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France moves closer to banning full Muslim veil!!! watch

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    They're only banning the face covering which is not compulsory for Muslims.
    When western people travel to Muslim countries they are not allowed to drink, in many countries are not allowed to practice any religion but Islam, must cover themselves respectfully (legs, shoulders etc), and have to abide by a law which is very much influenced by the teachings of the Muslim religion. I don't disagree with that, but then how can Muslims argue when they have to abide by western laws influenced by western values?
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    (Original post by becomingbindy)
    They're only banning the face covering which is not compulsory for Muslims.
    When western people travel to Muslim countries they are not allowed to drink, in many countries are not allowed to practice any religion but Islam, must cover themselves respectfully (legs, shoulders etc), and have to abide by a law which is very much influenced by the teachings of the Muslim religion. I don't disagree with that, but then how can Muslims argue when they have to abide by western laws influenced by western values?
    Because there are so many people here in the west who think that we should adapt to imigrants and not the opposite. Don't ask me where the hell they got their brain from, a dumpster perhaps.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    This is not a persecution of Islam, it is a pragmatic form of goverment intervention.

    EDIT: if France was being disrespectful and intolerant of Islam they would ban the practice alltogether.
    had me laughing there...hijab is PART of Islamic practice!
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    (Original post by dfjr)
    The thing is the burqua isn't compulsory. And if you don't ban the burqua you can't sort out the girls who want to wear the burqua or the ones forced to by their parents. So it's a difficult problem really. Most young people wouldn't really want to wear the burqua even if they're pretty strong muslims. Also there is racial discrimination against those wearing burquas and it may be slightly unfair if children are made to wear the burqua even if they don't want to and are abused for it.

    It's going to lead to some muslim women now not leaving the house as they won't feel comfortable going out without the veil. That's the sad thing about it.

    Now if France banned the headscarf, that would be very wrong. But I don't think they'll do that. Having said that part of me thinks that France doesn't really have a right to impose such restrictions but since they are or going to, I hope they are doing it for positive reasons (e.g. protecting young muslim girls) rather than for more negative reasons (e.g. don't like the idea of women wondering around with a full veil, think it looks untrustworthy).
    exactly! Banning burqua isn't much of a big deal. I am talking about hijab, the head scarf. That won't be fair since that is a must in Islam.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    had me laughing there...hijab is PART of Islamic practice!
    i was under the impression that it was just niqabs and burqas that they were legislating against
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    exactly! Banning burqua isn't much of a big deal. I am talking about hijab, the head scarf. That won't be fair since that is a must in Islam.
    have you actually read the article you posted?
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    What about the anti-Semitism a lot of Muslims show? You would not allow a Jew to go to an Islamic country without being hated. Just look at the middle east conflict.
    Also, what about Mecca? Non Muslims cannot visit Mecca, nor can Churches be built in Mecca, when there are mosques appearing everywhere in the UK.
    If a country is kind enough to let you in, you do not disrespect the values and culture of that country by forcing your religion onto them. You follow the values of that country. A bit hypocritical if you ask me, you do all you can to move to the west, yet you hate the west and try to change it?
    Double standards isn't it? White Europeans don't flock to live in Islamic countries and try to change them, and if they did, you would be the first to complain. You are lucky we are very tolerant in Europe.

    Totally agree with everything said in this post and second it!
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    (Original post by dfjr)
    And if you don't ban the burqua you can't sort out the girls who want to wear the burqua or the ones forced to by their parents.
    You could pretty much ban anything on that basis though.
    What if a some girls' parents were forcing them to wear long trousers, and refused to let her go out in a skirt or anything which displays her legs? What are you going to do, ban trousers?

    That's just what parents do - they often insist that their child behaves in a certain way, even if the child prefers otherwise. It's part of their job, isn't it?
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    What about the anti-Semitism a lot of Muslims show? You would not allow a Jew to go to an Islamic country without being hated. Just look at the middle east conflict.
    Also, what about Mecca? Non Muslims cannot visit Mecca, nor can Churches be built in Mecca, when there are mosques appearing everywhere in the UK.
    If a country is kind enough to let you in, you do not disrespect the values and culture of that country by forcing your religion onto them. You follow the values of that country. A bit hypocritical if you ask me, you do all you can to move to the west, yet you hate the west and try to change it?
    Double standards isn't it? White Europeans don't flock to live in Islamic countries and try to change them, and if they did, you would be the first to complain. You are lucky we are very tolerant in Europe.
    What so basically you're saying that we should behave like intolerant, backwards and religiously fundamentalist countries like Saudi?
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    What about the anti-Semitism a lot of Muslims show? You would not allow a Jew to go to an Islamic country without being hated. Just look at the middle east conflict.
    Also, what about Mecca? Non Muslims cannot visit Mecca, nor can Churches be built in Mecca, when there are mosques appearing everywhere in the UK.
    If a country is kind enough to let you in, you do not disrespect the values and culture of that country by forcing your religion onto them. You follow the values of that country. A bit hypocritical if you ask me, you do all you can to move to the west, yet you hate the west and try to change it?
    Double standards isn't it? White Europeans don't flock to live in Islamic countries and try to change them, and if they did, you would be the first to complain. You are lucky we are very tolerant in Europe.
    **** you! How do you know we don't say the EXACT SAME THING about you lot?
    FYI u ignorant little pest, not only are churces not allowed to be bulit INSIDE Mecca, but also mosks. Mecca IS like one HUGE entire mosk, so how can you build something INSIDE mecca when itself is a mosK?
    And let me tell u a short story of what happened before. There was this Caliph called Abu Bakr al Sadeeq. He was the Prophet's (PBUH) best friend and one day went to visit in a Chrisitan country. He went inside the church and welcomed him and everything. Then he exucused himself to go pray, and one of the popes told him to pray inside the church. The Caliph refused. The pope was offended in a way and asked for a reason. The Caliph smiled at him and told him that he simply didn't want to pray inside the church because if HE DID, then once he dies, he knows that his Muslim companions would bulit a mosk in a place he prayed and so he did not want the church to be destroyed or having a mosk built on it.
    See HOW LOYAL AND SINCERE THEY WERE BEFORE?
    And so the Caliph went and prayed outside the church and infact after he died, his Muslim friends bulit a mosk there, and so it was next to the church. It is in a county now that I have forgotten where the mosk and church are next to each other.
    Thing is, LOOK AT HOW FAITHFUL the Caliph was of other religions!
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    (Original post by becomingbindy)
    They're only banning the face covering which is not compulsory for Muslims.
    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    Banning burqua isn't much of a big deal. I am talking about hijab, the head scarf. That won't be fair since that is a must in Islam.
    Some Muslim women do believe it is compulsory to cover their faces. Even if it is not compulsory in mainstream Islam, it is still a religious obligation in the minds of these Muslim women.

    So it's hardly useful to point out that "the burqa isn't necessary in Islam", because these women are following an interpretation of Islam in which the burqa is necessary.

    If they believe God wants them to cover their faces, we can't really go up to them and say "No, you don't believe that!" They can believe what they like
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    I agree with the French. It is France they are entitled to protect their culture from hostile influences. There is no obligation on France to be passive in the face of agents of other cultures working to shape the social space of France. The French are admirable for making a stand for their culture and I would certainly vote for any party in the UK offering the same within a heartbeat.

    I also think a lot of foreigners and ethnics confuse the values of the enlightenment with the values of Europe. There was a Europe before the propagation of "human rights" and there will be a Europe after it has gone. The essential argument of human rights or of ethnics in this thread is essentially that the "rights" of the individual take precedence over the rights of a society. A society is a living, breathing organic being - it lives in the hearts of many of us - it suggests which foods we eat, what language we frame our thoughts in, how we feel about social transgressions...the individual is only a vehicle for culture. We are defined by our culture, not by a personal identity transcending thus.

    Culture must take precedence, and veils must be eradicated. Vive la France =)
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    i was under the impression that it was just niqabs and burqas that they were legislating against
    niqabs and burqas are the same thing first of all. and if they ban it, it won't be much of a big issue. France is considering to ban hijab as well, and if that happens, that will be a problem, since hijab is part of Islamic dress code and that is my concern. Clear on that?
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    (Original post by RyanT)
    I agree with the French. It is France they are entitled to protect their culture from hostile influences. There is no obligation on France to be passive in the face of agents of other cultures working to shape the social space of France. The French are admirable for making a stand for their culture and I would certainly vote for any party in the UK offering the same within a heartbeat.

    I also think a lot of foreigners and ethnics confuse the values of the enlightenment with the values of Europe. There was a Europe before the propagation of "human rights" and there will be a Europe after it has gone. The essential argument of human rights or of ethnics in this thread is essentially that the "rights" of the individual take precedence over the rights of a society. A society is a living, breathing organic being - it lives in the hearts of many of us - it suggests which foods we eat, what language we frame our thoughts in, how we feel about social transgressions...the individual is only a vehicle for culture. We are defined by our culture, not by a personal identity transcending thus.

    Culture must take precedence, and veils must be eradicated. Vive la France =)
    This is a fantastic post...however I fail to see what this ban will achieve, Burqas aren't even that common in France anway.

    It is more useful fighting this sort of behaviour......
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...emed-play.html
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    **** you! How do you know we don't say the EXACT SAME THING about you lot?
    FYI u ignorant little pest, not only are churces not allowed to be bulit INSIDE Mecca, but also mosks. Mecca IS like one HUGE entire mosk, so how can you build something INSIDE mecca when itself is a mosK?
    And let me tell u a short story of what happened before. There was this Caliph called Abu Bakr al Sadeeq. He was the Prophet's (PBUH) best friend and one day went to visit in a Chrisitan country. He went inside the church and welcomed him and everything. Then he exucused himself to go pray, and one of the popes told him to pray inside the church. The Caliph refused. The pope was offended in a way and asked for a reason. The Caliph smiled at him and told him that he simply didn't want to pray inside the church because if HE DID, then once he dies, he knows that his Muslim companions would bulit a mosk in a place he prayed and so he did not want the church to be destroyed or having a mosk built on it.
    See HOW LOYAL AND SINCERE THEY WERE BEFORE?
    And so the Caliph went and prayed outside the church and infact after he died, his Muslim friends bulit a mosk there, and so it was next to the church. It is in a county now that I have forgotten where the mosk and church are next to each other.
    Thing is, LOOK AT HOW FAITHFUL the Caliph was of other religions!
    WTG using a story to "prove" how tolerant muslims are
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    (Original post by cucumber sandwich)
    have you actually read the article you posted?
    goodness gracious! France IS considering banning the hijab as well! THAT is when the problem will start. HOW MANY TIMES MUST I REPEAT MYSELF????????????????
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    (Original post by RyanT)
    I agree with the French. It is France they are entitled to protect their culture from hostile influences. There is no obligation on France to be passive in the face of agents of other cultures working to shape the social space of France. The French are admirable for making a stand for their culture and I would certainly vote for any party in the UK offering the same within a heartbeat.

    I also think a lot of foreigners and ethnics confuse the values of the enlightenment with the values of Europe. There was a Europe before the propagation of "human rights" and there will be a Europe after it has gone. The essential argument of human rights or of ethnics in this thread is essentially that the "rights" of the individual take precedence over the rights of a society. A society is a living, breathing organic being - it lives in the hearts of many of us - it suggests which foods we eat, what language we frame our thoughts in, how we feel about social transgressions...the individual is only a vehicle for culture. We are defined by our culture, not by a personal identity transcending thus.

    Culture must take precedence, and veils must be eradicated. Vive la France =)
    :yes:
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    goodness gracious! France IS considering banning the hijab as well! THAT is when the problem will start. HOW MANY TIMES MUST I REPEAT MYSELF????????????????
    Calm down and ease off on the capitals
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    I don't agree with prescribing what private citizen can and can not wear in the street however I do think that jobs in public office which have a dress code should not bend the rules to accommodate 'religious' dress codes. I also think that private companies which have a dress code should also have the right to enforce a dress code.

    By getting rid of laws which bend the rules for every Tom, **** and Harry you send out a message to the rest of the world, yes we are happy to have you in our country provided you are willing to integrate and embrace our culture rather than saying yes we want you at all costs anything goes. I think this way you'll get less people wanting to come to the country (obviously to take advantage of its prosperity which comes on the back of its culture and core beliefs) but at the same criticize it and try and impose rules which applied in the countries they came from.

    If immigrants coming to your country come on the pretense that they are conditionally welcome on the fact that they believe in the core principals of the society and are willing to integrate rather than just form a segregated community within your country then I think you'd have a lot less tension and feeling of resentment between immigrants and the people of the country.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    goodness gracious! France IS considering banning the hijab as well! THAT is when the problem will start. HOW MANY TIMES MUST I REPEAT MYSELF????????????????
    Don't blow yourself up over it, jeez.
 
 
 
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