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    (Original post by GottaLovePhysics! :))
    Stupid religion....

    When the muslim men begin to wear Burquas, then they may keep the right to wear them
    Your post is full to the bloody brim with undeniable logic

    /sarcasm :talkhand:
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    (Original post by RyanT)
    I agree with the French. It is France they are entitled to protect their culture from hostile influences. There is no obligation on France to be passive in the face of agents of other cultures working to shape the social space of France. The French are admirable for making a stand for their culture and I would certainly vote for any party in the UK offering the same within a heartbeat.

    I also think a lot of foreigners and ethnics confuse the values of the enlightenment with the values of Europe. There was a Europe before the propagation of "human rights" and there will be a Europe after it has gone. The essential argument of human rights or of ethnics in this thread is essentially that the "rights" of the individual take precedence over the rights of a society. A society is a living, breathing organic being - it lives in the hearts of many of us - it suggests which foods we eat, what language we frame our thoughts in, how we feel about social transgressions...the individual is only a vehicle for culture. We are defined by our culture, not by a personal identity transcending thus.

    Culture must take precedence, and veils must be eradicated. Vive la France =)
    Yeah they're called the BNP and I think they're facists tbh...We know where you stand
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    What about the anti-Semitism a lot of Muslims show? You would not allow a Jew to go to an Islamic country without being hated. Just look at the middle east conflict.
    Also, what about Mecca? Non Muslims cannot visit Mecca, nor can Churches be built in Mecca, when there are mosques appearing everywhere in the UK.
    If a country is kind enough to let you in, you do not disrespect the values and culture of that country by forcing your religion onto them. You follow the values of that country. A bit hypocritical if you ask me, you do all you can to move to the west, yet you hate the west and try to change it?
    Double standards isn't it? White Europeans don't flock to live in Islamic countries and try to change them, and if they did, you would be the first to complain. You are lucky we are very tolerant in Europe.
    This, it's their country they can do what they want. Although I personally believe that if it isn't harmful to anyone, Muslims can execute their religion in any form they wish.
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    (Original post by Mr. Orange)
    Hang on, I thought the Middle East conflict has something to do with some Muslims not wanting Jews there, also at this moment in time if I wanted to visit Mecca I'd have to convert to Islam. I'm ready to bet that not many adult Muslims living in France have lived there all their lives.
    If France was so kind enough to allow refugees and other immigrants into their country of an Islamic faith, the only equitable position would be to allow these individuals to practise their faith (as long as the practises don't come and harm you in anyway). You can't act all compassionate, let them in and now ask them to get out. Even though that's what you'v said I'm sure the French govt will not agree with you. If you let me into your country I will expect that I will be treated fairly and not discriminated against for my religion. You can't just go around taunting me, humiliating me and when i protest, you say "play by our rules or gtfo"
    Either let people stay in a free and fair manner or stop immigration altogether.
    More non-Muslims work in Saudi Arabia than you could imagine. They are only not allowed into Mecca and Madinah. If you have problems with Saudi policies, I suggest you write to the embassy of SA in your country instead of criticising Islam for it. There are several reasons why non-Muslims are barred from entering Mecca. If you had the common sense to understand that, you would know a lot of stuff about Hajj and you would know that even if non-Muslims are allowed into Mecca they shouldnt and couldnt be allowed into the Masjidul Haram and surrounding areas, along with several other religious sites. If they had to be in Mecca, they would have to abide by a strict Islamic dresscode otherwise the pilgrimage that Muslims perform there all year round 24/7 would be made pointless by one glimpse of excess revelation of the skin.
    Because they wish to avoid possible conflicts the best idea was to stop non-Muslims from entering altogether. Please get a survey done to check how many non-Muslims actually wish to enter Mecca.
    The immigrants wanted to go to France because (they thought) they were welcome in France.
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    Should we legalise female circumcision in the UK?

    It's a religious practice, and by the logic of many people here if banning the Burka is so bad why should we tolerate the removal of someone's right to mutilate themselves in whatever way they see fit?

    I would argue, in both cases, that in the end women's rights are strengthened in the respective communities.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    Should we legalise female circumcision in the UK?

    It's a religious practice, and by the logic of many people here if banning the Burka is so bad why should we tolerate the removal of someone's right to mutilate themselves in whatever way they see fit?

    I would argue, in both cases, that in the end women's rights are strengthened in the respective communities.
    In which religionis female circumcision promoted?
    Englighten me, will you sir?
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    (Original post by Dissey)
    This, it's their country they can do what they want. Although I personally believe that if it isn't harmful to anyone, Muslims can execute their religion in any form they wish.
    Very apt choice of words.
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    (Original post by Mr. Orange)
    If you don't like it there then you can always go live in another country
    Er.. what if you were Born in france... what if your ancestors faught for the allies in WW2, what if your country of origin was part of the French Empire for 200 years ? you have the right of freedoom of movement thought out the empire
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    They don't have to come to France. France doesn't want them. If you want to be a strict Muslim, go live in Saudi. If you want to be a strict Christian, go live in Alabama. If you are a civilized person, live in Europe
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    What's the difference between Muslims and ET?
    ET got the point and went home.

    Seriously, good for France. Full veils are horrible, they have no place in civilised western society. To be quite honest, no normal person wants muslims in their country - reverting back to medieval dress practices, if we can get as many as possible to go back to where they came from, that'd be great.
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    (Original post by Thomassss)
    Er.. what if you were Born in france... what if your ancestors faught for the allies in WW2, what if your country of origin was part of the French Empire for 200 years ? you have the right of freedoom of movement thought out the empire
    Would you defend the same freedom for a neo-nazi, even if said neo-nazi comes from a 200 year long line of people born in france, and his ancestors (strangely) faught for the allies in WW2? Or is Islam the only disgusting ideology you'll defend?
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    Because the ideas of Islam are absolutely ridiculous and don't deserve any respsect whatsoever?
    :lolwut: I am an atheist but I have to disagree, there are many ideas in Islam (and any other religion really) that arent ridiculous and that deserve respect.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    In which religionis female circumcision promoted?
    Englighten me, will you sir?
    Quite a few native and tribal African religions, and it is also retained as a cultural practise in some Christian and Muslim areas. Then they immigrate and want to carry out the same practises whilst living here, hence the ban.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)

    you come to the west then you play by our rules just as we do when we go to Islam states.
    i think this is a good point.
    Im not FOR the banning of these garments, but i dont think muslims can get a strong argument against it. France isnt calling an all out hate-war against islam by doing this, its just what they feel is the right thing to do.
    If a non muslim goes to an extremely islamic country we conduct ourselves in a way appropriate to islam and cover ourselves up, so if france dont want it that way then muslims should either respect that they should comply with the laws, or go somewhere else.
    I realise moving somewhere different wouldnt be preferable at all, but if your that passionate about the islamic rules of dress than maybe you'd be willing to.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    lololol
    I don't see the attraction to Islam anyway, just because you are born into it doesn't mean you shouldn't have the autonomy to make a choice for yourself whether you want to follow it. Why would any self respecting woman endorse a religion which views their gender in such disregard? Muslim women living in France should feel ******* liberated by this.
    Seriously how much do you know about Islam anyway to judge it so harshly?
    Have you ever asked yourself why over 20,000 women convert to Islam each year in America if the Islamic faith really oppresses women and denies them rights? Have you ever pondered over whether or not the information you get from the media is actually reliable and accurate?

    I know that muslim women do not feel the same way about their coverings as you do, in fact they feel the far from your opinions. Muslim women feel liberated when wearing the hijab, it allows people to treat them more like a person, we cannot deny that in these times and ages that women seem to be treated more like sex objects by men. The Hijab prevents this ensuring that these women are judged for who they are, their personality rather than other things that are less significant (i'm sure you understand what i am implying)
    I for one respect these women, standing up for there own rights, we say that western countries have freedom, right of thought and different opinions, well if these women wish to cover there head and whatsoever else, why do these 'freedom loving' nations want to opress them by forcing them not to wear as they please?
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    Yep. Agreed with Mr Orange. No one asked for Muslims to come to the west.

    I think you'll find, it was a majority who began to migrate after the first world war since countries such as Britain and France, needed employers due to their huge loss.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    Quite a few native and tribal African religions, and it is also retained as a cultural practise in some Christian and Muslim areas. Then they immigrate and want to carry out the same practises whilst living here, hence the ban.
    Precisely. Retained as a cultural practise in some Christian and Muslim areas.
    It has nothing to do with Islam at least as you have acknowledged that its a cultural practise that takes place in some Muslim areas. This invalidates your previously proposed logic. So I would advise you to stay on topic and avoid drifting off.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    Would you defend the same freedom for a neo-nazi, even if said neo-nazi comes from a 200 year long line of people born in france, and his ancestors (strangely) faught for the allies in WW2? Or is Islam the only disgusting ideology you'll defend?

    Nazism is a disgusting ideology which actively advocates killing jews,disabled people and gays .

    At the same time, if some one is Nazi in the comfort of their home then thats of

    Poltical Islam is wrong becuase it tries to still the view of a minority on a majority


    but the Full Veil has nothing to do with Enforcing you view on other people, ive seen boys perving on girls staring at their breasts you know what im talking about sure some girls love being the centre of attention , others may not

    for them their is the Veil
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Precisely. Retained as a cultural practise in some Christian and Muslim areas.
    It has nothing to do with Islam at least as you have acknowledged that its a cultural practise that takes place in some Muslim areas. This invalidates your previously proposed logic. So I would advise you to stay on topic and avoid drifting off.
    Islamic culture is informed by the Islamic religion, you idiot.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    None of the Laws in the Muslim countries that implement a certain dresscode are implemented with the purpose of causing inconvenience to non-Muslims or to discriminate against non-Muslims. Its for the people in their country-as simple as that. Whether you go there for a holiday, or to live there you must abide by those rules and those rules are not/will not be imposed upon you solely for being a non-Muslim.

    However, the banning of the veil comes as a discrimination against Muslims because its an Islamic thing and it definitely does specifically target Muslim women who choose to practise this. Its certainly not imposing anything upon non-Muslims. To argue that its not discriminatory (whether in a negative sense or not) would be quite silly.
    I've said I have nothing against non-Muslims having to live by Muslim morals/laws while in Muslim countries, so I agree with you about the first paragraph. If you are in a Muslim country you should respect Muslim culture.

    In western culture however, many people find the wearing of full veils oppressive and perhaps offensive, just as if I went to a Muslim country wearing a mini skirt and a strappy top it would be unnacceptable as that would be offensive to them.

    Also, in many Muslim countries, non-Muslims would not be allowed to wear symbols of their faith (crosses etc), as openly practicing any religion other than Islam is illegal.
 
 
 
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