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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    You constantly bring up the fact that I'm Italian and use that to attack me as a 'fascist'. And that post is stating facts: many do condemn British troops and many do support the cause behind Anjem Choudary's [now void] march. In no way did I insinuate that simply being muslim makes you a terrorist.
    Most Muslims condemn the Afghan occupation not British troops in particular and most Muslims hate Anjem Choudary. :fyi:
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Why exactly do you disagree with cartoons being published?
    I don't care what they publish. My qualm is with people taking issue with the Muslim reaction and their selective application of the notion of freedom of expression.

    It seems as if it is unacceptable to express views that are deemed racist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic. Most pertinently, you should not deny the holocaust; even to question this sacred subject is taboo. However, you can express anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim views, no matter how much offence it causes; in fact the more the better, because it is often used by sections of western societies as a barometer for freedom of expression. After struggling against the censorship for centuries, suddenly their freedom of expression rests on their ability to insult Islam and Muslims!.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    However, you can express anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim views, no matter how much offence it causes;
    No you cannot. Hate laws outlaw that, actually.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I don't care what they publish. My qualm is with people taking issue with the Muslim reaction and their selective application of the notion of freedom of expression.

    It seems as if it is unacceptable to express views that are deemed racist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic. Most pertinently, you should not deny the holocaust; even to question this sacred subject is taboo. However, you can express anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim views, no matter how much offence it causes; in fact the more the better, because it is often used by sections of western societies as a barometer for freedom of expression. After struggling against the censorship for centuries, suddenly their freedom of expression rests on their ability to insult Islam and Muslims!.
    The Muslim reaction that you speak of was completely disproportionate; there is no way that you can muster up a defence for the burning of embassies.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    You constantly bring up the fact that I'm Italian and use that to attack me as a 'fascist'.
    Because it seems highly ironic that a person who comes from a country that exhibits so much racism can collectively bash Muslims and their religion yet gets offended when their disgusting views are made apparent to them and consequentially perfectly shows them to have fascist tenancies in correlation with the concurrent political climate,seeing as the racist parties have take the issue of Islam as their main goal.


    And that post is stating facts: many do condemn British troops and many do support the cause behind Anjem Choudary's [now void] march. In no way did I insinuate that simply being muslim makes you a terrorist.
    You have no facts,you're asserting baseless conclusions, in direct contradiction with opinions of Muslims. And no yes you didn't say it directly, you were very implicit.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Because it seems highly ironic that a person who comes from a country that exhibits so much racism can collectively bash Muslims and their religion yet gets offended when their disgusting views are made apparent to them and consequentially perfectly shows them to have fascist tenancies in correlation with the concurrent political climate,seeing as the racist parties have take the issue of Islam as their main goal.
    Lay off the fact that she's Italian, dude. :no:
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    The Muslim reaction that you speak of was completely disproportionate; there is no way that you can muster up a defence for the burning of embassies.
    I fail to see how this issue can have such prominence in comparison to European countries occupying two Muslim nations. I fail to see how a few burnt embassies can be held to such abhorrence as apposed to two illegal wars and the deaths directly and indirectly of hundreds of thousands. Again I refuse to condemn these people, what they did is trivial in comparison to the largely tolerable actions committed by the "civilized" west.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100115/...dding_the_veil

    ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!!!!

    Just to clear things up for confused people:

    1) HIJAB--> is what covers the woman's hair and is a MUST in Islam
    2) Niqab or Burqua--> what covers the face and is NOT a must in Islam
    3) Abaya--> What covers the woman's body.
    (REASON!) in order not for her chest, arms, legs, or any other visible skin to show. ONLY face and hands are ok to show. A woman might choose to NOT wear the Abaya and that is FINE as long as she wears a dress to cover the mentioned parts.

    But seriously, France is so ***** STUPID in doing this!
    And the lady has a point in saying that Muslims don't force Christians and other religions from wearing the hijab in a Muslim country...
    * Saudi Arabia is another story, as THEY are an example of EXTREMISTS and something that Islam does not approve of. Like the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that the best thing is to be in the MIDDLE, not TOO free and not too EXTREME....
    After all, Islam is simple and easy and doesn't force people to do things they don't like. God made everything easy for us....
    I have many muslim friends, and I have no problem with the Hijab that covers the hair, it actually suits some girls and makes them look prettier.
    What I do have a slight problem with is the Niqab covering the whole face and body apart from the eyes, i'm sorry but it's not compulsory to wear, so then why are you calling trouble upon yourself by wearing it? Asking for racism, prejudice and abuse, if you ask me.
    If it was a country such as Saudi Arabia, then fine, it's the norm to wear the Niqab there. But when you come to Britain, France or any other European nation, you have to adjust to their rules.
    There could be a guy underneath the Niqab, who knows? I'm not trying to disrespect the Niqab, but the major concern is safety. Also, people who wear the niqab exclude themselves totally from the society, so naturally they're not welcomed by people.
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    Lay off the fact that she's Italian, dude. :no:
    I don't care whether she's Italian or not. This isn't my point here, there are thousands of Italian Muslims and non Muslims who are perfectly good people, but with her case it seems those who live in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I fail to see how this issue can have such prominence in comparison to European countries occupying two Muslim nations. I fail to see how a few burnt embassies can be held to such abhorrence as apposed to two illegal wars and the deaths directly and indirectly of hundreds of thousands. Again I refuse to condemn these people, what they did is trivial in comparison to the largely tolerable actions committed by the "civilized" west.
    Just because some things may be worse, does not make something else right.

    And seriously, just stop with the Italian digs. If I did the same to somebody who came from a Middle Eastern country I'd be absolutely ravaged.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I fail to see how this issue can have such prominence in comparison to European countries occupying two Muslim nations. I fail to see how a few burnt embassies can be held to such abhorrence as apposed to two illegal wars and the deaths directly and indirectly of hundreds of thousands. Again I refuse to condemn these people, what they did is trivial in comparison to the largely tolerable actions committed by the "civilized" west.
    This is completely unrelated to the issue which we are dealing with. We are dealing with the freedom of speech and appropriate and inappropriate responses. You comment is completely unrelated, and really there is no point continuing discussions if you are going to continuously make reference to it.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    If you read my other posts in this thread, you'll have my answer. I can't be bothered to repeat myself again.
    I didn't find your answer other than you saying something about muslims themselves not being able to give you accurate translations. Well let me tell you there are muslims who can do that.
    Just because you have never found someone giving you a translation doesnt mean you can go use verses to argue that muslims do want jews dead. I myself don't have translations but I do know that many do have inaccurate ones and that there are some that do have accurate translations. The countries that have all the extremist laws have been fed inaccurate knowledge which has led to some people believing muslims are bad....

    large muslims population have some publishers who translate the Quran to english like so

    Orignal translation - 'He wants those to suffer'
    and there will be a footnote (added in by the publisher) saying 'those = jews, christians'

    And then a website will feed off this info and say
    'He wants jews to suffer'
    And then extremists feed this info and manipulate others...

    I do sincerely believe that Muslims don't want every other religion to go.
    God wishes muslims to donate to the needy. True, one of the pillars of islam is to donate 2.5% of wealth to poor muslims but the religion aso encourages to donate money to any poor person as well (including other religions)
    I hope I don't come across as preachy but my point was that you were accusing someone as to how do they have the authority to say such and such a thing but then you don't have the authority to take quotes out of the Quran either.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I don't care whether she's Italian or not. This isn't my point here, there are thousands of Italian Muslims and non Muslims who are perfectly good people, but with her case it seems those who live in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.
    But she is correct in stating that the protests that occured afterwards were not necessary. Although I partially agree with your stance regarding condemnation.
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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    Just because some things may be worse, does not make something else right.
    Yeah great, I don't care

    And seriously, just stop with the Italian digs. If I did the same to somebody who came from a Middle Eastern country I'd be absolutely ravaged.
    I'm not having a dig, if I wanted to say racist things towards Italians (if they are a race) I would've done so already, but luckily for you, I abhor racists. And by the way you can say all the things you like about Arabs, I'm not going to stop you.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I'm not having a dig, if I wanted to say racist things towards Italians (if they are a race) I would've done so already, but luckily for you, I abhor racists. And by the way you can say all the things you like about Arabs, I'm not going to stop you.
    You do continually discriminate against Italians (I don't know whether it'd class as 'racism' either), though. All your sigs in the past, all your criticisms and claims that all Italians are 'racist' and 'fascist'. Defining us by the collective, and not the individual.

    And no, I have no wish to be racist towards Arabs.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    This is completely unrelated to the issue which we are dealing with. We are dealing with the freedom of speech and appropriate and inappropriate responses. You comment is completely unrelated, and really there is no point continuing discussions if you are going to continuously make reference to it.
    How is it unrelated they're both events. One caused way more destruction and devastation than the other however one has been ignorantly held as the epitome of one social group that they have to hear about to this day and are incessantly expected to apologize for it while the other is an interior inconvenience.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    How is it unrelated they're both events. One caused way more destruction and devastation than the other however one has been ignorantly held as the epitome of one social group that they have to hear about to this day and are incessantly expected to apologize for it while the other is an interior inconvenience.
    Fine.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    Very apt choice of words.
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    (Original post by jabed786)
    x
    What you posted is correct however I want to shed some light on the verse in question. The verse was revealed in the context of an invading army coming to Medina to destroy Islam up until this time (roughly 13 years after the message was first revealed) there had been no permission given to fight non- Muslims. This verse was the permission, the last bit about giving money is a surrender condition that is to imposed when the war ends. Also, the next verse talks about if the invading army wants peace excort them to safety and make peace with them. AFAIK.
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    actually, I think you will find that even the Hijab is not a must in Islam for women, unless they have been to Hajj or are praying...
 
 
 
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