Why would you even want to go back if you'd be working for an idiot manager who has already got it in for you?
    Well the truth is i'm in a real financial mess at the moment. I had a car accident a few weeks ago and need to pay for the voluntary excess etc...

    It couldn't have came at a worse time really...
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    (Original post by Tuppenny)
    Unfortunately, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Yes, it's unfair, but technically speaking, they have you stealing on camera which is gross misconduct and results in immediate termination of employment - thats in any company. Writing a letter might make you feel better, but if you have to call on them for a reference in the future it will do you more harm than good.

    Edit: The other thing is, those assistant managers obviously didn't stand up for you at the time, so the chances are that when the boss receives your letter the assistant managers won't agree with you then either. They have to protect their own jobs.
    Not really stealing, I made a mistake I never taken any money from the customers and my till was correct at the end of the night.
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    (Original post by Tuppenny)
    Unfortunately, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Yes, it's unfair, but technically speaking, they have you stealing on camera which is gross misconduct and results in immediate termination of employment - thats in any company. Writing a letter might make you feel better, but if you have to call on them for a reference in the future it will do you more harm than good.

    Edit: The other thing is, those assistant managers obviously didn't stand up for you at the time, so the chances are that when the boss receives your letter the assistant managers won't agree with you then either. They have to protect their own jobs.
    Legally speaking there's a massive difference between "theft" on the one hand and making a "bona fide mistake" on the other. One cannot commit a "fault based" crime if one lacks the mens rea for it.

    OP, if you write up your letter and send it to me in a PM I'll happily have a look over it for you.
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    (Original post by econ1)
    Not really stealing, I made a mistake I never taken any money from the customers and my till was correct at the end of the night.
    I know, and I know it wasn't your fault, but I mean stealing in the sense that you gave away free drinks - imagine if it was a friend of yours and you gave them a free drink, that would be a sackable offence straight away and the same principle applies here. Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side, I just think that writing them a letter won't make any difference because they can just say 'stealing = gross misconduct so tough'. It's really sucky and unfortunate, but I think you are better off trying to find something else quick than stewing over a job where you are just going to be treated horribly if you go back. Good luck, though
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    (Original post by Mr_Deeds)
    Legally speaking there's a massive difference between "theft" on the one hand and making a "bona fide mistake" on the other. One cannot commit a "fault based" crime if one lacks the mens rea for it.

    OP, if you write up your letter and send it to me in a PM I'll happily have a look over it for you.
    I agree, but having worked in numerous crappy jobs, I know that management are quite happy to ignore common sense when they think they've got the right jargon to do so. I don't think writing a letter will make any difference, and if it does, the OP will be treated like absolute crap when they go back. Best to find another job.
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    (Original post by Tuppenny)
    I agree, but having worked in numerous crappy jobs, I know that management are quite happy to ignore common sense when they think they've got the right jargon to do so. I don't think writing a letter will make any difference, and if it does, the OP will be treated like absolute crap when they go back. Best to find another job.
    I agree. But if management were to accuse the OP of theft when he has in fact made a perfectly legitimate mistake, regardless of their poor "jargon", I'd be inclined to suggest that, in his own right, he has a pretty decent shot at his own suit right there.
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    (Original post by Mr_Deeds)
    I agree. But if management were to accuse the OP of theft when he has in fact made a perfectly legitimate mistake, regardless of their poor "jargon", I'd be inclined to suggest that, in his own right, he has a pretty decent shot at his own suit right there.
    Well you know more about this than me, judging from the law studies! But it sounds like an awful lot of effort for a job that wasn't all that in the first place. And if they were willing to sack him for what is obviously a mistake, then if he gets the job back they will still be on the lookout for any legit oppurtunity to get rid of him again. It just doesn't seem worth the hassle.
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    (Original post by Mr_Deeds)
    Legally speaking there's a massive difference between "theft" on the one hand and making a "bona fide mistake" on the other. One cannot commit a "fault based" crime if one lacks the mens rea for it.

    OP, if you write up your letter and send it to me in a PM I'll happily have a look over it for you.
    I argued this in the interview that the offence had no mens rea, thus it cannot be treated as an offence.

    (Original post by Tuppenny)
    I know, and I know it wasn't your fault, but I mean stealing in the sense that you gave away free drinks - imagine if it was a friend of yours and you gave them a free drink, that would be a sackable offence straight away and the same principle applies here. Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side, I just think that writing them a letter won't make any difference because they can just say 'stealing = gross misconduct so tough'. It's really sucky and unfortunate, but I think you are better off trying to find something else quick than stewing over a job where you are just going to be treated horribly if you go back. Good luck, though
    I do agree with you to some extent I would get treated like crap if I did go back... I may hand my CV out again and look for another job fast. I may have some self respect left if I don't go crawling back pleading for my job back.
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    I don't think you were treated fairly. I was an assistant manager for Greggs at one point, and I know that if a general assistant had given food away and forgotten to take the money for it, but had never been in any trouble before (and had not had much experience yet), then they would not have been sacked - they would have been 'counselled' (first stage, or pre-stage even, of the disciplinary procedure), but not actually sacked. But your company may well be different, I suppose. I'd still write the letter anyway, but send a copy to the person above your manager or HR/Personnel departments, as well as your manager.
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    (Original post by econ1)
    I argued this in the interview that the offence had no mens rea, thus it cannot be treated as an offence.
    Unfortunately employers don't really need a good reason to dismiss emplyees who've worked for the company for <1 year.

    I may be inclined to enquire as to the extent to which this: "I was thrown on the bar (I have never been on before and not received any training or experience)" breaches your contract of employment though.
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    (Original post by Tuppenny)
    Well you know more about this than me, judging from the law studies! But it sounds like an awful lot of effort for a job that wasn't all that in the first place. And if they were willing to sack him for what is obviously a mistake, then if he gets the job back they will still be on the lookout for any legit oppurtunity to get rid of him again. It just doesn't seem worth the hassle.
    This is a really valid point and in an ideal world the OP would find himself another job (how easy this would be I'm not sure). It just seems pants that people get away with this stuff! But yes, pragmatically I agree with you completely.
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    (Original post by Mr_Deeds)
    Legally speaking there's a massive difference between "theft" on the one hand and making a "bona fide mistake" on the other. One cannot commit a "fault based" crime if one lacks the mens rea for it.

    OP, if you write up your letter and send it to me in a PM I'll happily have a look over it for you.
    Thanks soo much I will PM you it as soon as I have written it.

    Thanks again
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    Contact head office.

    Oh, and if you start getting legal on them (which isn't always relevant as gross misconduct usually breaches company conduct, not legislation), they could quite easily argue that mens rea does not apply in strict liability cases.
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    (Original post by Star Scream)
    Contact head office.

    Oh, and if you start getting legal on them (which isn't relevant as gross misconduct usually breaches company conduct, not legislation),they could quit easily argue that mens rea does not apply in strict liability cases.
    Theft is a fault based crime; one has to have the "intention to permanently deprive". It would be interesting to see them argue that theft is a strict liability offence, but only insofar as their legal counsel would be laughed out of court.
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    Though you may be able to wrangle your job back, surely you will just be got rid of at the next possible excuse, making me wonder if trying to get it back is worthwhile.
 
 
 
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