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    (Original post by manthew)
    OK, I'll take the effort to straighten the facts for you. Believe me, I have read more news about this matter than what you get from google.

    Wait, I guess this 20mins clip would answer all your 'Ask yourself' questions.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV89G-wrg

    And ofcourse, I'm not asking you to agree...
    Glad to see you're looking beyond the tv. But what is a professor political science gonna know anything about this? all he gave the facts of the population of Muslims and pretty much said whatever the reverend said, useless having him on there. Another thing to point out is, Islam does not condone this behavior at all.... it is said everywhere and it's sad a few that do result to this but hating all the Muslims on the basis of this is wrong tbh. I am sure you know why it happened by the use of the word "Allah" and i am not a very religious person, so i won't go in depth with that.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Surely, given the confusing nature of this topic, it can be posited that the Quaran and the Haddiths were not divinely inspired in anyway and so are not worthy of basing ones life on?

    This is besides the point anyway. With 99% certainty your 'prophet' had sex with a small child. If he had waited he would have stated this for future generations to learn, because he was hardly coy about his deliberate actions and how they were supposed to teach future generations... This is someone you are compelled by the Quaran to follow in word and in action, so why are you on this forum and not waist deep in some pre-pubescent girl?

    Don't spew out rubbish if you ain't even read the holy Qur'an which clearly states he never did. I ain't going any further than that because you don't have your sources at all right here which is very ignorant of you and stupid really. Read the Qur'an first and then talk about this matter cause you clearly have no knowledge of it.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Sure, thats one source you'v put forward, here are many reasons to refute that http://www.scribd.com/doc/16141277/D...eloved-Prophet
    Haha what a pleasant article:
    "If prophet had married a 9 year old, obviously the Jews would have reported or made a fuss as we know the Jews have always wanted to destroy Islam!"

    What a pleasant and scholarly article.
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    (Original post by boromir9111)
    Don't spew out rubbish if you ain't even read the holy Qur'an which clearly states he never did. I ain't going any further than that because you don't have your sources at all right here which is very ignorant of you and stupid really. Read the Qur'an first and then talk about this matter cause you clearly have no knowledge of it.
    The Quran states no such thing you liar. The haddiths state she was 6 years old when she married and 9 at consumation. Other haddiths state she was still playing with dolls when she moved into the marrital home. Like i've said many a time, even if Mo Mo had cut the head off of a baby and had sex with the hole you'd defend him anyway because you are a brain washed mug. You are on this site defending a paedophile ffs, look at yourself.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Surely, given the confusing nature of this topic, it can be posited that the Quaran and the Haddiths were not divinely inspired in anyway and so are not worthy of basing ones life on?

    This is besides the point anyway. With 99% certainty your 'prophet' had sex with a small child. If he had waited he would have stated this for future generations to learn, because he was hardly coy about his deliberate actions and how they were supposed to teach future generations... This is someone you are compelled by the Quaran to follow in word and in action, so why are you on this forum and not waist deep in some pre-pubescent girl?
    Surely Sheikh Elipsis, you would be 99% sure about this because of the years you'v spent researching while completing your PhD in Islamic studies. Or maybe you were there at the time of the Prophet?

    Dont propose such retarded ideas. The Prophet S.W. was sent to supplement the Quran and our interpretation of it. While this is true, it is also clearly stated that we as ordinary human beings will not enjoy certain privileges as him. This doesnt also mean that having sexual intercourse with a 6 year old is a privilege, because he didnt do that, as I have mentioned in my other posts. Your logic is immensely twisted because you claim that her age would have been explicit if there was no 'dirty business.'

    If that is true, there would not have been ambiguity in any part of the religion. There wouldn't be so much dispute about whether the hijab is necessary (which was the whole point of this thread), whether musical instruments are halal or haraam, whether female leadership is allowed in Islam.

    Now you will say there is ambiguity because its not a proper religion, its all made up! Then, I will return to my previous point. If its made up, why do you choose to believe the parts that purport to degrade the religion and the Prophet?

    Your idea is similar to convicting a man for murder without any evidence because he has a violent record. That too would fail because Muhammad (PBUH) didn't have a record of marrying young women.
    Islam does not promote polygamy under normal circumstances. Nor do I find the need to explain to you why having multiple wives has been allowed in Islam.

    The Prophet's lifestyle before his marriage to Aisha clearly shows that he was nowhere close to a paedophile. Or maybe im wrong because all the other verses that have stated his paedophilism were forged by the Arabs, correct?
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Unlike the Quran, the words of the Hadeeth cannot be taken at face value as some are strong and some are a bit weak. Which is why there is some confusion in determining whether musical instruments are haraam or not, whether female leadership is condemned or not...
    We leave out the weak hadeeth out when finding our answers. Lets assume the Hadeeth that has mentioned this has been interpreted 100% accurately although none of you have any expert knowledge in Arabic and nor is anyone present here a certified Islamic scholar. Even if the hadeeth mentions such a thing, I advise you to cross check with that source which has been considered unreliable.
    Those hadiths I mentioned are completely authentic. They are in Sahih Bukhari for heavens sake. Thats the number 1 hadith book for sunnis and the most authentic book of hadith ever created. The stuff about her being older has only been mentioned in the late 20th and 21st century to appease the kuffar.

    Also if you want another scholar's opinion have a look at this fatwa:

    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/44990/
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Haha what a pleasant article:
    "If prophet had married a 9 year old, obviously the Jews would have reported or made a fuss as we know the Jews have always wanted to destroy Islam!"

    What a pleasant and scholarly article.
    Indeed
    You wouldnt be smart enough to realise that the Jews being referred to here are from that period and not the ones at present day AND that they would actually want to destroy Islam + the Prophet because they failed to respect a treaty back then and betrayed the Muslims.

    Funny how you leave out the entire thing and quote the irrelevant part.

    I'm out, this argument has nothing to do with the title.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    The Quran states no such thing you liar. The haddiths state she was 6 years old when she married and 9 at consumation. Other haddiths state she was still playing with dolls when she moved into the marrital home. Like i've said many a time, even if Mo Mo had cut the head off of a baby and had sex with the hole you'd defend him anyway because you are a brain washed mug. You are on this site defending a paedophile ffs, look at yourself.
    These marriages occured throughout history. King Ricard II married a 6 year old. Even now if you go to third world countries, girls are getting married off at ages as young as 8.

    I don't see what is wrong with two people who are physically matured to have a relationship.

    Let me give you a hypothetical scenario:

    If a 14 yo boy marries a 10yo girl and has sex with her, would that be wrong? Even if the girl has hit puberty.
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    (Original post by Casse)
    Those hadiths I mentioned are completely authentic. They are in Sahih Bukhari for heavens sake. Thats the number 1 hadith book for sunnis and the most authentic book of hadith ever created. The stuff about her being older has only been mentioned in the late 20th and 21st century to appease the kuffar.

    Also if you want another scholar's opinion have a look at this fatwa:

    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/44990/
    Are you demented?
    Sahih-Al-Bukhari doesnt make the hadeeth automatically authentic?

    On what basis do you make this claim without having any knowledge on the hadeeth. In that case, the Sahih-Al-Bukhari also mentions music, but not all scholars can confidently say that reflects the actual Islamic point of view, incl. Zakir Naik, who is widely recognised and respected as an Islamic scholar.

    Tata!
    thank you for a stimulating discussion, makes me feel energetic
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    The Quran states no such thing you liar. The haddiths state she was 6 years old when she married and 9 at consumation. Other haddiths state she was still playing with dolls when she moved into the marrital home. Like i've said many a time, even if Mo Mo had cut the head off of a baby and had sex with the hole you'd defend him anyway because you are a brain washed mug. You are on this site defending a paedophile ffs, look at yourself.
    Yeah what haddiths are you looking at? and forgive me for my ignorance, if i am saying he never consummated it with her at that age, how am i defending a pedophile when you're saying they consummated their marriage at age 9?

    edit - what i was trying to say is that the prophet(pbuh) never consummated with her at age 6.... that i know for sure and pretty sure that's what i mentioned when i quoted the post. But i won't go any further than that cause that's all i know for sure.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Haha what a pleasant article:
    "If prophet had married a 9 year old, obviously the Jews would have reported or made a fuss as we know the Jews have always wanted to destroy Islam!"

    What a pleasant and scholarly article.
    Pretty much sums up Islam, a victim complex, an obsession everybody is out to get the muslims, raving anti-semetic views, intolerance of those who question the faith and full of contradictions and immorality.
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    (Original post by Casse)
    These marriages occured throughout history. King Ricard II married a 6 year old. Even now if you go to third world countries, girls are getting married off at ages as young as 8.

    I don't see what is wrong with two people who are physically matured to have a relationship.

    Let me give you a hypothetical scenario:

    If a 14 yo boy marries a 10yo girl and has sex with her, would that be wrong? Even if the girl has hit puberty.
    Yes it would be wrong, and should be stopped by the appropriate adults. Did you know during Mohammeds life it was a cultural thing to bury unwanted girls alive, but he over turned this and said it was wrong. Clearly he was trying to come across as good for all time, not just good in the culture he was transplanted in.
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    (Original post by boromir9111)
    Yeah what haddiths are you looking at? and forgive me for my ignorance, if i am saying he never consummated it with her at that age, how am i defending a pedophile when you're saying they consummated their marriage at age 9?
    Bro, lets leave them alone here to trash Islam as much as they want to. Its annoying when they insult our whole purpose of life, i.e. our religion, but, what the hell. I'v come to realise that even if you present empirical evidence to prove your point, they wont stop hating Islam, instead they'll hate Islam more than ever before because you'v offended them by proving them wrong.

    However, if you enjoy this stuff, carry on...good luck
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    (Original post by boromir9111)
    Yeah what haddiths are you looking at? and forgive me for my ignorance, if i am saying he never consummated it with her at that age, how am i defending a pedophile when you're saying they consummated their marriage at age 9?
    You are making up lies and excuses to cover his tracks for him. Here is a full summary refuting anything anyone can say on the topic:
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamo...pubescent2.htm
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Are you demented?
    Sahih-Al-Bukhari doesnt make the hadeeth automatically authentic?

    On what basis do you make this claim without having any knowledge on the hadeeth. In that case, the Sahih-Al-Bukhari also mentions music, but not all scholars can confidently say that reflects the actual Islamic point of view, incl. Zakir Naik, who is widely recognised and respected as an Islamic scholar.

    Tata!
    thank you for a stimulating discussion, makes me feel energetic
    Firstly, Sahih Bikhari has been regarded as the most authentic book of hadith and the view that Aisha was 6 at marriage is a view held by the vast majority of scholars. You have done nothing to back your point of view except post some strange article, when really you should have posted some fatwa by a knowledgable scholar.

    Secondly, Dr Zakir Naik isn't a scholar. He is a dai'ee.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You are making up lies and excuses to cover his tracks for him. Here is a full summary refuting anything anyone can say on the topic:
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamo...pubescent2.htm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM4IuDVFL3s

    Not defending no pedopohile, watch your language when you talk about our beloved Prophet(pbuh)

    Listen to that and then you can shut up for good.
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    (Original post by boromir9111)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM4IuDVFL3s

    Not defending no pedopohile, watch your language when you talk about our beloved Prophet(pbuh)

    Listen to that and then you can shut up for good.
    Watch my language or what? You'll show me just how peaceful Islam and Muslims really are?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Yes it would be wrong, and should be stopped by the appropriate adults. Did you know during Mohammeds life it was a cultural thing to bury unwanted girls alive, but he over turned this and said it was wrong. Clearly he was trying to come across as good for all time, not just good in the culture he was transplanted in.
    Why would a 10yo marrying 14yo be wrong when its consensual. Its not a one night stand where he's going to ditch her afterwards. This a lifetime commitment.

    Secondly, if the human body is capable of having sex then what is wrong with it when it is perfectly acceptable in that culture? Just because its not accepetable in the West doesn't make it wrong.

    Also if we go back a couple of hundred years, marriage at the age of 9,10,11,12 yo was common. The legal age of consent in California in the year 1800 was 12 years old. If you read Romeo & Juliet, Shakespeare points out girls as young as 11 wear giving birth to children.

    Just because it doesn't fit with your mentality doesn't make it necessarily wrong.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Watch my language or what? You'll show me just how peaceful Islam and Muslims really are?
    No, show some respect and watch the video..... hopefully it opens your eyes, your ignorant eyes. Other than that, i have given my proof, look at all variables which is what Hamza Yusuf does and you clearly don't. Goodbye.
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    That's a lie.
    Most of what you believe is but that doesn't stop you believing it.

    Suffice to say if you can prove that some cartoons have lead to anyone being harmed then please, enlighten me.

    Though since all the death-threats and violence is coming from Islamic fundamentalists I fail to see how that helps you.
 
 
 
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