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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Oh, and in order to appease men, women should cover their heads in a bag?
    Not all women in Islamic countries wear religious attire, some dress similar to western women. Women who do wear hijabs/niqabs if you ask them, do it primarily to gain the pleasure and approval of God. Had the objectification of women been as prevalent in Muslim societies as they are in Western ones, the fashion industries would've had a more prominent role there

    Why don't they just maul their faces with acid whilst they're at it, that'd certainly appease them. And really that article does nothing to defend your position; it states that women also think about sex five times a day. Surely that's enough for men to worry that they're not being taken seriously and therefore cover their head with a bag?
    Yes that wasn't my argument though, of course women think about sex, they're only human. However it's no where near the average amount of times men think about it. Men are very different in this regard, biologically, chemically and psychologically.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    It doesn't make sense because Allah is the figment of an overactive Arabian imagination.
    Lol I like your name xD
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    (Original post by Paul36251)
    Lol I like your name xD
    Thanks baba.
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    For security reasons I think this law is acceptable
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    I agree, no wonder why more people are going to vote BNP. We treat muslims better than our own people.
    I really am puzzled by this thread.

    Firstly, I am told this nation is a Christian nation. We have developed customs and traditions. Having sex outside marriage, drinking and getting bladdered are hardly values of Christianity. It seems these customs or traditions are not really customs or traditions associated with the UK but that of chavs such as yourself.

    Secondly, people are aware of the laws or the criminal offences of a particular country as it is well out there. In Dubai you do get arrested, for doing that stuff. So why do it. Why have sex on the beach? It is not Christian. They would be charged under UK law as well.n But then again that is against our liberal values.

    All I can think of is "simple minds"...
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    That's not the issue at all. Of course it's all my opinion, who the hell do you think's saying it? :dunce: The issue is entirely whether or not my opinion is the grounding behind my intention to ban it. As it happens, of course it is - everything is opinion. Only you seem to think that where the brutal suppression of women is a justifiable, rational view, I perceive it as disgusting. You're still making out that opinions are all equally valid, even if it involves unjustified societal practices resulting in the defenceless living in hell on earth. Conformative patriarchy isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if, as you think, repressive patriarchy isn't to the same degree, then you have a lot of work ahead of you.
    Using terms like "brutal repression" makes you sound moronic. You have no evidence to support your claims, indeed most of them are emotional, sensationalist drivel. Your definition of patriarchy is exclusive to western societies so it's highly illogical to superimpose it on Eastern Muslim ones.



    No they don't. Okay, then, I know that the burkha is a dangerous coercive item.
    Nonsense. Again you need evidence to back this up. Most criminals, rapists arsonists are not burqa clad. This whole hysteria over this issue just masks this country's real issue.





    Er, what? If they choose to wear mini-skirts in the freezing cold then let them be - it's their decision. It is completely incomparable to the forcing of an item onto one's spouse. If you can't see that, you can't see anything.
    So then you're essentially arguing that if stripping your clothes off to appeal to the male gender is a symbol of liberation, then surely the lap dancers, strippers, porn actresses and the likes must epitomise the concept of a liberated woman.



    That's because the burkha is entirely a product of patriarchal repression. The miniskirt doesn't even come close.
    First of all we can look at the example of Egypt. Male run, male dominated.They along with the Al Azhar University decided to ban the Burqa, it wasn't the men who led the outcry, it was clearly the women. Logically if they were "brutally repressed" into wearing it , why then make all of that commotion and protests.





    Because those not wearing the burkha are obviously not being forced to wear the damn thing. Those who do wear it are either (a) forced, or (b) doing it out of choice. Again, the line is too difficult to discern.
    Some are encouraged not forced, they reflect the social and religious environment of them and their household.
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    Women should be allowed to expose or cover up as much of themselves as they please, and feel comfortable with. The vast vast majority of fully covering women in the west choose to do so, not because theyre forced, or opressed, or carrying C4, rather, because its how they feel comfortable. (Consider the exact opposite to the half naked young woman I saw spewing VK Blue on the pavement last night). Tbh, people can go stuff themselves if they're uncomfortable with other people wearing what they want. Its not like the headscarf is being forced upon the native french women. Maybe I personally find people with a million face piercings and foot high mohicans to be offensive. Or maybe I have an issue with the full dress of orthodox jews like the ones I saw in Golders Green the other day. Can we ban them from dressing how they want?

    Islamaphobia is reaching disgusting new heights.
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    "to gain the pleasure and approval of God"

    GOD likes to see women covered in bin-liners!!? Is he kinky?
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    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    I really am puzzled by this thread.

    Firstly, I am told this nation is a Christian nation. We have developed customs and traditions. Having sex outside marriage, drinking and getting bladdered are hardly values of Christianity. It seems these customs or traditions are not really customs or traditions associated with the UK but that of chavs such as yourself.

    Secondly, people are aware of the laws or the criminal offences of a particular country as it is well out there. In Dubai you do get arrested, for doing that stuff. So why do it. Why have sex on the beach? It is not Christian. They would be charged under UK law as well.n But then again that is against our liberal values.

    All I can think of is "simple minds"...
    I'm not a chav, in fact I'm upper class, go to an international school and get £500 pocket money a week.

    This nation may no longer be Christian, but it was built on Christian values. Although no longer Christian, we still have values and we still have a culture.

    This country is becoming far too liberal that we're treating minorities better than our own people, through positive discrimination and the like. Put it this way:

    black/islamic guy and white guy apply for a job. They have equal qualifications and an equal CV. The black guy will always get the job so the company doesn't appear racist.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    That's not the issue at all. Of course it's all my opinion, who the hell do you think's saying it? :dunce: The issue is entirely whether or not my opinion is the grounding behind my intention to ban it. As it happens, of course it is - everything is opinion. Only you seem to think that where the brutal suppression of women is a justifiable, rational view, I perceive it as disgusting. You're still making out that opinions are all equally valid, even if it involves unjustified societal practices resulting in the defenceless living in hell on earth. Conformative patriarchy isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if, as you think, repressive patriarchy isn't to the same degree, then you have a lot of work ahead of you.
    I was pointing out you haven't even provided any anecdotal evidence for your argument. Your argument is purely based on your beliefs as to how women should and should not dress.

    No they don't. Okay, then, I know that the burkha is a dangerous coercive item.
    Dangerous and coercive? If you can provide good well informed reasons as to why this is the case rather than baseless invalid assumptions then I just may agree with you.

    Talk about inconsistency. When the burkha and these go hand in hand, it's quite hard to see where exactly your logic is coming from.
    Any evidence to support this? Are women who wear the burqa in the UK or France more likely to be the victims of domestic violence? Your assumptions are quite frankly ridiculous. There is however a strong correlation between alcoholism and domestic violence, should alcohol be banned?

    Er, what? If they choose to wear mini-skirts in the freezing cold then let them be - it's their decision. It is completely incomparable to the forcing of an item onto one's spouse. If you can't see that, you can't see anything.
    I could say the same for the burqa. What is exactly your argument by the way, you seem to be confusing the wearing of the burqa with someone forcing their wife to dress in a certain manner. In my previous post, I referred to a study which shows that young women, i.e. those who are not married or in a relationship and converts are over-represented in burqa wearers. Your argument is based on a misinformed assumption.

    That's because the burkha is entirely a product of patriarchal repression. The miniskirt doesn't even come close.
    Again, your opinion. What about the women who do it out of choice? It's their decision to make as to whether they think it's a product of patriarchal repression surely?

    Fine. I'm sure those not wearing it won't mind when it's banned then.
    I don't wear it and I would mind. Plenty of Muslim women who don't wear it respect the choice of those who do and would be offended if this right was stripped off them (no pun intended).

    Because those not wearing the burkha are obviously not being forced to wear the damn thing. Those who do wear it are either (a) forced, or (b) doing it out of choice. Again, the line is too difficult to discern.
    So your idea is to put a blanket ban the whole thing? I could say people wearing hoodies are more likely to commit theft. Even though the majority of them don't, it is difficult to discern who is a thief and who isn't when wearing a hoodie so let's ban the garment.


    I can, and have done.

    So tell me, again, why do you support the wearing of the burkha? Is it because you secretly like the thought of being able to force your spouse under your iron boot, under pain of beatings? Is it because you want that feeling of power when you force your spouse to wear a symbol of difference and inequality? Is it because you want dictatorial loons in the Middle East to continue with their misogynistic policies? Please tell.
    I have provided reasons relating to health and logic with regards to all wearers of short skirts whereas you haven't done the same with the burqa. Your argument is based on the possibility that some of them may be forced to wear it and are being beaten by their husbands which is a completely different matter and one with no evidence.

    I am pro-choice in this matter, in the same way someone who is pro-choice with regards to abortion doesn't think every woman should be forced to have an abortion but instead given the option I feel the same about the burqa. The rest of that quote is complete nonsense and reeks of desperation. We're having a debate about whether the veil should be banned, if you want to accuse me of being a violent misogynist who would beat my spouse then feel free to open another thread and start a fresh debate.
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    black/islamic guy and white guy apply for a job. They have equal qualifications and an equal CV. The black guy will always get the job so the company doesn't appear racist.
    Thats a lie. Last time I applied for a job, I was more qualified than the white guy who applied, and yet he got the job. Institutional racism exists and it isn't a joke, but it has nothing to do with the topic tbh.
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    (Original post by kai4321)
    Although, you know, ideally they should just ban all religions because I REALLY hate to break it to you guys but... you know God right... he's MADE UP!
    :rofl:

    pos rep for you my dear
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Can you provide a quote from the Quran which explicitly states that women must cover their heads in a bag?
    i just said they DONT
    and it says it NOWHERE in the Quran
    read what i wrote before you write such comments
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    (Original post by Smoker)
    Women should be allowed to expose or cover up as much of themselves as they please, and feel comfortable with. The vast vast majority of fully covering women in the west choose to do so, not because theyre forced, or opressed, or carrying C4, rather, because its how they feel comfortable. (Consider the exact opposite to the half naked young woman I saw spewing VK Blue on the pavement last night). Tbh, people can go stuff themselves if they're uncomfortable with other people wearing what they want. Its not like the headscarf is being forced upon the native french women. Maybe I personally find people with a million face piercings and foot high mohicans to be offensive. Or maybe I have an issue with the full dress of orthodox jews like the ones I saw in Golders Green the other day. Can we ban them from dressing how they want?

    Islamaphobia is reaching disgusting new heights.
    There is no such thing as Islamophobia - A phobia is an irrational fear of something. Fearing islam is not irrational.
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    (Original post by Avesta)
    There is no such thing as Islamophobia - A phobia is an irrational fear of something. Fearing islam is not irrational.
    It depends for what reason you fear Islam.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-vybA54BF4


    :p: :yes: have to love Outnumbered <3
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    It depends for what reason you fear Islam.
    The Danish cartoon or salman rushdie reactions are probably a good reason.
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    It depends for what reason you fear Islam.
    For being a non-Muslim (and non-theist) and not wishing to subscribe to its beliefs. That fact alone renders me someone not worthy of life in Islam. Anyone who is non-Muslim should be afraid of Islam.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Precisely. Retained as a cultural practise in some Christian and Muslim areas.
    It has nothing to do with Islam at least as you have acknowledged that its a cultural practise that takes place in some Muslim areas. This invalidates your previously proposed logic. So I would advise you to stay on topic and avoid drifting off.
    It annoys me that people continue to use the 'it's not religion it's culture' argument. If it weren't for the religion the 'culture' would never have come about.

    You don't see non-Muslim women covering from head to toe in a sheet. It's because of their religion that these 'cultures' exist.
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    (Original post by Avesta)
    There is no such thing as Islamophobia - A phobia is an irrational fear of something. Fearing islam is not irrational.
    Nobody should fear Islam. Islam does nothing wrong. Misinterpreting muslims, and evil organisations such as the Taliban however, do exist, and fear mongering and warfare between western forces and third world muslim countries has resulted in a general air of hostility between the two parties. Anyone who has studied and understood the qu'ran with any common sense will see Islam is the opposite of a harmful religion, it is a beautiful one.
 
 
 
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