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    (Original post by moh2009)
    More than welcome. And no it wasnt difficult, seeing that I was writing in the form previous the post before last.
    Back to the matter in hand, why does receiving a Nobel Peace Prize dictate whether the Muslim community past or present is serving society?
    Without offending you, surely you can see that hmm Einstein's Theory of Relativity was based around the variation of speed from different relative points. This concept required algebra and mathematics which were founded by a Muslim. That disproves your point. Can you not see that?
    Now if I move away from the Muslim line of argument, there have been plenty of scientists who have not been credited with their discoveries. Such is the case in the field of Genetics and discovery of DNA.
    You have with or without realising generalized that all Muslim nations and are unintelligent and incapable of certain achievements? By suggesting they cannot make their own nuclear weapons, which surely they can. Because Iran certainly didnt buy it off UK/USA/ Russia? this disproves your point.

    I'd love to keep disproving your invalid points but some of us have got to get into medschool (Y)

    I wish you a good day and hope you open your eyes to whats happening and not just regurgitate your daily digest of the tabloids.

    End of the day. We all just have to get along.
    I don't read the tabloids you fool, I am a Times reader. Algebra and Mathematics as concepts were around before Islam was even a twinkle in Mo Mos eye. That is like me chalking up everything that ancient Greece did to Christians. I think the people who live in Muslim countries are perfectly capable, I do not think that Islam fosters the environment for advanced learning.
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    laws are made by humans-humans make mistake.that whats make us human-our lord ALLAH is eternal knows everything and give a guide and best example to follow in form of our beloved Prophet(s.a.w)
    the verdict of ALLAH is perfect with no flaws thus everyone should follow it,atleast try ,and if there is a mistake repend for it surely ALLAH is the forgiving.

    WE RESPECT JESUS THE SAME WAY AS HOLY PROPHET PBUH.

    iran has its own culture.they are not implementing religion in the true esence=they are doing a mistake-very human.
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    (Original post by _mimi_)
    :facepalm:
    So you are telling me that most muslims are extremists and the only reason that we are still alive is because they dont have the power to kill us?
    no. you said something along the lines of "if all muslims were violent wed be dead by now"
    i cant remember exactly what.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    People have highlighted the verses to you that prove Islam is not peaceful, you have denied them and said that isn't how it works in practice. So they have shown you Muslim states where such verses have worked their way into being laws that govern the country. So you claim that the people don't behave like this? That is patently untrue. They are the ones burning the churches, and blowing themselves up in the name of Allah. Governments are generally just a manifestation of what the people want. Iran became what it is today because of the peoples will. Similarly Russia is no longer communist because the people did not want that. If the way Muslim states behaved conflicted massively with what the people wanted then it would have been changed by now.
    These versus should be interpreted by scholars, not experienced TSR users.

    No, I didn't say people don't behave like this, I said there are good and bad people in every ethnic and religious group, and if all muslims were like this, the world would be in shambles, right?

    Yes, there are people who terrible burn down churches or whatnot, but there are also people who burn Qur'ans.

    Governments are generally a manifestation of what people want? Are you serious? :p: I disagree with you completely there. The nazis weren't elected because everyone believe that non-whites, homosexuals etc should be killed. They were practically tricked into voting for them, because they thought their financial problems would be solved etc.

    And no, I disagree with you again there. A lot of these countries are poor, people can barely put food in their mouths. I don't think they'd have enough power to mould their government into their utopian one.
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    lizia-dear there is no where in your gospel that jesus married?why do christians do that? and there is no topic of divorce in gospels.then why the divorce rates are the highest in west?
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    (Original post by Lizia)
    It's quite clearly stated that he consummated the marriage when she was nine. So to claim marriage back then didn't involve child abuse is ridiculous.
    I have also read on many sources to show that these rumours could have easily been spread to damage the reputation of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh).

    I also believe that Mary was impregnanted at 13.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I don't read the tabloids you fool, I am a Times reader. Algebra and Mathematics as concepts were around before Islam was even a twinkle in Mo Mos eye. That is like me chalking up everything that ancient Greece did to Christians. I think the people who live in Muslim countries are perfectly capable, I do not think that Islam fosters the environment for advanced learning.
    Agreed. Mathematics was around before. Algebra was a concept understood and taught first by a Muslim.

    Like I said. You're gonna have your views. I'll have mine. It sums up the debate. End of the day, we'll have to get along.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    This is not a persecution of Islam, it is a pragmatic form of goverment intervention.

    EDIT: if France was being disrespectful and intolerant of Islam they would ban the practice alltogether.
    Government intervention will ALWAYS lead to failure.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    Just because there are rules doesn't mean that these rules are unfair.

    By disrespecting, you mean disagreeing with? By fighting (metaphor :rolleyes: ) for wearing religious garments, you are not disrespecting anyone's culture etc.
    The rules are there for a reason. France has every right to create the rules. If you're against it, you have the right to leave.

    'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

    'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

    'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

    'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

    'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

    'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

    'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'
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    (Original post by paronomase)
    What happened is completely normal, I do not understand why there are so many threads on TSR about it...
    Seriously, how would people look at a French woman if she went into a mosque with a miniskirt and a provocative top? Would people say " She is allowed to wear what she wants to wear..."?
    Honestly no, some people would tell her to cover her body, or simply go out of the mosque.

    It is the same thing here in France. either people obey France's LAW and CULTURE, either they just leave. They cannot hope to come into France and change what has been established since centuries.
    The real problem here is the burqa, or I don't know how u call the clothes that cover up all your face. It is against the law, because you cannot be identified at anytime, it is against the religious customs in France, that is it is a non-specifically religious country, it is a disgrace for all people who fought against female oppression, and the one that covers up all the face is not even a must in the Qu'ran.
    You cannot be a French citizen if you do not respect such things. And we do not want such people. If they think that they cannot cope with our culture and traditions, well then we shall ask them to return to their country.

    I think that muslims are being a little bit too confident here...after ruining the "social security" systems with their 10-12children, and hundreds of thousands of governmental aids. It is time for French politicians to tackle the problem of immigration a bit more severely here, we cannot tolerate such acts.
    What about wearing a mini-skirt in a church? I wonder if Carla Bruni prepared to show her tits out in a church. You would not, show your tits or wear a mini skirt in a church. How is a mosque any different?

    Wearing mini-skirts, no knickers, showing off your tits was the norm in 1785 Catholic France. It was a custom and a tradition that still exists today. Fashion has not even changed. Gok Wan is one happy fella.

    You can ban burqa. Covering one's face is unIslamic. Islam does not promote covering your face with a veil. The prophet even said, that by showing your face, you recognise them and know who they are, facial expression, a common understanding between people when communicating etc... All the Quran says is dress modestly.
    It is stricter for men than for women.
    The headscarf, is alright, I think. It is the same reason why a nun wears it, really.

    What about the bavaclava?

    I am just highlighting a point here...
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    The rules are there for a reason. France has every right to create the rules. If you're against it, you have the right to leave.
    I agree with that, what I am not going to say is that these rules are fair, they're clearly not.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    Yep. Agreed with Mr Orange. No one asked for Muslims to come to the west.
    In the case of France, the majority of the muslims living there have their roots from algeria , morrocco , tunisia and the reason they are there is because of colonial reason. No one told France to take over those countries. If you mess up their countries, then eventually it will come back to bite you.
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    (Original post by yunghamz)
    In the case of France, the majority of the muslims living there have their roots from algeria , morrocco , tunisia and the reason they are there is because of colonial reason. No one told France to take over those countries. If you mess up their countries, then eventually it will come back to bite you.
    Agreed. I don't agree with the "bite you" part but the rest, it's true. Stop stealing everyonelse's resources people!
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    (Original post by notepad)
    I agree with that, what I am not going to say is that these rules are fair, they're clearly not.
    Why are they not fair?

    You DON'T need to cover your face.
    You CAN live without covering your face.

    If God exists then he wouldn't care whether you covered your face all of your life or not.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    These versus should be interpreted by scholars, not experienced TSR users.

    No, I didn't say people don't behave like this, I said there are good and bad people in every ethnic and religious group, and if all muslims were like this, the world would be in shambles, right?

    Yes, there are people who terrible burn down churches or whatnot, but there are also people who burn Qur'ans.

    Governments are generally a manifestation of what people want? Are you serious? I disagree with you completely there. The nazis weren't elected because everyone believe that non-whites, homosexuals etc should be killed. They were practically tricked into voting for them, because they thought their financial problems would be solved etc.

    And no, I disagree with you again there. A lot of these countries are poor, people can barely put food in their mouths. I don't think they'd have enough power to mould their government into their utopian one.
    Although there are nutters in every group of people, there are far more nutters in Islam. Just compare the terrorist attrocities between Islam and any other religion and you will see this for yourself. And you put a lot of faith in Muslim scholars, but do you not think it was Muslim scholars who interpreted the scripture to build the Muslim states? It is ridiculous to claim that every manifestation of Islam at the state level on the planet is wrong according to the Quaran.
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    tell me wearing a burqa is as harmfull then driving a car while you are drunk?
    girls in france wear miniskirts beacause they feel comfortable in it.muslim women should be allowed burqa beacause they feel comfortbale in it.

    france has its own culture you cannot impose it on them.muslims are a integral part of french society and have high positions ,all fractions should be taken along when a law has to be made.
    france is a great place but by isolating muslims in the society and make them feel that they are a threat to the country would ripen anger and create more problems
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    Why are they not fair?

    You DON'T need to cover your face.
    You CAN live without covering your face.

    If God exists then he wouldn't care whether you covered your face all of your life or not.
    I am talking about the hijab.

    Where did you get that from? Why wouldn't God care? :p: I don't even see your point at all here.

    Bottom-line, they should leave if they want to/they have the right to, but the 'rules' are still unfair. The main reason they are 'here in the west' is because you screwed over their countries. We're losing our freedom every second ...

    I must go now, sorry guys, enjoy your day.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    Agreed. I don't agree with the "bite you" part but the rest, it's true. Stop stealing everyonelse's resources people!
    Lol i wasn't stealing anyone's resources, just read the first page and went straight to comment, "bite you" part its just effects of colonialism e.g mass immigration
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    (Original post by notepad)
    Stop stealing everyonelse's resources people!
    What, like Dubai absolutely pillaging the plight of people who live in absolute squalor?
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    (Original post by notepad)
    I have also read on many sources to show that these rumours could have easily been spread to damage the reputation of the prophet Muhammed (pbuh).

    I also believe that Mary was impregnanted at 13.
    There is a massive difference between 9 and 13. If Aisha was ripe at the age Mohammed took her then she surely would have had a child, would she not? But she didn't.
 
 
 
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