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France moves closer to banning full Muslim veil!!! watch

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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    Are you really that stupid? "how Islam should be interpreted", and what exactly makes you the authority on that? Because last time I checked, the vast majority of worldwide Muslims (i.e, those living in Muslims theocracies in the middle east) are VERY anti-semitic. The Quran has verses which specifically call for the killing of Jews ([9:29] "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low" ). And you have the nerve to stand up and say that that's not the real interpretation? Disgusting.

    Oh by the way, you might want to check out this logical fallacy before you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
    That quotation could be interpretted in many ways; I, personally, do not think it is calling Muslims to kill Jewish people.

    I, for one, am not anti-semetic in the slightest.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100115/...dding_the_veil

    ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!!!!

    Just to clear things up for confused people:

    1) HIJAB--> is what covers the woman's hair and is a MUST in Islam
    2) Niqab or Burqua--> what covers the face and is NOT a must in Islam
    3) Abaya--> What covers the woman's body.
    (REASON!) in order not for her chest, arms, legs, or any other visible skin to show. ONLY face and hands are ok to show. A woman might choose to NOT wear the Abaya and that is FINE as long as she wears a dress to cover the mentioned parts.

    But seriously, France is so ***** STUPID in doing this!
    And the lady has a point in saying that Muslims don't force Christians and other religions from wearing the hijab in a Muslim country...
    * Saudi Arabia is another story, as THEY are an example of EXTREMISTS and something that Islam does not approve of. Like the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that the best thing is to be in the MIDDLE, not TOO free and not too EXTREME....
    After all, Islam is simple and easy and doesn't force people to do things they don't like. God made everything easy for us....
    i can understand the banning of burquas and abyas because people can take advantage of wearing these to commit crimes and not get recognised, the women will still be able to wear a Hijab so they can still abide by the laws of there own faith, and the united kingdom isn't entirely innocent as far as banning national/religious dress seen as though we have banned kirpans and sgian dubhs (although most jocks still wear the latter)
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    I did! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO DO?????????????:mad:
    Put a temporary ban on you.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    **** you! How do you know we don't say the EXACT SAME THING about you lot?
    FYI u ignorant little pest, not only are churces not allowed to be bulit INSIDE Mecca, but also mosks. Mecca IS like one HUGE entire mosk, so how can you build something INSIDE mecca when itself is a mosK?
    And let me tell u a short story of what happened before. There was this Caliph called Abu Bakr al Sadeeq. He was the Prophet's (PBUH) best friend and one day went to visit in a Chrisitan country. He went inside the church and welcomed him and everything. Then he exucused himself to go pray, and one of the popes told him to pray inside the church. The Caliph refused. The pope was offended in a way and asked for a reason. The Caliph smiled at him and told him that he simply didn't want to pray inside the church because if HE DID, then once he dies, he knows that his Muslim companions would bulit a mosk in a place he prayed and so he did not want the church to be destroyed or having a mosk built on it.
    See HOW LOYAL AND SINCERE THEY WERE BEFORE?
    And so the Caliph went and prayed outside the church and infact after he died, his Muslim friends bulit a mosk there, and so it was next to the church. It is in a county now that I have forgotten where the mosk and church are next to each other.
    Thing is, LOOK AT HOW FAITHFUL the Caliph was of other religions!
    Yes but this is one of the problems ie your use of the word 'was'.It is quite obvious that tolerance and protection of other religions was inherent in islam.Now it seems impossible to be a christian in an islamic country with christian communities coming under direct attack.Why are muslims demanding adherence to the burkha etc,but not adherence to the other aspects of the faith such as tolerance. In the uk we have very little problems with hindu's,sikhs,buddhist etc -even though all those religions have had problems in their mother countries at various times. I feel sure that anti-islamism (and i nearly converted to islam myself once ,so i am not anti true islam myself) in the uk has come about because the extremist community has been too long tolerated by our liberal elites,who should have been supporting moderate muslims,and we have an extremist community that is demanding tolerance but not prepared to offer it.Since books were burned on the streets of britain ie the satanic verses(and book burning has always been associated historically with evil regimes) we should have made it clear that extremist islam has no place in the uk. I find it strange that extremist muslims support osama bin laden,but he himself said that muslims should not live in non-muslim countries.
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    (Original post by Lauren__x)
    If we went to a muslim country we would HAVE TO abide by their dress codes and rules, so why shouldnt they abide by ours.
    You guys don't have a dress code :p:
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    Well done.
    It shows that the French are not willing to role over like puppy dogs, like our politicians.
    What one must also remember, if the French are not tolerant of in-your-face religion.

    Maybe some see this as problematic because we are too tolerant - Tolerance And Apathy Are The Last Virtues Of A Dying Society (Aristotle) - Britain fits that bill very nicely.
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    (Original post by You-Rock-My-World)
    What about the anti-Semitism a lot of Muslims show? You would not allow a Jew to go to an Islamic country without being hated. Just look at the middle east conflict.
    Also, what about Mecca? Non Muslims cannot visit Mecca, nor can Churches be built in Mecca, when there are mosques appearing everywhere in the UK.
    If a country is kind enough to let you in, you do not disrespect the values and culture of that country by forcing your religion onto them. You follow the values of that country. A bit hypocritical if you ask me, you do all you can to move to the west, yet you hate the west and try to change it?
    Double standards isn't it? White Europeans don't flock to live in Islamic countries and try to change them, and if they did, you would be the first to complain. You are lucky we are very tolerant in Europe.

    "Kind enough to let you in" LOL. You make it sound as if the majority of the people are leeching off the system. The chances are however that the majority of law abiding, tax paying, hard working Muslim Citizens should have the right to practice their religion fully.

    And mate, no Churches in Saudi? Last time I checked there wasnt a Mosque in the Vatican? So really certain religious places should be kept in certain ways.

    And "Hypocrytical" is colonizing a country, encouraging immigration with the reward of hard labour jobs which Lower/Middle White class british people are too pompous to take up. And then turning around and saying you cant practice the religion you follow fully.

    Double standards are saying that Muslims and immigrants leech off the system, where really the majority of people are white middle and lower class citizens. I mean, have you ever watched Jeremy Kyle?
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    good on them

    they have more balls than us it seems
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    (Original post by Peace'n'loveman)
    Yes but this is one of the problems ie your use of the word 'was'.It is quite obvious that tolerance and protection of other religions was inherent in islam.Now it seems impossible to be a christian in an islamic country with christian communities coming under direct attack.Why are muslims demanding adherence to the burkha etc,but not adherence to the other aspects of the faith such as tolerance. In the uk we have very little problems with hindu's,sikhs,buddhist etc -even though all those religions have had problems in their mother countries at various times. I feel sure that anti-islamism (and i nearly converted to islam myself once ,so i am not anti true islam myself) in the uk has come about because the extremist community has been too long tolerated by our liberal elites,who should have been supporting moderate muslims,and we have an extremist community that is demanding tolerance but not prepared to offer it.Since books were burned on the streets of britain ie the satanic verses(and book burning has always been associated historically with evil regimes) we should have made it clear that extremist islam has no place in the uk. I find it strange that extremist muslims support osama bin laden,but he himself said that muslims should not live in non-muslim countries.
    To be fair, it's these 'extremists' who are giving Islam a bad name; it's annoying :rolleyes:
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    Lol hell no they can't do that. All hell will break loose. Can't they respect our religion? wtf?
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    GOD PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE JUST DAMN STUPID!!!!
    Oh, the irony....it's just too much. Next time, don't write in capitals and actually discuss the debate like the rest of us and we might take you seriously.

    In my opinion, France can do what they like, it's their country, in fact I applaud them for tackling such a sensitive issue well.
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    Where there is a woman in a full Muslim veil, there is usually an extremist man behind her forcing her to wear it. Hopefully it will lead to a freer society in France, or better still make the extremists go home. In case the OP wondered, there are no Muslim countries where Christians are safe from persecution.
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    Glad to see France finally grew a pair. If only the UK would.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    Yea, I never said it was anything to do with Islam, I was drawing parallels with existing laws in our own country, and I think it's a very valid point.

    If France is so illiberal in this instance, then do I wonder the same people support the legalisation of female genital mutilation in this country, which is banned for pretty much the same reasons. It is not a case of France being anti-Islamic, it is a case of France supporting female emancipation within a very segregated part of it's society.
    Two thumbs up sir, you are absolutely right
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    Are you really that stupid? "how Islam should be interpreted", and what exactly makes you the authority on that? Because last time I checked, the vast majority of worldwide Muslims (i.e, those living in Muslims theocracies in the middle east) are VERY anti-semitic. The Quran has verses which specifically call for the killing of Jews ([9:29] "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low" ). And you have the nerve to stand up and say that that's not the real interpretation? Disgusting.

    Oh by the way, you might want to check out this logical fallacy before you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    No I'm not stupid because I don't choose to follow the arrogant/ violent and prejudiced interpretations of Islam. Im intelligent enough to understand (and so should you) that no tranlsation of the Quran is a translation of the Quran, they are translations of different interpretations of the Quran.

    Those translations that you refer to are mostly financed and backed up radical Saudis mainly the Wahabis. If you were really that impartial and open minded you would have referred to some of Al-Azhar's translations. If you choose to view the position of Islam that way, I have nothing to do. It clearly doesn't suit my interpretation, nor does that make any sense because the Prophet himself associated in a friendly manner with people of other religions.

    You have very nicely tried to diver the topic with the No true Scotsman fallacy. Its funny how you completely ignored the Christians who were on that train and attacked the Jews calling them f-ing dirty Jews and the fact that a Muslim man all alone came to help confronting 10 people. There's no need to teach me about such fallacies. If you really understood the fallacy, you would know its COMPLETELY irrelevant to what I have said. A scotsman is by birth a scotsman, that remains unchanged, even if he goes and lives in Africa. Although i have no right to say this, a so-called Muslim who commits acts that are wholly contradicting and condemned by Islam can be fairly called a kaffir. Killing innocent people regardless of religion would strip one off the right of being a Muslim-not by me, by God.
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    (Original post by Phobia27)
    Oh, the irony....it's just too much. Next time, don't write in capitals and actually discuss the debate like the rest of us and we might take you seriously.

    In my opinion, France can do what they like, it's their country, in fact I applaud them for tackling such a sensitive issue well.
    I think it's just quite obvious that the OP is passionate about his/her religion, but I don't agree French have tackled this issue well :/
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Where there is a woman in a full Muslim veil, there is usually an extremist man behind her forcing her to wear it. Hopefully it will lead to a freer society in France, or better still make the extremists go home. In case the OP wondered, there are no Muslim countries where Christians are safe from persecution.
    That is a complete generalisation, and every woman I know who wears the veil does it because she wants to wear it; I disagree with you completely.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100115/...dding_the_veil

    ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!!!!

    Just to clear things up for confused people:

    1) HIJAB--> is what covers the woman's hair and is a MUST in Islam
    2) Niqab or Burqua--> what covers the face and is NOT a must in Islam
    3) Abaya--> What covers the woman's body.
    (REASON!) in order not for her chest, arms, legs, or any other visible skin to show. ONLY face and hands are ok to show. A woman might choose to NOT wear the Abaya and that is FINE as long as she wears a dress to cover the mentioned parts.

    But seriously, France is so ***** STUPID in doing this!
    And the lady has a point in saying that Muslims don't force Christians and other religions from wearing the hijab in a Muslim country...
    * Saudi Arabia is another story, as THEY are an example of EXTREMISTS and something that Islam does not approve of. Like the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that the best thing is to be in the MIDDLE, not TOO free and not too EXTREME....
    After all, Islam is simple and easy and doesn't force people to do things they don't like. God made everything easy for us....

    You're obviously a butthurt muslim extremist.

    All muslims are extremist but they just dont all show it, only people like Choudary are the vocal ones. The entire muslim communty goes quiet.

    You are a sick extremist muslim.
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    (Original post by cucumber sandwich)
    Two thumbs up sir, you are absolutely right
    But they are not supporting female emancipation, if the women want to wear their religious clothing.

    It's so unfair that these so-called 'extremists' have given Islam a bad-name
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    (Original post by moh2009)
    "Kind enough to let you in" LOL. You make it sound as if the majority of the people are leeching off the system. The chances are however that the majority of law abiding, tax paying, hard working Muslim Citizens should have the right to practice their religion fully.

    And mate, no Churches in Saudi? Last time I checked there wasnt a Mosque in the Vatican? So really certain religious places should be kept in certain ways.

    And "Hypocrytical" is colonizing a country, encouraging immigration with the reward of hard labour jobs which Lower/Middle White class british people are too pompous to take up. And then turning around and saying you cant practice the religion you follow fully.

    Double standards are saying that Muslims and immigrants leech off the system, where really the majority of people are white middle and lower class citizens. I mean, have you ever watched Jeremy Kyle?
    I've watched Jeremy Kyle before, and the interesting thing I noticed is that a lot of the wife beaters come from Muslim homes, and they do not seem to give a damn or think it is even slightly wrong to beat their wives. Now, I know Islam sanctions wife beatings, but I had no idea the veil was there so others couldn't see their bruises.

    And claiming that this country needs Muslims is like claiming we need a whole in the head. Do you really think, given all the trouble and expense of Muslims, it is worth having them here? For starters the women barely ever work, and they pump out an insane amount of children. So even if the dad is working his minimum wage job they are still being subsidised with the white mans taxes. If Muslims were so good, why is there not one decent Muslim state to live in in the world? The best they can do is become oil rich, if they weren't on oil they would be on par with Africa.
 
 
 
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