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    (Original post by 35mm_)
    You do continually discriminate against Italians (I don't know whether it'd class as 'racism' either), though. All your sigs in the past, all your criticisms and claims that all Italians are 'racist' and 'fascist'. Defining us by the collective, and not the individual.

    And no, I have no wish to be racist towards Arabs.
    So showing Italian bigotry make me a racist? how does that work. And didn't you do the same thing with Abu Umar's quote :rolleyes:
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    two words: burqa porn
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    (Original post by jabed786)
    I didn't find your answer other than you saying something about muslims themselves not being able to give you accurate translations. Well let me tell you there are muslims who can do that.
    Just because you have never found someone giving you a translation doesnt mean you can go use verses to argue that muslims do want jews dead. I myself don't have translations but I do know that many do have inaccurate ones and that there are some that do have accurate translations. The countries that have all the extremist laws have been fed inaccurate knowledge which has led to some people believing muslims are bad....

    large muslims population have some publishers who translate the Quran to english like so

    Orignal translation - 'He wants those to suffer'
    and there will be a footnote (added in by the publisher) saying 'those = jews, christians'

    And then a website will feed off this info and say
    'He wants jews to suffer'
    And then extremists feed this info and manipulate others...

    I do sincerely believe that Muslims don't want every other religion to go.
    God wishes muslims to donate to the needy. True, one of the pillars of islam is to donate 2.5% of wealth to poor muslims but the religion aso encourages to donate money to any poor person as well (including other religions)
    I hope I don't come across as preachy but my point was that you were accusing someone as to how do they have the authority to say such and such a thing but then you don't have the authority to take quotes out of the Quran either.
    To be honest, I don't care what you have to say enough to give you a proper answer. What I will say, just from glancing over your post, is;

    1) Fundamentalist Muslims in the middle east don't read English translations, which is what I'm talking about. So you can't claim that they obey incorrect English translations, can you?

    2) Even if people do obey things which are merely the result of bad translations, so many people do it that you'd be absurd to say that they aren't Muslims regardless.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    So showing Italian bigotry make me a racist? how does that work. And didn't you do the same thing with Abu Umar's quote :rolleyes:
    Italian bigotry? It's bigotry on the part of individuals, not the whole of the Italian nation.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Exactly and what's worse they also come out with that freedom of expression ********. I'd like to see them deny the holocaust and say the same thing and see if they get away with it. Because we all know,you offend them you go to jail, you offend Muslims you become immortalized.
    You can't really use the Holocaust as an example... even if it's just the 'principle'. It was bad to bring that up. This is completely different.

    People make cartoons about Jesus and stuff, having a laugh and people don't try and murder people for that + ALSO the Muslim veil thing isn't because they're persecuting Muslims, it's for practicality as they can't see their face, they are letting them wear the headscarves. It's not like they're stopping them practising their religion or KILLING them like they did the Jews.

    Completely different and irrelevant.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    To be honest, I don't care what you have to say enough to give you a proper answer. What I will say, just from glancing over your post, is;

    1) Fundamentalist Muslims in the middle east don't read English translations, which is what I'm talking about. So you can't claim that they obey incorrect English translations, can you?

    2) Even if people do obey things which are merely the result of bad translations, so many people do it that you'd be absurd to say that they aren't Muslims regardless.
    English was an example, you could change the situation to 'Quran translated to Chinese, Bengali etc.' the message was that the source of lots extremists is the clear misintrepretations.

    And yes it could be ok to say they arent Muslims because they are following bad translations

    Some may argue that its not the misguideds fault that they are obeying extremist views since they didnt know they were being fed wrong information... however in some sense they should study their language more which would have resulted into them knowing that they have been following wrong rules. E.g.
    a muslim thinking eating pork is okay, and doesnt look into the matter to make sure its totally okay, isnt really a good muslim.
    Which does lead me to think that this is the issue in many countries. We need muslims who have a good natured background to show the misguided muslims what Islam believes in.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    No you're too thick or blind to see that this is not point. Why should I go to jail for simply saying the holocaust didn't exist if freedom of expression is a supposed value in the West.
    You don't go to jail for denying the holocaust in the UK - or, I think , in most countries. In Austria you do, but then, they have guilt to overcome
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    Something we must remember is, that this should always be about the comfort of the French people, not the comfort of the immigrant community. The French should not be made to feel uncomfortable in their own country; and if banning the burqa makes them more comfortable then so be it.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    Yes and what France is doing is being pragmatic about Muslim immigration to maximise everyones happiness. Burkas are not needed and are in no way essential to the practice of Islam, it is a cultural norm that is prominant in authoritarian and totalitrian Muslim states where religious freedom is not allowed.
    These Burkas can be potentially used to compromise the safety of other people, create social unrest and so on. There is no utility to their use.
    I for one value pluralist society and Burkas are extremely anti-social, they just create stigma for Muslims.
    And I absolutely agree with this view - I was just addressing your earlier point where you said the opinion you quoted wasn't valid. It's pretty integral. But since that was going off topic slightly and this thread focuses on the burkha specifically, I'll just say I agree with you on the issue.
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    Whoa so many pages...

    Everyone keeps saying Islam is peace buts thats only one part of it.

    Defining "ISLAM" in English
    What Does It Mean? - Is It A Noun Or A Verb?
    "Islam" - Is Both - A Verb - & - A Noun
    Islam Means:
    Surrender = to Almighty Allah (God)
    Submission = to His Will
    Obedience = Obey His Commandments
    Sincerity (& Purity of Intention) = Sincere Worship Only For Him
    Peace = in Mind, Heart & Soul

    So basically as this is God words who are we creation to go against him.

    And on the veil thing it is an optional thing in Islam. The way I think it came about was that married women when they when about doing stuff they didnt want to get recognised and for long distance travelling. When they wore the veil they felt safe. But in present times you really need a lot of courage to do it, cuz you GET insults like ninja from scumbags (i have witnessed it myself). There not out to cause trouble. Wearing the veil is very difficult so why would they do it, im sure they dont want to be harassment all the time, wearing it makes them feel closer to their God.

    “The world and all things in it are valuable; but the most valuable thing in the world is a virtuous woman” Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
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    (Original post by algérie_mon_amour)
    I disagree. Over time people are becoming even less mature.
    Again, I disprove you; as there is evidence (which I don't have at the moment) that shows that girls who live in warm countries reach puberty at an earlier age than those living in cooler conditions. And as Muslims we believe that as soon as a child reaches puberty, he is mature enough to be responsible for his/her doings hence judged upon them and can obviously get married and have children. This was possible 1300 years ago, but today, it's impossible for a 10 year old child to get married and have children etc due to the immaturity..as time proceeds things change


    If only you knew who the prophet peace be upon him was, you wouldn't be saying such things; because any woman at that time whatever her age was, would have wished to marry him.
    The prophet peace be upon him only hvead five children from two wives out of 10.



    Your replies sound irresponsible unfortunately and show how disrespectful you are.

    I'll stop here, because you don't seem like someone who wants to discuss matuarily but rather like an attacker whose aim is not to discover reality but to slaughter it with wrong arguments.

    Good bye
    I have searched extensively and there is no proof that a hotter climate means a later age of puberty. The only thing that has decreased the age of puberty has been a better diet and better living conditions, and by todays standards Aisha would have been living in squalor. This means her age of puberty must have been high. No matter what you believe, even if she was unfortunate enough to be a medical discrepancy, she would not have been mentally prepared for such an act. Even if she was it sends the wrong message to Muslims today - that it is ok to have sex with any women who has reached puberty, when science has proven that puberty is just the start rather than the end.

    Also, I would be interested to know where it states in the haddiths that she had actually reached puberty? She was still playing with dolls when she moved into the marital home with Mohammed. If she was allowed to play with dolls when she moved in she must have been pre-pubescent.

    Please do your research properly:
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamo...pubescent2.htm

    There is nothing that you can say to overcome the fact that your 'prophet' comitted an act of paedophillia, something that someone with God telling them what to do would never have done. Something that someone who was living a life to set an example would never have done, no matter if the child was bleeding or not. She would have looked and been the size of a child for goodness sake. How can you follow a man that could put his penis in a child?
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    (Original post by grippet)
    You don't go to jail for denying the holocaust in the UK - or, I think , in most countries. In Austria you do, but then, they have guilt to overcome
    Yeah you do in 15 countries.
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    (Original post by abbi.blythe)
    You can't really use the Holocaust as an example... even if it's just the 'principle'. It was bad to bring that up. This is completely different.
    No it isn't infact it offends way less people than the prophet mohammed cartoons.

    People make cartoons about Jesus and stuff, having a laugh and people don't try and murder people for that + ALSO the Muslim veil thing isn't because they're persecuting Muslims, it's for practicality as they can't see their face, they are letting them wear the headscarves. It's not like they're stopping them practising their religion or KILLING them like they did the Jews.

    Completely different and irrelevant.
    As I said had the intentions of those cartoons been innocent I would agree but they weren't and you insulted something we Muslims can't even dream of touching.
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    "There is nothing that you can say to overcome the fact that your 'prophet' comitted an act of paedophillia, something that someone with God telling them what to do would never have done."

    The Yorkshire Ripper killed women because God told him to. Fortunately society now sees such statements as a sign of madness not divine inspiration.
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    Wow.
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    (Original post by Princesschickenbelly)
    You do realise that you have just supported my argument right? You need to learn to read. I said 'I'm tired of people using the excuse that it's not religion its culture when if they weren't a part of that religion they wouldn't be doing the cultural things' and you have just said yourself that it is religion that makes them do it. Glad you agree
    Well for that you would have to quote me on the right post.
    The hijab is a religious thing, which, over the years MAY have become a part of culture in Muslim countries. That is not the centre of dispute.

    We were talking about female circumcision which is a cultural practise and religion (Islam) never promoted it in the first place. Therefore, the practise remains a completely cultural one. This does not support your argument. I may have somewhat inadvertently supported your argument in my previous post, but that was only about the Islamic dresscode.

    You need to learn to quote the relevant posts or at least while quoting me, make it clear that you're speaking of something completely different.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100115/...dding_the_veil

    ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!!!!

    Just to clear things up for confused people:

    1) HIJAB--> is what covers the woman's hair and is a MUST in Islam
    2) Niqab or Burqua--> what covers the face and is NOT a must in Islam
    3) Abaya--> What covers the woman's body.
    (REASON!) in order not for her chest, arms, legs, or any other visible skin to show. ONLY face and hands are ok to show. A woman might choose to NOT wear the Abaya and that is FINE as long as she wears a dress to cover the mentioned parts.

    But seriously, France is so ***** STUPID in doing this!
    And the lady has a point in saying that Muslims don't force Christians and other religions from wearing the hijab in a Muslim country...
    * Saudi Arabia is another story, as THEY are an example of EXTREMISTS and something that Islam does not approve of. Like the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that the best thing is to be in the MIDDLE, not TOO free and not too EXTREME....
    After all, Islam is simple and easy and doesn't force people to do things they don't like. God made everything easy for us....
    1.) They don't cast them out, but instead they burn their churches? My former church was burnt into the ground about couple of weeks ago (in Malaysia) so yeah, I hate you and your religion.

    2.)Simple and easy? Hahahahahahas I really want to die laughing at you. Firstly, in my country, you cannot leave the Muslim as it against the law and you'll be whipped. Secondly, if you ever consume alcohol you will be whipped. Thirdly, if your man doesn't like you, you will be accused of adulterous and be stoned to death. Video Warning, it's very disturbing watch at your own risk... so my ass it is, if islam goes easy on people and doesn't force them to do anything.
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    (Original post by manthew)
    Simple and easy? Hahahahahahas I really want to die laughing at you. Firstly, in my country, you cannot leave the Muslim as it against the law and you'll be whipped. Secondly, if you ever consume alcohol you will be whipped. Thirdly, if your man doesn't like you, you will be accused of adulterous and be stoned to death. Video Warning, it's very disturbing watch at your own risk... so my ass it is, if islam goes easy on people and doesn't force them to do anything.
    Just to add on, I'm pretty sure the official "Islamic" punishment for leaving Islam is death

    All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death.
    On the same page they also say

    It should be noted that Islam never compels any person to accept it or embrace its teachings.
    :rolleyes:

    Source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar
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    Urgh.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    This is not a persecution of Islam, it is a pragmatic form of goverment intervention.

    EDIT: if France was being disrespectful and intolerant of Islam they would ban the practice alltogether.
    Oh it's pragmatic and politically correct to say a religion is "stupid" what are you basing this on? i have not read further on from this but i doubt it's anything good you're basing this on ideas you already have from the media. We all know, well the ones that are smart enough to use something other than media for news purposes that media only tells half of the story if not much less.
 
 
 
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