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    (Original post by tldr22)
    You're obviously a butthurt muslim extremist.

    All muslims are extremist but they just dont all show it, only people like Choudary are the vocal ones. The entire muslim communty goes quiet.

    You are a sick extremist muslim.
    oh my gosh, :p:
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    (Original post by notepad)
    That is a complete generalisation, and every woman I know who wears the veil does it because she wants to wear it; I disagree with you completely.
    Name a Muslim state where Christians aren't being persecuted then? In fact name a Muslim state where Christians can worship freely. You can claim what you like about your friends and family and the veil, but the fact of the matter is the veil is almost exclusively worn by the more extremist members of the community. And most women didn't need them before, it is only after 9/11 that they've started popping up all over the place.
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    (Original post by honeyisgoodforyou)
    AND WHAT ABOUT THE POOR PEOPLE??????
    WHAT CAN THEY DO????
    It's not THEIR FAULT THEY ARE FOLLOWING THEIR RELIGION!!!!!
    d
    Fault? It's their choice.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    That quotation could be interpretted in many ways; I, personally, do not think it is calling Muslims to kill Jewish people.

    I, for one, am not anti-semetic in the slightest.
    I could point you towards a dozen quotes which call Jews apes, cursed by God, evil people, etc.

    If you go to Palestine, do you think the Muslims there believe that their religion can't be interpreted as saying "kill Jews"?

    The fact is, you willingly choose to ignore the scripture of the religion you claim to follow. If you're happy with doublethink, then that's fine with me - I'd rather that than you believe what your Quran actually says. However don't for one moment try to pretend that yours is the "correct" interpretation.
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    All I can say is that I applaud France for supporting their own principles in the face of extreme pressure. Religion needs to lose a great deal of its influence in modern secular societies
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    (Original post by tldr22)

    All muslims are extremist but they just dont all show it, only people like Choudary are the vocal ones. The entire muslim communty goes quiet.
    Who is this Choudary?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Name a Muslim state where Christians aren't being persecuted then? In fact name a Muslim state where Christians can worship freely. You can claim what you like about your friends and family and the veil, but the fact of the matter is the veil is almost exclusively worn by the more extremist members of the community. And most women didn't need them before, it is only after 9/11 that they've started popping up all over the place.
    Again, another generalisation.

    Can't Christians worship freely in Malaysia and Indonesia?

    Anyway, Islam doesn't discriminate against Christians etc. like that, Islamically, you can get married to a Christian woman so I do not see your point.

    It's these 'extremists' that have a problem with the rest of the world, not Islam itself :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    the veil that covers the face is a cultural practise which has evolved from the Islamic practise of wearing the hijab. It is not necessary for women to wear the veil according to Islam. Well at least to my interpretation of Islam. But to specifically ban the veil which is exclusively used by Muslim women is reason to be believe the ban was discriminatory.
    That is a confusing sentence :p: but I understand it hehe, I personally believe the wearing of the hijab is also a cultural practice but as you said that is according to my personal interpretation of Islam .
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    Well done France - now lets get a British government in who aren't afraid of breaking "community spirit" or political correctness, to have some common sense and take measures against the radical infiltration of our values.
    By the way France - copy Switzerland- lets have the minarets out as well
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    I could point you towards a dozen quotes which call Jews apes, cursed by God, evil people, etc.

    If you go to Palestine, do you think the Muslims there believe that their religion can't be interpreted as saying "kill Jews"?

    The fact is, you willingly choose to ignore the scripture of the religion you claim to follow. If you're happy with doublethink, then that's fine with me - I'd rather that than you believe what your Quran actually says. However don't for one moment try to pretend that yours is the "correct" interpretation.
    Palestine is a whole different situation, their population probably is very anti-semetic because of the wars etc. Same with going to Israel and being a muslim.

    No, I do not willingly choose to ignore the scripture of the religion that I do follow, how do you know that the Qur'an actually interprets quotation x like that? You're not a scholar, I would not take your word for it.
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    If Muslims are allowed to wear a full veil, I should be allowed to go to all the places they are in a balaclava - if a muslim woman can go in a bank in a veil, I should be able to go in one in a balaclava. If I'm not, she shouldn't be able to either.
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    (Original post by notepad)

    No, I do not willingly choose to ignore the scripture of the religion that I do follow, how do you know that the Qur'an actually interprets quotation x like that? You're not a scholar, I would not take your word for it.
    exactly. People are free to interpret the text the way they want to. There are some vague areas. But the verses he mentioned earlier don't have Jews explicitly stated. I have come across those translations and they say Jews in brackets and Christians too. That is how the translator interpreted it to be.

    But the fundamental practises are clearly outlined. There is no ambiguity regarding those. E.g. Killing of one innocent human being is equivalent to the massacre of entire humanity.
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    Muslims should go back to Afghanistan
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    (Original post by notepad)
    Again, another generalisation.

    Can't Christians worship freely in Malaysia and Indonesia?

    Anyway, Islam doesn't discriminate against Christians etc. like that, Islamically, you can get married to a Christian woman so I do not see your point.

    It's these 'extremists' that have a problem with the rest of the world, not Islam itself
    Islam does discriminate against Christians, are you blind to your own religion? In Malaysia you must apply directly to the state to build a church, which they will more than likely refuse, Muslims on the other hand can build as many mosques as they like. Those who convert to Christianity are imprisoned for 1 year as a form of rehabilitation. Furthermore they have banned some bibles from the country, making possession of them an imprisonable offence. And this is just persecution on the state level... shall we go into how your peaceful brothers treat them directly? Well, just 3 days ago those kind kind people fire bombed 8 churches as a retaliation to a court ruling that did not go there way. What a peaceful, and tollerant, group of people. We should fill our country with Muslims, they are such nice people to be around:rolleyes:.

    Lets look at how Christians are treated in Indonesia (which wasn't a Muslim country before, but is fast becoming it, however it will serve as good evidence for how Muslims will behave once they begin to grow in number in the UK). Well, Muslims have priority into state appointed positions. Your fellow Muslims have also burned over 600 churches in the country in the last 10 years.

    It baffles me how you can percieve Islam to be peaceful. Every single country in the world that has Muslims has trouble with their extremist tendencies. I mean, there are probably quite a few individual peaceful Muslims, but a lot are not, and that is because the Quaran can be so easily interpreted as extremist. If Mohammed was alive today I know which side he would be on as well, he would almost certainly be up in the Afghan mountains fighting against us.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    No I'm not stupid because I don't choose to follow the arrogant/ violent and prejudiced interpretations of Islam. Im intelligent enough to understand (and so should you) that no tranlsation of the Quran is a translation of the Quran, they are translations of different interpretations of the Quran.

    Those translations that you refer to are mostly financed and backed up radical Saudis mainly the Wahabis. If you were really that impartial and open minded you would have referred to some of Al-Azhar's translations. If you choose to view the position of Islam that way, I have nothing to do. It clearly doesn't suit my interpretation, nor does that make any sense because the Prophet himself associated in a friendly manner with people of other religions.
    I knew it was only a matter of time before someone started down the "that's an inaccurate translation!" route. Do you realise that as many Muslims would agree that this is a good translation as a bad one? Just because your preconceived world-view doesn't conform to this translation, doesn't mean that you can instantly dismiss it as being completely erroneous. In all the debates I've had with Muslims in my life, I've never once found one who can find me an "accurate" translation, yet most of them still read and obey the verses of the Quran that they do agree with.

    You have very nicely tried to diver the topic with the No true Scotsman fallacy. Its funny how you completely ignored the Christians who were on that train and attacked the Jews calling them f-ing dirty Jews and the fact that a Muslim man all alone came to help confronting 10 people.
    What makes you think that I'm defending Christianity? Christianity isn't as bad as Islam these days, but it's still bloody awful.

    There's no need to teach me about such fallacies.
    Evidently there is, because you just tried to justify your point by using one.

    If you really understood the fallacy, you would know its COMPLETELY irrelevant to what I have said. A scotsman is by birth a scotsman, that remains unchanged, even if he goes and lives in Africa. Although i have no right to say this, a so-called Muslim who commits acts that are wholly contradicting and condemned by Islam can be fairly called a kaffir. Killing innocent people regardless of religion would strip one off the right of being a Muslim-not by me, by God.
    You've completely misunderstood the whole point of the fallacy - hurrah for bad reading comprehension. The point is, if the vast majority of people claim to be performing an action in the name of the cause, then that action is condoned by the cause. Saying "oh but that action isn't condoned by real followers of that cause" is ridiculous for the simple reason that the vast majority of people who identify with that cause flat out contradict you.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I've watched Jeremy Kyle before, and the interesting thing I noticed is that a lot of the wife beaters come from Muslim homes, and they do not seem to give a damn or think it is even slightly wrong to beat their wives. Now, I know Islam sanctions wife beatings, but I had no idea the veil was there so others couldn't see their bruises.

    And claiming that this country needs Muslims is like claiming we need a whole in the head. Do you really think, given all the trouble and expense of Muslims, it is worth having them here? For starters the women barely ever work, and they pump out an insane amount of children. So even if the dad is working his minimum wage job they are still being subsidised with the white mans taxes. If Muslims were so good, why is there not one decent Muslim state to live in in the world? The best they can do is become oil rich, if they weren't on oil they would be on par with Africa.
    Dont you mean "hole" in the head? Now I know what type of guy Im arguing with. Another stupid stereotypical white guy, who thinks because there are people from different backgrounds doing well in modern day society, and because you're being left behind. Thats its unfair and all immigrants are bad and should be sent back. What a load of crap. Minimum wages? The last time I checked every hospital surgery in my city had at least 2 doctors that were Muslim.

    And you're probably blinded by your own surroundings, last time I checked Gordon Brown was making his speech saying that his Labour Party brought 500,000 children out of poverty. In all areas of the world there are good and bad. Slums and mansions. Your problem is you generalize, stereotypicalise and believe everything you read in the Sun or w.e crappy paper you pricks read.
    Its time people took a good long hard look at themselves and their failures before jumping on the bandwagon of best excuses to why they've failed in life and use clear concise logic and reasoning before coming out with crap like. "Lets blame the immigrants"

    LOL. Wife beaters on Jeremy Kyle from Muslim homes? Unless you could provide some proof for that, the point is invalid. I personally havent seen any of them.

    The LEDCs of this world, admittedly are made up of a number of Muslim countries, however. Before you start talking of corruption of our countries you'd have to go into the history of Britain plundering and invading other countries of their good and trade.

    Remember it isnt Britain itself thats made it Great today. Its the suffering and the invasion of other countries plundered of goods and raw materials which has made Britain so strong.

    Good state to live in?
    Dubai/Arab Emirates?

    One of the richest places in the world.
    Like I said every country lacks in areas, including Britain. If you're going to just ignore the history and concentrate on the modern day problems then your argument isnt just nor valid.

    Prick.
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    My viewpoint against the Burka is that it should be banned on grounds of local and national security - the security services should be able to identify individuals and the Burka is a barrier to this. It's exactly the same reason why motorcyclists are asked to remove crash helmets when entering shops or banks.

    On minarets, it's a town planning issue and the planning system already allows people to submit objections to them. Elected local councils in most cases are the ones who have the final say - unless it is particularly controversial in which case Central Government steps in, opens an inquiry headed by an independent planning inspector, who will call for and assess evidence and make a recommendation to the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government - who then has the final say.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    Palestine is a whole different situation, their population probably is very anti-semetic because of the wars etc. Same with going to Israel and being a muslim.

    No, I do not willingly choose to ignore the scripture of the religion that I do follow, how do you know that the Qur'an actually interprets quotation x like that? You're not a scholar, I would not take your word for it.
    Biggest cop-out ever.
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    (Original post by Yuppie20)
    Muslims should go back to Afghanistan
    Your sentence assumes that they all came from Afghanistan.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    Palestine is a whole different situation, their population probably is very anti-semetic because of the wars etc. Same with going to Israel and being a muslim.

    No, I do not willingly choose to ignore the scripture of the religion that I do follow, how do you know that the Qur'an actually interprets quotation x like that? You're not a scholar, I would not take your word for it.
    I suppose it is just a coincidence that Islam is the most extremist and intollerant religion on the face of the planet then? Nothing to do with many of the vile things written in the Quaran, or the life that Mohammed, which was hardly admirable.
 
 
 
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