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    (Original post by Jayjayjay)
    Is that really true?

    The 'Western/Caucasian' world doesn't want to see them improve or become as good as them, keep the poor and ignorant poor and ignorant so the rich can be richer.
    How exactly does the western world keep caribbean countries down? I'm not saying that what you've said is a lie but it seems like you've just given your own opinion with no backing up. Non white countries such as Japan have been sucessful and I doubt the caucasian world is keeping them down. You'll have to be more convincing than that you've effectively just spread propaganda.

    I'm going to bed now. I'll check this thread later.
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    (Original post by Bishamon)
    The amount of misinformation you so willingly type. Are you generally that misinformed are are you just trolling me?

    First of all the Haitians, as we know it, were sent to the Island by the Spanish. Charles V began the draft and Africans were sent there via the cross atlantic slave trade routes. Unless you're talking about the Taino's (who are now mostly extinct) the current population were put there against their will. Also considering the lack of plate measurement technology back then I very much doubt they would have been aware of the environmental instabilities their nation had. You say move to other countries, is your logic that elementary? Population growth is almost unsustainable in its current form, how could the mass migration of over 10 million people be even remotely feasible.

    The past dictates the present and the present dictates the future. Yes, Britain may not be held in front of others for its contribution in the industrial revolution, but that period of intense economic growth has heavily aided Britains economic presence in the world today.
    I am not on about it's there own fault they settled there I'm saying we should not be encouraging people to stay in this kind of area.

    How is the repairing the lives of 10 million feasible? It's exactly the same but gives a longer term outcome.

    Yes but we don't go around going "we had the plague therefore you should be more lenient to our country" (I know other countries had it, I can't think of another example off my head.)

    So yeah please actually read my posts in future before accusing me of giving mis-information.
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    (Original post by Unknown?)
    Its cruel in the sense that they are kept alive, helped, only to continue living a very poor life on one of the worst places on earth. I thought I had pointed this out through out my posts.
    Your stupidity irritates me immensely, the internet is available, why not have a go at using it. Aristide was only removed in 2004, their curent president is still highly unpopular. For most of the latter stages of the 20th century the country as run by the duvalier family which ruled over the nation and turned it into a hermit kingdom blocking outside interaction. These people arent dogs and he road to economic and social recovery will be a long and hard one. The fact that you dismiss them, without seemingly little knowledge or understanding of the countries political and social complexities shows just how dumb you are.
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    (Original post by Rucklo)
    I am not on about it's there own fault they settled there I'm saying we should not be encouraging people to stay in this kind of area.

    How is the repairing the lives of 10 million feasible? It's exactly the same but gives a longer term outcome.

    Yes but we don't go around going "we had the plague therefore you should be more lenient to our country" (I know other countries had it, I can't think of another example off my head.)

    So yeah please actually read my posts in future before accusing me of giving mis-information.
    Southern Korea, a population of 48 million was able to turn itself around and become one of the richest nations today. It didnt happen overnight, in fact it took about forty years, but its possible. In a period of massive globalization, where many developing nations are seeing their most impressive periods of growth I wouldn't be so keen to write anyone off. The widespread infrastructural collapse could actually lead to new opportunities for real estate centric investments, one never knows.

    So many of your comments seem to be built upon a misplaced sense of nationalism which is both confused and juxtaposed. Britains economic growth of the past, has allowed to become a major global player in the present day. Haiti's lack of economic development and social insecurity has allowed it to become one of the worlds poorest nations today. It not hard, actions of the past can effect the present. Much of the aid being asked for now has little to do with "feeding one instead of teaching him to fish", but is more to do with providing essential aid which people on the ground need; food, digging equipment, temporary shelter etc etc. The logic some people here are trying to convey is perplexing, if you so an old lady on the street who happens to fall and asks you for help, do you tell her she shouldn't be out of her house in the first place and go your way?
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    (Original post by Bishamon)
    Southern Korea, a population of 48 million was able to turn itself around and become one of the richest nations today. It didnt happen overnight, in fact it took about forty years, but its possible. In a period of massive globalization, where many developing nations are seeing their most impressive periods of growth I wouldn't be so keen to write anyone off. The widespread infrastructural collapse could actually lead to new opportunities for real estate centric investments, one never knows.

    So many of your comments seem to be built upon a misplaced sense of nationalism which is both confused and juxtaposed. Britains economic growth of the past, has allowed to become a major global player in the present day. Haiti's lack of economic development and social insecurity has allowed it to become one of the worlds poorest nations today. It not hard, actions of the past can effect the present. Much of the aid being asked for now has little to do with "feeding one instead of teaching him to fish", but is more to do with providing essential aid which people on the ground need; food, digging equipment, temporary shelter etc etc. The logic some people here are trying to convey is perplexing, if you so an old lady on the street who happens to fall and asks you for help, do you tell her she shouldn't be out of her house in the first place and go your way?
    The fact is South Korea had SOME kind of structure before, it was not TOTALLY wrecked.

    Africa is a more better comparison I would say, and they have seemed to take it as aid is always going to be there so they don't try anymore in some cases.

    If you had a broken leg yourself, would you not sort that out first? The key to first aid is to make sure the person giving it is in a fit enough state first. We have people outside tonight freezing, if we didn't then fair enough go for it.

    And also, do you get her up and then let her slip 2 meters down the road or do you drive her to a safer place? You get them out of that place.
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    (Original post by Rucklo)
    The fact is South Korea had SOME kind of structure before, it was not TOTALLY wrecked.

    Africa is a more better comparison I would say, and they have seemed to take it as aid is always going to be there so they don't try anymore in some cases.

    If you had a broken leg yourself, would you not sort that out first? The key to first aid is to make sure the person giving it is in a fit enough state first. We have people outside tonight freezing, if we didn't then fair enough go for it.

    And also, do you get her up and then let her slip 2 meters down the road or do you drive her to a safer place? You get them out of that place.
    There are many african countries who are were experience a somewhat renaissance period in terms of economic growth, places like Angola, Tanzania, Ghana, Tunisia and South Africa. Nigeria only just paid off its multimillion dollar aid deficit recently, I question the benefit of aid seeing so many western nations seem all to keen to plow on the aid to poorer nations and then allow the interest to increase exponentially. Its actually kinda unfair when these countries then have to cut off vital parts of their domestic funds in order to pay debt incurred from aid which should of helped them. The fact you simply compare Haiti to other African countries already shows the height of your ignorance, considering how different Haiti is to most places I hardly see how it can be used to compare to a whole continent. The aid is meaningless, Haiti has had little in the way of investment due to the country being in such a social quagmire for so long. The dictatorship ended only recently and even their current leader lacks popularity.

    I find it amusing, you seem to know **** all about the country, yet feel the need to right it off so abruptly.
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    (Original post by Unknown?)
    Sorry If come across cold hearted buts its just the way I see the world. I understand that talking about the "value of a persons life" is a grey area but surely some existences are worth more than others? You yourself will likely lead a mucher better and happier and higher quality of life that most of the people in Haiti and if I had to choose between ten of them living and you then I would choose you. For example why do some parents choose to get in debt and send their children to private school? Because its a "better" life than what they had.

    If people of lesser fourtune want to continue their lives then they have every right to, I never said anything of actively seeking to wipe them out but if their life is so poor and you decide whether they live or die such as in the Haiti situation now caused by non human activity then how can you step in and stand on the high ground and interfere choosing to keep them alive? What makes your choice more moral and better than choosing to let them die? Maybe if they died they would be reincarnated into a happier life?
    Perhaps I went a little far in suggesting you'd actively want to wipe out anyone suffering the effects of poverty.

    However, I think you seriously need to go out there and do some research before you make such stupid posts. 'Standard of living' and 'happiness' are two distinctly different things.
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    (Original post by Mr.Singh)
    right, cool
    Please STFU, you act like you're so much better than that woman just because you have donated money.

    Did you donate the money to help the people of Haiti or to shove it down everyone elses throat? The whole point is it's meant to be a selfless act; one which you have chosen to do of your own accord, thus it isn't something you can boast about.

    Well done, you managed to donate £500 but you have to respect that there is a recession going on, not everyone will have expendable income and so literally cannot donate.
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    Haiti earned its freedom from colonial rule in 1804. Since then they have had time to build a proper countrySo the broader demogaphic should shoulder the burden of political incompetence? I think not.

    Speakingtheoretically, if you dwelled within a dilapidated infastructure would you fell content or bemoan international apathy.
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    Is giving aid to Haiti cruel???
    What planet do you live on? I can't believe that question is even being asked. We are one of the richest countries in the world. Who is going to help Haiti if we don't????
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    I find the flippant manner in which poverty is referenced by a disernable number in this tread rather macabre. Using a theoretical example to illustrate my point, if you're immediate family were deemed dispendable would that not provoke even a semblence of indignity .

    As a furtherence I am not nieve enough to assume that suffering can be eradicated, however citing inevitabilty isn't a valid justification of apathy in my opinion. I suspect quantifiable mortality is more of an attempt to salve our conscience citing forces beyong our control. It's no coincidence that inequality is propagated by those in a relatively opulent position.

    Financial aid has been the subject of sucrutiny granted. but surely making an attempt in good faith is prefable to nonchalance. Many people have the inclination without the means, this post isn't intended as an attack.
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    So the broader demogaphic should shoulder the burden of political incompetence? I think not.

    Speaking theoretically, if you dwelled within a dilapidated infastructure would you fell content or bemoan international apathy.[/QUOTE]
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    i completly disagree.. switch the situation round, how would you feel if no one came to the aid of us?
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    (Original post by Thomasmc135)
    Please STFU, you act like you're so much better than that woman just because you have donated money.

    Did you donate the money to help the people of Haiti or to shove it down everyone elses throat? The whole point is it's meant to be a selfless act; one which you have chosen to do of your own accord, thus it isn't something you can boast about.

    Well done, you managed to donate £500 but you have to respect that there is a recession going on, not everyone will have expendable income and so literally cannot donate.
    Did i ever mention i was better? Did i ever mention i had an expendable income (I stood in Warrington Town Centre for 2-3 hours a day instead of sitting on my backside watching TV to raise for a private charity that works in Haiti and Cuba) I have done this to help human beings that I'm sure if were in my situation would do the same. Dont you dare say iv done it for boasting rights. I was simply stating I had donated and raised money because she asked if I had raised money. People like us surely can give £2-3, like the majority did when i was collecting the donations. It wasn't people giving £1000 pound checks or anything, its just a simple gesture. I noticed people did chose to ignore me and my freinds while in the Town Centre because they rather spend that couple of quid on a pack of ****. It does disgust me and I am merly expressing this. So please stand back and try and put urself in the shoes of one of the 100,000's that have lost relatives. And I wont stfu, thats just unnecessary language.
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    (Original post by morg)
    i completly disagree.. switch the situation round, how would you feel if no one came to the aid of us?
    What makes you think that no one would help if the situation was switched around?
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    (Original post by Unknown?)
    This might upset people to hear this but I don't see the point in giving money to Hati because truthfully the country was a dump before the earthquake and I think no matter how much money you donate the people's quality of life is still going to be very poor. The country is flooded with crime, rape and murder and in light of the earthquake probably an increase in looting.

    It doesn't matter how much money you give, Haiti has recieved aid in the past because after decades of bad government allowing crime to go on, rape itself was only made a criminal offence in 2005 the crime becomes part of a country's culture and many people's way of life.

    What good is the aid we give them? We'll fix them up a little because the pictures of their suffering will make us feel bad and then we will leave only for the same problems to continue. Who wants to live like that? What kind of life are we leaving them in? If I lived on Haiti I would probably rather die than be barely kept alive only to live a life in a poorly built slum, poor education and live in a country filled with crime and poverty. Where's the happiness and purpose in my life? What have I got to look forward too?

    Do you think the money you donate today is going to help this little girl in Haiti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnklOtfJRSE ? Likely is it isn't, she's still going to be a slave.

    So tell me? How can you feel a sense of pride in donating a few pounds knowing your only helping continue the existence of these poor people? No matter what you do your efforts are fruitless, some things even money can't fix.


    they way I see it, we cant help everyone but we can try

    and if you know about WTO and EU subsidies, colonisation and american interference in the americas its really our fault
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    (Original post by Mr.Singh)
    Did i ever mention i was better? Did i ever mention i had an expendable income (I stood in Warrington Town Centre for 2-3 hours a day instead of sitting on my backside watching TV to raise for a private charity that works in Haiti and Cuba) I have done this to help human beings that I'm sure if were in my situation would do the same. Dont you dare say iv done it for boasting rights. I was simply stating I had donated and raised money because she asked if I had raised money. People like us surely can give £2-3, like the majority did when i was collecting the donations. It wasn't people giving £1000 pound checks or anything, its just a simple gesture. I noticed people did chose to ignore me and my freinds while in the Town Centre because they rather spend that couple of quid on a pack of ****. It does disgust me and I am merly expressing this. So please stand back and try and put urself in the shoes of one of the 100,000's that have lost relatives. And I wont stfu, thats just unnecessary language.
    STFU isn't what you think, the 'f' means flip, as I said it's good that you raised money as it should help provide aid and whatnot. However, I saw a few of your responses and it seemed that you thought that you were better for doing so. You have hounded her and it wasn't right, other people don't have the money nor the time to fundraise and you can't expect everyone to donate.

    Simple as.
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    I agree with your sentiment that even with aid donations, Haiti will still be poverty striken. However, part of human nature is to try and help people and nations when they are struck with a great natural tragedy.

    Also, I don't understand your 'cruel' implication, even if aid doesn't help those who really need it, it can't be cruel.
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    The disaster in Haiti has come about because of something that ordinary people could not do anything about. To say that their quality of life will be poor and therefore not worth helping is like refusing to help a disabled person who is not breathing because theire life is not a "good" as yours. Its your choice whether you want to give or not, but its not your choice to decide who lives and who dies because of the "quality" of their life.
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    (Original post by Thomasmc135)
    STFU isn't what you think, the 'f' means flip, as I said it's good that you raised money as it should help provide aid and whatnot. However, I saw a few of your responses and it seemed that you thought that you were better for doing so. You have hounded her and it wasn't right, other people don't have the money nor the time to fundraise and you can't expect everyone to donate.

    Simple as.
    lol dude u know what stfu stands for. lisen i was simply angerd by peoples responses 'their lives arn't as worthy as mine' this is obviously immoral and did enrage me, and when I get angry i do admitingly say things which maybe i shouldn't. I have appoligised to her, but now u can understand why I said. yeah no hard feelings mate, each to their own opinions, i wont enforce anything on anyone, I will just say my point.
 
 
 
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