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France moves closer to banning full Muslim veil!!! watch

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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I read the article you are refering to and my article responds to the piss poor points made in yours. Your beloved 'prophet' was a pedophile because he had sex with a 9 year old:
    Definitions of paedophile on the Web:
    pedophile: an adult who is sexually attracted to children
    wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

    He had sex with a 9 year old, she would have looked like a 9 year old. Therefore he was attracted to a child, hence he was a paedophile. You basically worship and follow someone who was attracted to and forced himself upon a girl that looks like this:
    http://infidelsunite.typepad.com/.a/...700e970b-800wi

    Na your wrong, my argument still destroys yours. At the time, women matured much more earlier and went through puberty much more earlier, the age of marriage was much earlier, and that is a fact. End Quote
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    Na your wrong, my argument still destroys yours. At the time, women matured much more earlier and went through puberty much more earlier, the age of marriage was much earlier, and that is a fact. End Quote
    Show me the science behind what you're saying because it quite simply isn't true. You Muslims keep stating as an iron fact that people used to mensturate earlier and it is patently untrue, even within Arab states it was the custom to marry at 12-14, not 9. She would have been under developed. It is a good job Mohammed isn't around today because children as young as 3 have started menstruating because of horomes on the water, and he would clearly see that as a green light to tear up an even younger child.

    Coincidently all of the evidence I can find on the historical shift of menstruating is that it has actually gotten lower since the 1840s now higher:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty#Historical_shift

    So please, show me the science, and stop telling me God told him that his behaviour is fine!
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Show me the science behind what you're saying because it quite simply isn't true. You Muslims keep stating as an iron fact that people used to mensturate earlier and it is patently untrue, even within Arab states it was the custom to marry at 12-14, not 9. She would have been under developed. It is a good job Mohammed isn't around today because children as young as 3 have started menstruating because of horomes on the water, and he would clearly see that as a green light to tear up an even younger child.

    Coincidently all of the evidence I can find on the historical shift of menstruating is that it has actually gotten lower since the 1840s now higher:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty#Historical_shift

    So please, show me the science, and stop telling me God told him that his behaviour is fine!
    Well there is nothing wrong with the marriage to Aisha(may Allah be pleased with her) as she had matured to the right age, and had gone through puberty at the age stated in the article, the proof is in the article, and i have to deliberate no more. End Qoute
    You can argue for years and years but it wont make a pennys difference.
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    Well there is nothing wrong with the marriage to Aisha(may Allah be pleased with her) as she had matured to the right age, and had gone through puberty at the age stated in the article, the proof is in the article, and i have to deliberate no more. End Qoute
    You can argue for years and years but it wont make a pennys difference.
    That article is not scientific. Show me a scientific website that proves your point. Can you tell me, given that there are now 3 year olds who are menstruating, would you criticise and follow Mohammed were he to have sex with these children? You can claim she was old enough to understand what was going on all you want but she was playing with dolls when she was wed and moved into his home. It is amazing that you are defending paedophillia, what does he have to do for you to forsake him? It wouldn't matter what he'd done, even if he'd raped babies and bathed in their blood you would still follow and defend him because you a thoroughly brainwashed.
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    I can't believe I wasted my time on this thread... :facepalm: I'm Muslim and the OP embarrasses me.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    That article is not scientific. Show me a scientific website that proves your point. Can you tell me, given that there are now 3 year olds who are menstruating, would you criticise and follow Mohammed were he to have sex with these children? You can claim she was old enough to understand what was going on all you want but she was playing with dolls when she was wed and moved into his home. It is amazing that you are defending paedophillia, what does he have to do for you to forsake him? It wouldn't matter what he'd done, even if he'd raped babies and bathed in their blood you would still follow and defend him because you a thoroughly brainwashed.
    The proof is in the article, at the time it was okay at that age to get married as a women had matured.
    You cannot include the example of babies because that would never happen.
    No matter how much you argue its not going to change anything. End Quote
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    The proof is in the article, at the time it was okay at that age to get married as a women had matured.
    You cannot include the example of babies because that would never happen.
    No matter how much you argue its not going to change anything. End Quote
    There is a lot of evidence which indicates that the age of puberty was considerably higher two thousand years ago.
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    Who cares if he was a paedo or not?
    Put him on the sex offenders register and talk about something constructive.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    Who cares if he was a paedo or not?
    Put him on the sex offenders register and talk about something constructive.
    Interesting proposition.

    I tried (+) repping you, but it appears that I'v repped u before and am unable to do so until another 28 days.
    So here's another imaginary green one (not that mine are worth many points).
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    The proof is in the article, at the time it was okay at that age to get married as a women had matured.
    You cannot include the example of babies because that would never happen.
    No matter how much you argue its not going to change anything. End Quote
    It has happened:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle683176.ece
    You cannot stand 2 girls next to each other and tell which one has mensturated and which one has not. Therefore menstruation is not the defining factor in whether or not someone is ready to have sex. Please answer my question, would you defend Mohammed if he had sex with those 3 year olds who have come on? Your article just states that women matured earlier, it doesn't prove it by essence of saying it, it needs some scientific or historical proof from valid sources.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Interesting proposition.

    I tried (+) repping you, but it appears that I'v repped u before and am unable to do so until another 28 days.
    So here's another imaginary green one (not that mine are worth many points).

    lol, ta!
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    It has happened:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle683176.ece
    You cannot stand 2 girls next to each other and tell which one has mensturated and which one has not. Therefore menstruation is not the defining factor in whether or not someone is ready to have sex. Please answer my question, would you defend Mohammed if he had sex with those 3 year olds who have come on? Your article just states that women matured earlier, it doesn't prove it by essence of saying it, it needs some scientific or historical proof from valid sources.
    Are you sure your degree isn't in Islamophobia?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    It has happened:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle683176.ece
    You cannot stand 2 girls next to each other and tell which one has mensturated and which one has not. Therefore menstruation is not the defining factor in whether or not someone is ready to have sex. Please answer my question, would you defend Mohammed if he had sex with those 3 year olds who have come on? Your article just states that women matured earlier, it doesn't prove it by essence of saying it, it needs some scientific or historical proof from valid sources.
    Well the prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) woudnt do that with a 3 year old girl, that is obvious. End Quote
    And for another time, the proof is in the article, but you choose not to take that proof, so that is up to you. Your article is also a misinterpetation of historical texts. End Quote
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    Well the prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) woudnt do that with a 3 year old girl, that is obvious. End Quote
    And for another time, the proof is in the article, but you choose not to take that proof, so that is up to you. Your article is also a misinterpetation of historical texts. End Quote
    It seems obvious to me that anyone who is a true prophet of God would not do that to a 3 year old, but the same is true of a 9 year old too. You have shown by saying that he wouldn't do it to a 3 year old, whether they are on or not, that there are markers that a child must pass before they get married beside just menstruating. I would like to know what the difference between a 9 year old and a 3 year old, because I can see very little besides a slight increase in basic intelligence but not emotional intelligence.

    There is no proof in that article. People can write anything on the internet, so linking to just a statement saying that people menstruated earlier in the past proves nothing. I have actually shown you scientific evidence showing that over time the age of menstruation has lowered, not gone up.

    The simple fact that Mohammed was a paedo has made thousands, if not millions, of people leave or not join Islam. Why would God tell him to do such a foolish thing, that undermines him and his religion so much? It seems to be God told him to do a lot of stuff that was beneficial only to him.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Are you sure your degree isn't in Islamophobia?
    I'm looking at the facts here and applying basic logic to them, how is that Islamophobia? The only question that needs to be answered is this:

    1) Did Mohammed have sex with a 9 year old girl?

    You all admit the answer to this is yes, and whilst the culture of the time may have been an excuse for ordinary citizens behaviour it most certainly is not for someone who professed to be in direct contact with God.

    There are other obvious reasons I dislike Islam, but to say that it is an illogical dislike or fear is ridiculous. I like Muslims but I dislike Islam, and this dislike of Islam stems from the fact Muslims follow Mohammed who was not a fine man to follow.
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    I can't believe people here are defending a paedophile having sex with a 9 year old. And you wonder why muslims get such a bad name? I tell you what: when you have children, let your imam have sex with her/him when they reach 9 years of age, and see whether it's so acceptable then.
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    I think there are some merits to the ban. Firstly its not saying Muslims arent allowed to practice their religion, they still can. Burkah is a cultural ideal that unfortunately does not intergrate well with western society. As a muslim, even I get freaked out by the Burkah. it was designed to be used in the middle east, during a time when there were few moral laws and barbaric actions against women.

    The western world does not have this anymore, or at least not as bad as during the time of the prophet pbuh. The biggest problem I have with fundamental muslims is that they embrace a backwards lifestyle in a world that is consistently developing. This dosent mean that they cant not practice thier religion, it just means that they have to respect that they are immersed in a different culture, just as my family had to do when they moved to Britain.

    I am scared however, of where this will lead. Where do the restrictions stop ? Every day I see these posts and worry that the backlash against extremist islam will affect the moderates and those who have intergrated the most..
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I'm looking at the facts here and applying basic logic to them, how is that Islamophobia? The only question that needs to be answered is this:

    1) Did Mohammed have sex with a 9 year old girl?

    You all admit the answer to this is yes, and whilst the culture of the time may have been an excuse for ordinary citizens behaviour it most certainly is not for someone who professed to be in direct contact with God.

    There are other obvious reasons I dislike Islam, but to say that it is an illogical dislike or fear is ridiculous. I like Muslims but I dislike Islam, and this dislike of Islam stems from the fact Muslims follow Mohammed who was not a fine man to follow.
    Oh God. I don't care what others have said in this thread. You're probably confusing me with other members. I do not agree that Muhammad PBUH consummated his marriage with Aisha when she was 6 or 9.

    One important point that must be made is that there is no such Islamic scholars' certification board to represent all Muslims or represent an accurate interpretation of the religion.Not only do we have differences between Sunnis, Shias, Ahmadiyyas. But even within Sunnis there appears to be great differences in interpretation. Even as a non-Muslim, you are certainly entitled to your view of the Hadeeth and the Quran.

    An overwhelming number of scholars claim that a person is not allowed to touch the Quran without having done his/her abolution. Now how on Earth is a non-Muslim supposed to learn about Islam, because by Islamic standards unless he/she converts to Islam, his/her wudu(abolution) will never be a valid one?
    The answer is simple- These scholars are incorrect. Now there is no representative of Allah SWT to verify and validate the scholars' claim unfortunately which is why the basic Shahadah of us Muslims says: I bear witness that there is no God but God and that Muhammad is His Messenger. These scholars are not Messengers of God (We believe, you don't)

    Ironically, you will find Islamic 'scholars' who would be willing to kill other Islamic 'scholars' who oppose their views, instead of wanting to kill George Bush. And no, this isn't an exaggeration.

    Allah has claimed in the Quran to free it off corruption. He has made no such claim with the Hadeeth. No matter how authentic a Hadeeth is, it has left certain things to be left to our interpretation and it is not the direct word of God, unlike the Quran. The Quran too has certain ambigious parts, but unlike the Hadeeth none of the verses are questionable (according to us Muslims). No matter what these 'scholars' tell you, to this day there is no yes/no answer to whether music is haraam in Islamic or not. Certain parts of the Hadeeth do attach a negative connotation to music, but when looked at in context of where it was being said, it is reasonable to believe that its not exactly haraam.

    I don't wish to argue with you but you simply chose to ignore the article I gave you. You simple quoted the last line regarding the Jews and made a mockery of it, instead of presenting any of your counter arguments. I have 2 different English translations of the Quran with me and I checked the corresponding verses that are evidence indicating that Aysha was roughly 16-19 years old (at least) with the relevant Hadeeth. Unfortunately I don't have access to any credible source of the Hadeeth except the one in the Islam-Judaism-Soceity-or-something-section of the University of Southern California's website. They have a compilation of the English translation of the Hadeeth. (which has been interpreted by God knows who). Yet,when I did check, they matched perfectly. I know that you wouldn't make any such effort, I dont expect you to.

    Allah sent the Prophet PBUH precisely for this reason; to assist us in implenting Islamic qualities in our day to day lives. The Prophet PBUH was sent to supplement the Quran. According to Islamic thought, you don't have to answer to God for not listening to some random Islamic scholar. We'v been given the brains, the Books. We can decide what's moral, what's immoral, what's right what's wrong (at least everyone with a conscience is expected to do so). There is no additional requirement to have a fanatic to come and teach me where I'm going wrong. Not everyone has access to scholars, yet nearly everyone can have access to the Quran (those who can't afford to buy one can go to the mosque and read it for free).

    I do not believe Prophet Muhammad was a paedophile (May Allah forgive you,me, all of us for even discussing something as horrendous as this.) You are at the end of the day entitled to your opposing view. However that remains wholly irrelevant to this topic, I don't get why these idiotic Islamophobic moderators don't remove these irrelevant posts about paedophilia, when it has nothing to do with the title and when they can remove my posts and surely this one will be removed in a minute

    Regardless of your views it would be appreciated if you quit this obsession of yours hating our Prophet and maintain a level of civilness for us to be able to respect you while debating with you.

    Plus, I'd rather have you hate me and other Muslims than Islam.

    Peace.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I like Muslims but I dislike Islam, and this dislike of Islam stems from the fact Muslims follow Mohammed who was not a fine man to follow.
    There is nothing wrong with questioning the acts of Prophet Muhammad PBUH or any religious figure. But you make it very clear from your arguments about your pre-conceived idea about Prophet Muhammad PBUH being a paedophile without even starting to deal with the evidence. You make it quite distinctly visible that yours is not a curiousity, but rather an in born hate towards this religion manifested perhaps through the surrounding propaganda regarding Islam which you have failed to remain immune to.

    And, I just have to say that the last line was a really cheap attempt to prove your neutrality. You sound exactly like Geert Wilders. There is no good reason to like Muslims in general and no better reason to hate Islam.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    There is nothing wrong with questioning the acts of Prophet Muhammad PBUH or any religious figure. But you make it very clear from your arguments about your pre-conceived idea about Prophet Muhammad PBUH being a paedophile without even starting to deal with the evidence. You make it quite distinctly visible that yours is not a curiousity, but rather an in born hate towards this religion manifested perhaps through the surrounding propaganda regarding Islam which you have failed to remain immune to.

    And, I just have to say that the last line was a really cheap attempt to prove your neutrality. You sound exactly like Geert Wilders. There is no good reason to like Muslims in general and no better reason to hate Islam.
    I don't pretend to be neutral anymore, I was neutral but the more I research independently the more I dislike Islam and the Islamic states around the world. The evidence we have is from the haddiths and the Quaran, and as you say it is down to my own morality to judge his actions, and my judgement is that they would not have been carried out by a man who is your equivalent of Jesus. It's not like I switched on the TV and it said 'ISLAM IS BAD!!!', quite the reverse in fact. I did my own research and my conclusion is my own. The reason I say I dislike Islam and not Muslims is because I know the Muslims who behave terribly would not do so were they not following someone I view as a tyrant.

    The sources/haddiths I am basing my opinion are all scientific or Islamic in nature. We can of course only guess what Aishas age was but it seems you are discounting evidence on the basis that it contradicts your beliefs. The article you linked me to didn't just attack Jews, it also made attacks on Iraq and other groups of people basically dubbing them 'non-Muslim' and their views and opinions as worthless. Needless to say if you were to come down on the side that Mohammed was a paedophile your view would just be discounted and thrown on the bonfire rather than taken seriously because peoples ears only hear what they want to. The paedophillia thing is just one of many accusations that could be leveled at Mohammed; there is also the slave owning, the rape, the murder of innocents etc. It just depends how you want to read history as to whether or not his actions were right and wrong, and the pivotal thing you need to believe if whether or not he was acting in this way because God told him to or because he was schizophrenic. I could easily worship Augustus of Rome right now, and say that he had God telling him what to do, but I don't because some of his actions were dispicable which leads me to the rational assumption that he is not worthy of worship or adoration.
 
 
 
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