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France moves closer to banning full Muslim veil!!! watch

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    (Original post by fireph)
    Well done France - now lets get a British government in who aren't afraid of breaking "community spirit" or political correctness, to have some common sense and take measures against the radical infiltration of our values.
    By the way France - copy Switzerland- lets have the minarets out as well
    :lolwut: I can see how you can justify the banning of the veil but getting rid of minarets :lolwut:.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    To be fair, it's these 'extremists' who are giving Islam a bad name; it's annoying :rolleyes:
    yes,yes,i am fortunate in that i personally know some moderate muslims. One in particular is humility personified,even though he is a Doctor. I feel sorry for these people being tarred with the extremist brush,particularly as some of them moved here because of attitudes in islamic countries. The doctor i know married an english girl when he was here training ,but he couldn't get a job in his own islamic country when they discovered he was married to a catholic. To be fair vestiges of such bigotry still exist in the west.
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    (Original post by Prince Rhyus)
    Your sentence assumes that they all came from Afghanistan.
    And from sentences like that you can assume the intelligence level of the people we're dealing with. Who, instead of trying to get to the root of the issue will just come up with something stupid stated above.
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    (Original post by Peace'n'loveman)
    To be fair vestiges of such bigotry still exist in the west.
    Let's have some examples of incidents comparable to the one you mentioned.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Islam does discriminate against Christians, are you blind to your own religion? In Malaysia you must apply directly to the state to build a church, which they will more than likely refuse, Muslims on the other hand can build as many mosques as they like. Those who convert to Christianity are imprisoned for 1 year as a form of rehabilitation. Furthermore they have banned some bibles from the country, making possession of them an imprisonable offence. And this is just persecution on the state level... shall we go into how your peaceful brothers treat them directly? Well, just 3 days ago those kind kind people fire bombed 8 churches as a retaliation to a court ruling that did not go there way. What a peaceful, and tollerant, group of people. We should fill our country with Muslims, they are such nice people to be around:rolleyes:.

    Lets look at how Christians are treated in Indonesia (which wasn't a Muslim country before, but is fast becoming it, however it will serve as good evidence for how Muslims will behave once they begin to grow in number in the UK). Well, Muslims have priority into state appointed positions. Your fellow Muslims have also burned over 600 churches in the country in the last 10 years.

    It baffles me how you can percieve Islam to be peaceful. Every single country in the world that has Muslims has trouble with their extremist tendencies. I mean, there are probably quite a few individual peaceful Muslims, but a lot are not, and that is because the Quaran can be so easily interpreted as extremist. If Mohammed was alive today I know which side he would be on as well, he would almost certainly be up in the Afghan mountains fighting against us.
    Umm ... :p:

    Well, I know Islam doesn't teach that. Anyonelse can also point out how Christians have commited x, y and z, as well as other religions, ironically, everyone labels muslims as soon as a muslim does something wrong.

    When Zidane head-butted the Italian football player a couple of years ago, why did the BBC have to report whether he was muslim or not? And whether he was a practicing muslim?

    I find it quite unfair.
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    The country belongs to the French, so the French can decide the laws in it. Good on the French for exercising this right.

    If you came to my house, I would expect you to take your shoes off- it's my house after all.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    Biggest cop-out ever.
    No, it wasn't.

    You all give your examples and then once someone says 'they're not following Islam' you either continue to give more examples about evil countries or you try to untangle a religion quotation; I don't think I anything more to say to you. It's simply the muslims who are constantly being targetted now, I wonder which ethnic/religious group is next on th elist :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by notepad)

    When Zidane head-butted the Italian football player a couple of years ago, why did the BBC have to report whether he was muslim or not? And whether he was a practicing muslim?
    Er what? That is fairly ridiculous. To claim Zidane was criticised because he was a Muslim is completely asinine. The media made absolutely no suggestion that his violent action was related to his faith.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Er what? That is fairly ridiculous. To claim Zidane was criticised because he was a Muslim is completely asinine.
    No, I did not mean that at all. I meant, what relevance did his religion have to do with it all? If Beckham had done the same thing, would the BBC report that Beckham was religion x?
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    (Original post by notepad)
    No, I did not mean that at all. I meant, what relevance did his religion have to do with it all? If Beckham had done the same thing, would the BBC report that Beckham was religion x?
    This is the article you are referring to, and it makes no reference to his religion.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...06/4991652.stm
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    (Original post by moh2009)
    Dont you mean "hole" in the head? Now I know what type of guy Im arguing with. Another stupid stereotypical white guy, who thinks because there are people from different backgrounds doing well in modern day society, and because you're being left behind. Thats its unfair and all immigrants are bad and should be sent back. What a load of crap. Minimum wages? The last time I checked every hospital surgery in my city had at least 2 doctors that were Muslim.

    And you're probably blinded by your own surroundings, last time I checked Gordon Brown was making his speech saying that his Labour Party brought 500,000 children out of poverty. In all areas of the world there are good and bad. Slums and mansions. Your problem is you generalize, stereotypicalise and believe everything you read in the Sun or w.e crappy paper you pricks read.
    Its time people took a good long hard look at themselves and their failures before jumping on the bandwagon of best excuses to why they've failed in life and use clear concise logic and reasoning before coming out with crap like. "Lets blame the immigrants"

    LOL. Wife beaters on Jeremy Kyle from Muslim homes? Unless you could provide some proof for that, the point is invalid. I personally havent seen any of them.

    The LEDCs of this world, admittedly are made up of a number of Muslim countries, however. Before you start talking of corruption of our countries you'd have to go into the history of Britain plundering and invading other countries of their good and trade.

    Remember it isnt Britain itself thats made it Great today. Its the suffering and the invasion of other countries plundered of goods and raw materials which has made Britain so strong.

    Good state to live in?
    Dubai/Arab Emirates?

    One of the richest places in the world.
    Like I said every country lacks in areas, including Britain. If you're going to just ignore the history and concentrate on the modern day problems then your argument isnt just nor valid.

    Prick.
    O dear, I made a spelling mistake, I should tear up my degree and fold my business:woo:. What a retard you are.

    I don't see any Christians clambouring under lorries, begging on their knees, travelling thousands of miles, to get into Muslim countries. Do you know why? Because they suck. The least you could do is acknowledge how much better this country is if you want to live here. Dubai and the UAE are rich because of foreign investment and oil money. They are just worthless blobs of sand otherwise.

    I didn't say that I wanted anyone sent back anywhere. I want the Muslims that are here to integrate, and for the flow of them into this country to stop because it is a one way street. So one hospital has at least 2 Muslim Drs? Wow. We could just replace them with a peaceful, hardworking, integrating, Hindu Dr, and have the best of both worlds. You say Britain is only great because it has plundered certain countries. This isn't true. Before Britain, and the rest of Europe for that matter, found a use for these raw materials they were worthless. You can hardly have a go at people in the 21st century for how their ancestors behaved. You also can't pretend that if an Islamic country had the intelligence to find uses for these raw materials they wouldn't have been 1000x worse than we ever were.

    Also, Muslim countries and Muslims themselves are so good, clever and hard working, that they don't have one noble prize in anything LOL.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    I knew it was only a matter of time before someone started down the "that's an inaccurate translation!" route. Do you realise that as many Muslims would agree that this is a good translation as a bad one? Just because your preconceived world-view doesn't conform to this translation, doesn't mean that you can instantly dismiss it as being completely erroneous. In all the debates I've had with Muslims in my life, I've never once found one who can find me an "accurate" translation, yet most of them still read and obey the verses of the Quran that they do agree with.
    What are you an Islamic scholar? I cant help but laugh at such a self-proclaimed DEBATOR WITH SO MUCH EXPERIENCE. TSR is your platform for debating on Islam at the elitest level?
    What on earth makes the interpretation of the Quran by a randomer like you more genuine?
    Infact, A Muslim who has been practising for years has more credibility in his interpretations. You have given me false idea saying that majority Muslims would agree to the killing of Jews. If you're definition of Jews means the Govt. of Israel and the IDF, thats a different issue because I wouldnt mind if someone put a bullet through Netanyahu's head and the IDF soldiers who'v committed war crimes.


    (Original post by Good Apollo

    You've completely misunderstood the whole point of the fallacy - hurrah for bad reading comprehension. The point is, if the vast majority of people claim to be performing an action in the name of the cause, then that action is condoned by the cause. Saying "oh but that action isn't condoned by [i
    )

    real[/i] followers of that cause" is ridiculous for the simple reason that the vast majority of people who identify with that cause flat out contradict you.
    You're a serious nutcase. Its amusing to talk to you, but i'll continue my discussion with you the day I become as useless as you to indiscrimnately target people who wish to whole heartedly follow their religion.
    You'r trying to say that the majority of the 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide interpret Islam in a violent way? :teehee:
    If that were the case, you'r head wouldn't be where it is my friend.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    This is the article you are referring to, and it makes no reference to his religion.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...06/4991652.stm
    I watched the report myself on BBC 1, and it did question his religious background.
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    well why france is banning it only for muslims.christian nuns also wear clothes similar to the abaya.MUSLIMS shud be given there rite to practice religious obligations.Its just that french are too afraid of Islam bein spread in there country so rapidly.
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    (Original post by Ludwig Wittgenstein)
    Weak man! That has sweet f.a to do with this issue.
    Er, not really. It has pretty much everything to do with the issue, if you're going to go down the road of "nobody asked them to come here." Whether you like it or not, we live in more of a global environment with people mixing. A lot of people would agree that's a tad better than everyone being segregated and white/non-Muslim people (although the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive) having some sort of authority... and, as the person you quoted pointing out, taking over different countries and cultures in the past. The point is, since we're going to continue to live in this sort of environment, we need to make sure everyone's given a good standard of life. Not much to ask for, surely?
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    (Original post by notepad)
    I watched the report myself on BBC 1, and it did question his religious background.
    What do you mean it questioned his religious background? You're telling me that the BBC referred to Islam in a derogatory fashion or that it questioned the validity of his faith?
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Let's have some examples of incidents comparable to the one you mentioned.
    What i mean to say is that it wasn't so long ago in historical terms that religious bigotry was alive and well here . I am sure that in certain parts of scotland and n.ireland it would still cause problems if a protestant and catholic got married. If a non-catholic marries a catholic there there is still a lot of pressure on the non-catholic to convert. Not so long ago it was compulsory. Moreover the couple had to give a written obligation that the children would be raised in the catholic faith.I believe this written obligation has now changed to a verbal one. Personally ,even though i am religious myself, i think all such obligations should be illegal in our society,not least forced marriage which is a form of bigotry.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    No, it wasn't.

    You all give your examples and then once someone says 'they're not following Islam' you either continue to give more examples about evil countries or you try to untangle a religion quotation; I don't think I anything more to say to you. It's simply the muslims who are constantly being targetted now, I wonder which ethnic/religious group is next on th elist :rolleyes:
    I'm actually having trouble trying to see how you can make yourself think this. Can you not see that your trying to make me believe, by blind faith, that you're telling the truth? If I put an extremist Muslim in front of you now, this is how the conversation between you two would go:

    You: You are not a real Muslim.
    Him: No, you are not a real Muslim.
    You: No, you are not a real Muslim.
    Him: No, you are not a real Muslim.

    So to who can an outsider conclude is the real Muslim? The answer is, whichever point of view is the most popular. And if you look at the worldwide beliefs of Muslims, the fundamental/extreme views are far more common. Thus, we can say that these people are indeed "real" Muslims. It doesn't matter how many times you tell me that you have faith that they are not real Muslims, the empiracle facts speak for themselves.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    ..
    No one has been able to present you with an accurate translation of the Quran because there is no accurate translation. I wouldnt say even my interpretation is an accurate one. THe only accurate version is the Quran itself. To understand which, we would have to learn arabic. Its sad that Muslims make the effort to learn English, French, Spanish, German and so many other languages but Arabic is at the bottom of their priorities.
    Now let me guess. No True Quran fallacy? no no no. There is a true version of the Quran, i.e. the Quran itself. If you really hate Islam so much and your relentless effort to trash this religion is so great, you will have to, unfortunately, learn Arabic. That too contemporary Arabic will not suffice
    You'll have to dig deeper into it. I didnt need to go to that level because I dont hate Islam or any other religion as much as you do. I also have no interest in turning religion into a love it or hate it obsession.
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    (Original post by notepad)
    Umm ...

    Well, I know Islam doesn't teach that. Anyonelse can also point out how Christians have commited x, y and z, as well as other religions, ironically, everyone labels muslims as soon as a muslim does something wrong.

    When Zidane head-butted the Italian football player a couple of years ago, why did the BBC have to report whether he was muslim or not? And whether he was a practicing muslim?

    I find it quite unfair.
    Just ignore the fact that I have proven you wrong and higlight one sentence of contention that you can argue with why don't you? Face facts: You have no right to complain about a minor infringement of your rights, when none of the countries these Muslims come from accept Christians in the slightest. Furthermore, we all know, that when Muslims are a high enough percentage of the population Christians will have to fear for their lives. It is no coincidence that the Quaran tells Muslims to do this, and they do it. Muslims have carried out almost 15,000 terror attacks since 9/11... if the Quaran didn't sanction this sort of behaviour I wonder how so many would feel the freedom to do such things.

    I reiterate my point; every country in the world where Muslims are the majority, Christians are unsafe. Every country in the world where Muslims are present has trouble with Muslim extremism. It is a fact.
 
 
 
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