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France moves closer to banning full Muslim veil!!! watch

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    I think its not the Veils which are hated, but by judging on some of the comments, i think its hate against Islam and Muslims...Whether YOU believe it to be a disgusting ideology or not, but democracy speaks when it comes to law
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    If we went to a muslim country we would HAVE TO abide by their dress codes and rules, so why shouldnt they abide by ours.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    I did! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO DO?????????????:mad:
    Calm it down, it's attitudes like that, that make muslims look bad. :/
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    (Original post by Thomassss)
    Nazism is a disgusting ideology which actively advocates killing jews,disabled people and gays .
    And Islam actively advocates the killing of apostates, jews, and gays :teehee:

    At the same time, if some one is Nazi in the comfort of their home then thats of

    Poltical Islam is wrong becuase it tries to still the view of a minority on a majority


    but the Full Veil has nothing to do with Enforcing you view on other people, ive seen boys perving on girls staring at their breasts you know what im talking about sure some girls love being the centre of attention , others may not

    for them their is the Veil
    It has nothing to do with enforcing a view on other people? The fact is that MANY muslim women are either forced, or are subjected to extremely strong social pressure to wear the veil.
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    (Original post by becomingbindy)
    I've said I have nothing against non-Muslims having to live by Muslim morals/laws while in Muslim countries, so I agree with you about the first paragraph. If you are in a Muslim country you should respect Muslim culture.

    In western culture however, many people find the wearing of full veils oppressive and perhaps offensive, just as if I went to a Muslim country wearing a mini skirt and a strappy top it would be unnacceptable as that would be offensive to them.

    Also, in many Muslim countries, non-Muslims would not be allowed to wear symbols of their faith (crosses etc), as openly practicing any religion other than Islam is illegal.
    But wasn't western sociey supposed to be the most advanced and accepting? Theres is no point keeping laws with the European convention stating - Freedom for anyone to practise any religion, when its really contradicting itself.

    Its not many Muslim countries which will not let you practise other religions in public, its 4. In Saudi Arabia, the only 2 places which must be Islam are Mecca and Madina, Egypt, Morroco and i think the fourth one is Yemen, if im not wrong.

    But i don't understand how the Veil offends YOU.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    And Islam actively advocates the killing of apostates, jews, and gays :teehee:





    It has nothing to do with enforcing a view on other people? The fact is that MANY muslim women are either forced, or are subjected to extremely strong social pressure to wear the veil.

    No, the Veil is Optional, ask the many Muslim women who wear it


    Islam killing jews ? :p: :p: :p: what about Jews living in Iran, or Jews who lived in muslim countries before the creation of Isreal :p:

    What about the churches in and Sikh Gudwaras in Pakistan :p: :p: :p:

    what about Christians in Dubai ? many ethnic russians live with christen Russians peacefully

    as for gays, its not just muslim who think being gay is a disease
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    Islamic culture is informed by the Islamic religion, you idiot.
    Listen up you ******, that guy said "as a cultural practise in some Muslim and Christian areas."
    Of course certain areas will have people of certain religion, that doesn't make those practises belong to that religion. The practise of honour killings come from Islamic countries, doesn't make it Islamic.

    Even if he meant it comes from Islam- its incorrect because female circumcision is not promoted in Islam.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    WTF????
    WHY CAN'T FRANCE RESPECT THEIR RELIGION???????
    MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY????
    PEOPLE LIKE U DISGUST ME!:mad:
    FAMILIES, KIDS, PEOPLE LIVED THERE ALL THEIR LIVES AND NOW YOU ASK THEM TO ...MOVE????????????!!!!!!
    AND WHAT ABOUT THE POOR PEOPLE??????
    WHAT CAN THEY DO????
    It's not THEIR FAULT THEY ARE FOLLOWING THEIR RELIGION!!!!!
    MUSLIMS DON'T ASK PEOPLE FROM OTHER RELGIONS TO MOVE OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY!!!!
    GOD PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE JUST DAMN STUPID!!!!

    Edit: this goes to EVERYONE who says or agrees to what this idiot said
    Wow you're annoying. Firstly, it is their fault they are following their religion. Who else could possibly be at fault there? You dont see people being frog-marched into mosques, or being held down whilst having a burqa forced on your head (although I bet that does happen in some ****** up countries somewhere). I'm a Christian, and it is my "fault". I choose to be one.
    Secondly, no, Muslims dont ask people from other religions to move out of their country - they just execute them :rolleyes: - in Saudi Arabia you could face the death penalty for practising any other religion that isnt Islam.
    In Dubai, you could face imprisonment for drinking, or having sex before or outside of marriage, because guess what, it conflicts with Islamic law. In Afghanistan a woman (Muslim or not) may be publicly lashed and beaten for showing her arms, because, and here we go again, it conflicts with Islam.

    So you are rather wrong and naive there. Muslim countries have incredibly strict legislation combined with very harsh punishments that everybody, regardless of faith, has to adhere to. I'd have to wear appropriate dress in strictly Muslim countries despite not being Muslim - so why the hell shouldnt they do the same?
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    (Original post by becomingbindy)
    I've said I have nothing against non-Muslims having to live by Muslim morals/laws while in Muslim countries, so I agree with you about the first paragraph. If you are in a Muslim country you should respect Muslim culture.

    In western culture however, many people find the wearing of full veils oppressive and perhaps offensive, just as if I went to a Muslim country wearing a mini skirt and a strappy top it would be unnacceptable as that would be offensive to them.

    Also, in many Muslim countries, non-Muslims would not be allowed to wear symbols of their faith (crosses etc), as openly practicing any religion other than Islam is illegal.
    I understand what you're saying but as I'v said elsewhere that some of the actions that you just referred to such as not allowing you to practise your religion openly, wear the cross etc. are not Islamic laws tbh. They have been inserted by the rulers. I don't speak for them.
    And I don't mean to be sarcastic or anything but it would be disappointing to see France or the UK justifying its actions by comparing itself with what countries like Saudi Arabians do. I hold France and the UK to a much higher level and they should come nowhere near to be compared with SA.

    Another point is that many Muslims have lived for many years in France and in Europe in general. So to suddenly bring about an obstacle to their religious practises is unfair. If, prior to their entry they were told that they would have to abide by any restrictions imposed on on their religious practises, it is reasonable to believe that they would give it a second thought and say to themselves "Am I actually going into this country for a better life."
    Now, they have clearly been cornered. Plus, another major reason why many Muslims didnt envisage such problems is because back then, (if you're familiar with the political scenario at that time) the Muslim world had a very good relationship with the West. Ironically, ESPECIALLY Saudi Arabia. Back then the conflicts did not concentrate so much on Islam.
    So my point was that non-Muslims haven't been living in SA for years and are now not being imposed with new, unique restrictions. Muslims have lived in France for ages, but only now the banning of the veil is raising some eyebrows along with the banning of the minarets in switzerland etc etc. And, Iv repeated this many times, but only a handful of the countries strictly abiding by the Sharia law imposes these rules, not all Muslim-majority countries and not all of their actions actually reflect Islam.
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    (Original post by Bobo1234)
    Normally I agree with much of what you have ti say but...well would you have the UK government (or any government for that matter). Ban hoodies, scarves, balaclavas etc because they can be used to disguise one's face and make it easier to commit crimes?

    Why punish the majority for the crimes of a minority?
    Tbf, I probably shouldn't have said it's easier for them to commit crimes beacuse I'm sure that barely any Muslim women commit crimes. You can still see people's faces when they wear a hoody. Almost all people who wear balaclavas while walking down a street are going to be up to no good.

    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    You can't act all compassionate, let them in and now ask them to get out. (Yes you can, if the majority of French people don't like what immigrants do then so be it) Even though that's what you'v said I'm sure the French govt will not agree with you. (What bit are you talking about here) If you let me into your country I will expect that I will be treated fairly and not discriminated against for my religion. You can't just go around taunting me, humiliating me But I don't do that and never would) and when i protest, you say "play by our rules or gtfo"
    Either let people stay in a free and fair manner or stop immigration altogether.
    More non-Muslims work in Saudi Arabia than you could imagine. They are taunted and humiliated They are only not allowed into Mecca and Madinah. If you have problems with Saudi policies, I suggest you write to the embassy of SA in your country instead of criticising Islam for it.Since when did I say that converting to Islam would be a problem for me? All I said was that I would have to convert to Islam if I wanted to go There are several reasons why non-Muslims are barred from entering Mecca.
    The immigrants wanted to go to France because (they thought) they were welcome in France. They thought wrong then. Tough titties
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    (Original post by KayK)
    But wasn't western sociey supposed to be the most advanced and accepting? Theres is no point keeping laws with the European convention stating - Freedom for anyone to practise any religion, when its really contradicting itself.

    Its not many Muslim countries which will not let you practise other religions in public, its 4. In Saudi Arabia, the only 2 places which must be Islam are Mecca and Madina, Egypt, Morroco and i think the fourth one is Yemen, if im not wrong.

    But i don't understand how the Veil offends YOU.
    It doesn't offend me. I said in western culture some people may be offended- many non-Muslim people in France are very much offended by the wearing of the full veil. I live in an extremely multicultural area of London, I'm not personally offended by it.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Precisely. Retained as a cultural practise in some Christian and Muslim areas.
    It has nothing to do with Islam at least as you have acknowledged that its a cultural practise that takes place in some Muslim areas. This invalidates your previously proposed logic. So I would advise you to stay on topic and avoid drifting off.
    Yea, I never said it was anything to do with Islam, I was drawing parallels with existing laws in our own country, and I think it's a very valid point.

    If France is so illiberal in this instance, then do I wonder the same people support the legalisation of female genital mutilation in this country, which is banned for pretty much the same reasons. It is not a case of France being anti-Islamic, it is a case of France supporting female emancipation within a very segregated part of it's society.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    And Islam actively advocates the killing of apostates, jews, and gays :teehee:
    Islam does not promote killing Jews, a living proof of how Islam should be interpreted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlwc0mE0lCU
    That guy Hassan is one of my friends' older brother.
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    (Original post by peanut65)
    nobody asked britain to colonise India.
    Agreee 100% buddy.

    Well said.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    And the lady has a point in saying that Muslims don't force Christians and other religions from wearing the hijab in a Muslim country...
    * Saudi Arabia is another story, as THEY are an example of EXTREMISTS and something that Islam does not approve of. Like the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that the best thing is to be in the MIDDLE, not TOO free and not too EXTREME....
    After all, Islam is simple and easy and doesn't force people to do things they don't like. God made everything easy for us....
    Even so, if a women went to a lot of countries and didn't wear a hijab, she'd get so much hassle it wouldn't be worth living (e.g. in Iraq, Afghanistan or Somalia, even certain parts of Egypt).
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Listen up you ******, that guy said "as a cultural practise in some Muslim and Christian areas."
    Of course certain areas will have people of certain religion, that doesn't make those practises belong to that religion. The practise of honour killings come from Islamic countries, doesn't make it Islamic.

    Even if he meant it comes from Islam- its incorrect because female circumcision is not promoted in Islam.
    :rofl: Its annoying when people confuse cultural practices with religious ones but I have a question for you. Do you think the wearing of the veil is a cultural or religious practice?
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    Islam does not promote killing Jews, a living proof of how Islam should be interpreted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlwc0mE0lCU
    That guy Hassan is one of my friends' older brother.
    Are you really that stupid? "how Islam should be interpreted", and what exactly makes you the authority on that? Because last time I checked, the vast majority of worldwide Muslims (i.e, those living in Muslims theocracies in the middle east) are VERY anti-semitic. The Quran has verses which specifically call for the killing of Jews ([9:29] "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low" ). And you have the nerve to stand up and say that that's not the real interpretation? Disgusting.

    Oh by the way, you might want to check out this logical fallacy before you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    What about the anti-Semitism a lot of Muslims show? You would not allow a Jew to go to an Islamic country without being hated. Just look at the middle east conflict.
    Also, what about Mecca? Non Muslims cannot visit Mecca, nor can Churches be built in Mecca, when there are mosques appearing everywhere in the UK.
    If a country is kind enough to let you in, you do not disrespect the values and culture of that country by forcing your religion onto them. You follow the values of that country. A bit hypocritical if you ask me, you do all you can to move to the west, yet you hate the west and try to change it?
    Double standards isn't it? White Europeans don't flock to live in Islamic countries and try to change them, and if they did, you would be the first to complain. You are lucky we are very tolerant in Europe.
    That would only be a double-standard if Islam teaches you to be anti-semetic etc,

    Also, no-one is forcing religion onto anyone by wearing item x,

    Muslims do not flock to Europe, trying to change it,

    most of what you said it completely invalid to be honest.
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    I dislike the face-covering veil and what it stands for, but I think this is an illiberal move.

    I disagree with it.

    If a french woman wants to cover her face because it's cold, will she be stopped and asked to remove her scarf from her face? Because that seems ridiculous.
    So if a muslim french woman wants to cover her face, to me the reason doesn't matter - there should be no double standards for religion, and I think that goes both ways.

    If it was just - entering banks or something, then I would understand the need for everybody's face to be exposed in that situation. And I don't think you should be allowed to cover your face if it is against the rules of your workplace/employer. For example, women working in a hospital or a school (or even just a shop - if their employer has a uniform regulation that means faces must be exposed) shouldn't be able to use religion as an excuse for covering their face inappropriately (like I said - no double standards, noone else is allowed to cover their face in those situations).

    But I think just in public, not in a professional capacity, people should be able to dress as they wish.

    I might agree with it being against the law to force young girls to wear total coverings - but of course it is very difficult as a child coming from that background is likely to agree with whatever their parents tell them.
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    (Original post by _mimi_)
    :rofl: Its annoying when people confuse cultural practices with religious ones but I have a question for you. Do you think the wearing of the veil is a cultural or religious practice?
    the veil that covers the face is a cultural practise which has evolved from the Islamic practise of wearing the hijab. It is not necessary for women to wear the veil according to Islam. Well at least to my interpretation of Islam. But to specifically ban the veil which is exclusively used by Muslim women is reason to be believe the ban was discriminatory.
 
 
 
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