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"One in five college women will be raped, or experience an attempted rape" watch

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    (Original post by Smoker)
    :p:

    I'm a bit of a feminist myself tbh. Nothing is more sickening than the violation of a woman.




    Well I guess its largely speculation on my part, based on that what common sense would dictate. I'm more likely to get an erection when I see a pair of breasts, than when I'm not looking at a pair of breasts. And people who are under the influence of alcohol and drugs are less able to mediate their actions than people who aren't under the influence. If you ready my first post, you see I said "If we were to do a study".

    Rape victims aren't a problem and nobody said they are. But rape exists. Rape has always existed. Rape can even be seen in wild animals. Rape is, I believe, the reason things like the head covering is prescribed in Islam. The objectification of women only heightens men's sexual tendencies, and whilst it is very important to let people know that crimes such as rape would be punishable to the maximum, nobody is standing there 24/7 with a tazer to prevent men from physically taking control of, and violating a woman. No word of advice or anything I say can be used to influence someone disgustiong enough to rape someone. But for any woman I care for, that would be my advice.
    But rape isn't about sexual desire. Rapists aren't just normal men that are just so turned on by seeing a scantily clad woman that they can't help themselves and have to have sex with them, whether the women like it or not. It seems pretty obvious that rape is about a lot more than that, and that rapists aren't going to care what their victim is wearing. They aren't going to target girls who are wearing less. Like O Ren (I think) said, rape is no rarer in muslim countries where women cover up.

    While personal safety is a massive thing, and of course all people, male and female, should be careful about how vulnerable they might be, this is not how we're going to stop rape. Rather, we have to take rape more seriously as a society, and give rape victims more support. At the moment shocking amounts of rape victims don't report their rape to the police, and we need to counter this by encouraging women to speak out and report cases to the police, meaning more rapists are convicted, and people are more aware of the crime.

    Because personal safety is only going to get you so far, especially since most rapes are commited by people the victim knows- boyfriends, husbands, dates, family- and in most of these cases covering up or watching how much you drink isn't going to be much help.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    What authority do you have to say what makes a rape more likely? Is this just pure speculation on your part? Is it actually statistically proven that clothing or alcohol consumption have anything to do with it?

    The rape victims are not the problem here, and the onus should not be on them to make sure they're not raped. If a man is mugged, nobody blames him for walking alone. Yet when it comes to rape victims, there's a bizzarre focus on the woman, and a pretense that she has some kind of responsibility for the rape.
    It's lucky we don't rely on natural selection anymore, or people with your attitude would have died out long ago. No, rape shouldn't happen. But it does. So use some ******* common sense and don't put yourself in a vulnerable position where it's easy to be raped.

    People need to stop using the "i should be able to wear slutty clothes, get hammered, and walk home alone without being raped!" line. We don't live in a perfect world, so do what you can to keep yourself safe.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Our justice systems ... how?
    These attitudes are all over the place. It's not just a small corner of society that's redundant- the people who think like this are just regular people. They're all over this forum, there's been several of them in this thread, and these people are students- are supposed to be our educated, intelligent future. So it's a pretty good bet that these attitudes are also prevalent in the police force (who themselves have admitted that loads of officers don't take rape seriously) and our judges and juries.


    (Original post by Smack)
    I have no imagination. Explain.
    Well, I can't, I didn't do the study. I don't need any further explanation for what inappropriate behaviour or disbelieving attitudes mean, but I'm not going to guess at specific examples of this when I didn't do the study. I'm sure you can find specific examples somewhere, if you want.



    (Original post by Smack)
    That's a very broad generalisation. I can assure you, many police forces do take rape seriously. The police force at that covers my old uni halls area did, for example. Although I'm not contending that some police forces do not take rape as seriously as it is.
    Some of the police taking rape seriously isn't really good enough for me, I'm afraid.
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    If the stats are in fact true..that is ALOT
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    These attitudes are all over the place. It's not just a small corner of society that's redundant- the people who think like this are just regular people. They're all over this forum, there's been several of them in this thread, and these people are students- are supposed to be our educated, intelligent future. So it's a pretty good bet that these attitudes are also prevalent in the police force (who themselves have admitted that loads of officers don't take rape seriously) and our judges and juries.
    Yes but how do you know that for sure? It's just your assumption. What evidence do you have for it?

    Well, I can't, I didn't do the study. I don't need any further explanation for what inappropriate behaviour or disbelieving attitudes mean, but I'm not going to guess at specific examples of this when I didn't do the study. I'm sure you can find specific examples somewhere, if you want.
    So for all you know, they could be bogus terms.
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    (Original post by C.C.G)
    It's lucky we don't rely on natural selection anymore, or people with your attitude would have died out long ago. No, rape shouldn't happen. But it does. So use some ******* common sense and don't put yourself in a vulnerable position where it's easy to be raped.

    People need to stop using the "i should be able to wear slutty clothes, get hammered, and walk home alone without being raped!" line. We don't live in a perfect world, so do what you can to keep yourself safe.
    Yeah, of course looking after yourself is important. I'm not suggesting women should put themselves in situations they know are dangerous. But the majority of rapes aren't caused by women walking home drunk, or wearing revealing clothes, this is such a misconception. Unless you're saying women should never let themselves be in a room alone with a man until they know them really well, or shouldn't let their date buy them drinks in case he slips something in it, or shouldn't argue with their boyfriend in private in case he turns nasty- well, there's just not much that women can do about their vulnerability in most cases. And there's a disturbing misconception that they can, and that this makes them somehow responsible for being raped.
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    (Original post by innerhollow)
    I accept that woman CAN reduce their risk of getting raped by sticking in groups, and by limiting alcohol consumption, but at the end of the day, the woman is not at fault if she gets raped.
    Well said, but there is also the problem here that people are assuming all rapes take place in the evening, in situations where alcohol is involved. This is often the case but definitely not always.

    I was almost raped once. It was about 3pm, on a weekday. I was wearing trousers and a blouse, and going down a fairly main road, but it just happened that no one else was around at that time. Since I wasn't dressed revealingly, not drunk, not out on my own in the dark and not in a situation I could have avoided (I was going home from work) I fail to see how it could have been my fault what had happened, had I not been lucky enough to get away.
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    (Original post by Smoker)
    Of course men shouldn't be raping women. Whilst its difficult to condition the behaviour of horny young men and their sexual tendencies, women who would prefer not to get raped when they're at college could protect themselves from getting hurt by taking simple precautions.

    A girl in a bikini and a mini skirt, drunk out of her face and sprawled all over a sofa during a house party is more likely to get raped than an equally good looking girl in jeans and a t-shirt, drinking as much as it makes sense to drink.
    I completely agree with your point about not drinking so much. When a woman is really drunk that signals to a potential rapist that she'll be easy to overpower/she might not even remember the rape/her story will never stand in court, and not only that, but drunk women are more likely to wander off by themselves and put themselves in positions of danger. Also, when a guy makes a move on a drunk woman she might respond positively with kissing and 'mmm' noises even if she doesn't want to go all the way with him. The man might misinterpret this as the woman definitely wanting to have sex, and he might then undress her and have sex with her while she is having a complete black out. She snaps out of it to find she is being penetrated and is obviously terrified.

    However, I think you should be careful not to sound like you're saying 'it's women's fault they get raped cos they were drunk', it's much more fair to say something like 'many women are unaware of the effects alcohol has on them and put themselves into ridiculously dangerous situations'. Not only that, but it's alcohol in the rapists blood that makes rape more likely to occur (remember reading that stat on wikipedia, and it was sourced). Either because he's a genuine sadistic rapist and the alcohol makes him more willing to take the risk and go for it, or because he's an idiot and thinks just because a woman is kissing him he can **** her without making sure it's what she wants and that she's not blacked out.

    Your point about how the woman dresses is not valid in the case of the sadistic rapist: sadistic rape doesn't occur when a horny guy sees a hot girl and can't control himself, they rape to have control and power over the woman (or man!). This is why 90 year old women get raped in graveyerds when they go to visit their dead husbands graves. It probably would affect the stupid type rape though, as if a woman is dressed a certain way it might make the guy more likely to assume she wants to have sex with him and not check and make sure she's not falling in and out of consciousness.

    Anyway, yes lots of women do stupid things to increase their chances of rape. But when it comes down to it, the man is the one who rapes. We need to make both genders aware of what might happen to them/what they might do when drunk. It's also important to remember that false accusation happens in the minority of cases.

    The majority of women (and men who get raped) will go on to attempt suicide because they are so traumatised. A little more respect please to the victims of this heinous crime (that wasn't just to you, but most of them men posting)
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    (Original post by c101)
    If the stats are in fact true..that is ALOT
    That's just at college. Surveys of women of all ages put the number at more like a third to a half.
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    I know you're all speaking as dilligent adults and alls well and good but you can't change society by words so there's not much to discuss in the matter.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Yes but how do you know that for sure? It's just your assumption. What evidence do you have for it?
    Well, we know that a certain percentage of society has this attitude towards rape, right? You yourself have admitted this. We can see it in this thread, if anything. Say, hypothetically, it's 10% (I'm not saying this is accurate). If 10% of society has this attitude towards rape, then it's just common sense that 10% of the justice system have this attitude- or 10% of any profession or industry. There's nothing to suggest that people with this attitudes are less likely to go into the justice system, which means that the probability is that there are some of them in the justice system. It's not assumption, it's maths.


    (Original post by Smack)
    So for all you know, they could be bogus terms.
    It's a reputable study by Her Majesty's Chief Inspectorate and Her Majesty's Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate. There's no reason to think it's a bogus study. You can't just dismiss evidence and say 'oh well it might be lies'.


    I'm going to stop replying to you now, because you're clearly just disputing what I say for the sake of it, rather than because you actually believe I'm wrong. Maybe you want to believe society is great with dealing with rape, but the overwhelming evidence is that society lets rape victims down. I'm not sure why you're so determined and defensive in trying to prove otherwise.
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    (Original post by UGeNe)
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/12/15...ses/index.html

    So why go there in the first place?
    I'm not female and I don't want to go to a US college.

    Why would it apply to the majoritory of TSR users?
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    Wow.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    But rape isn't about sexual desire. Rapists aren't just normal men that are just so turned on by seeing a scantily clad woman that they can't help themselves and have to have sex with them, whether the women like it or not. It seems pretty obvious that rape is about a lot more than that, and that rapists aren't going to care what their victim is wearing. They aren't going to target girls who are wearing less. Like O Ren (I think) said, rape is no rarer in muslim countries where women cover up.

    While personal safety is a massive thing, and of course all people, male and female, should be careful about how vulnerable they might be, this is not how we're going to stop rape. Rather, we have to take rape more seriously as a society, and give rape victims more support. At the moment shocking amounts of rape victims don't report their rape to the police, and we need to counter this by encouraging women to speak out and report cases to the police, meaning more rapists are convicted, and people are more aware of the crime.

    Because personal safety is only going to get you so far, especially since most rapes are commited by people the victim knows- boyfriends, husbands, dates, family- and in most of these cases covering up or watching how much you drink isn't going to be much help.
    I agree that rape is most certainly not a simple state of affairs, and the mentality of someone who rapes is much more twisted and complex than simple raw sexual desire, you can't deny that an element of sexual desire isn't present in all rape scenarios in which women are violated by men. I do however think, that rape would have a connection with how scantilly clad the woman was to begin with. The hormonal changes when a man is confronted with something he desires is undeniable, and the rapists at question here are indeed men, however twisted they may be.

    Rape in countries such as Afghanistan most certainly exists, possibly to a much higher degree than in the west. The social climates of Afghanistan and America however are undeniably different, and this plays are large role in how many people are raped; Afghanistan probably being comparable to medieval England. I'm sure if a woman were to walk around in hotpants in some of the more disgusting Taliban regions of Afghanistan, she'd be more likely to be raped or stoned or whatever. This isn't in accordance with the views of Islam, but the views of the Taliban. Islam prescribes capital punishment for all rapists who carry out the unforgivable crime.

    Support of rape victims is certainly of paramount importance, there can't be anything more life-destroying than being raped. All cases of rape should be reported, though its understandable that the emotional trauma one endures would make doing anything at all about it very difficult. The sanctions for rapists really ought to be much stricter. At the same time, we can't deny that a small percentage of women who are raped were victims of unprovoked crime, and whilst this doesn't make the crime any more justifiable, it might explain the woman's reluctance to take the issue into the hands of the law.

    Whilst it is true that most rapes are carried out by people who know the victim, the cases expressed in the college scenario of the article are more in the presence of strangers and partners than family members. Someone under the influence of alcohol is less likely to be able to take precautions to prevent themselves from failling into difficult situations - While this isn't going to stop someone from committing a rape, it could potentially enable someone to run away to a safe place.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Well, we know that a certain percentage of society has this attitude towards rape, right? You yourself have admitted this. We can see it in this thread, if anything. Say, hypothetically, it's 10% (I'm not saying this is accurate). If 10% of society has this attitude towards rape, then it's just common sense that 10% of the justice system have this attitude- or 10% of any profession or industry. There's nothing to suggest that people with this attitudes are less likely to go into the justice system, which means that the probability is that there are some of them in the justice system. It's not assumption, it's maths.
    There is a lot to suggest that such attitudes cannot get into the justice system, actually. I mean, quite a lot of society still hates gays. Say, 50%. Would you then argue that 50% of all judges are homophobic? See, that's your logic in your assertion.

    A far better way of proving your point would be to point out cases in which there has been clear evidence of rape by the accused, but did not result in a conviction.

    It's a reputable study by Her Majesty's Chief Inspectorate and Her Majesty's Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate. There's no reason to think it's a bogus study. You can't just dismiss evidence and say 'oh well it might be lies'.
    I didn't say it's a bogus study, that's another strawman by yourself, I said that for all you know those terms could be bogus terms. I mean, you yourself don't even have a clue on what they mean. All I want to know is what they mean!

    I'm going to stop replying to you now, because you're clearly just disputing what I say for the sake of it, rather than because you actually believe I'm wrong. Maybe you want to believe society is great with dealing with rape, but the overwhelming evidence is that society lets rape victims down. I'm not sure why you're so determined and defensive in trying to prove otherwise.
    Uh, how exactly does society as a whole let rape victims down? Heck, what business of society as a whole is it?
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    (Original post by UGeNe)
    If you were to visit a women’s studies department at an elite university, you would encounter a wide variety of courses on the sexual liberation of women. The main thrust of these courses is that for too long, various social institutions have prevented women from exploring their sexual desires. Now, women have been partially freed from the oppressive forces of male patriarchy. In other words, young women are encouraged to be whores.

    :yes:
    Looking at america, and what alot of it is based on, what you say makes tonnes of sense.
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    The government should make a new law- castrate men who is convicted of rape.
    I'm a lad myself but I know what's wrong and whats right.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Uh, how exactly does society as a whole let rape victims down? Heck, what business of society as a whole is it?
    In the ways I've explained in my posts, I suggest you read them again.
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    (Original post by UGeNe)
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/12/15...ses/index.html

    So why go there in the first place?
    one in five women have a rape fantasy.
    the odds are goooooood.
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    'missygeorgia' has made some really good posts which I wholeheartedly agree with, so I won't reiterate them.
 
 
 
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