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Men not allowed to sit next to children on BA flights - sensible or crazy? watch

  • View Poll Results: Should men not be allowed to sit next to children on planes in case of sexual abuse?
    Yes - it's a sensible idea! I hear it's a big problem nowadays.
    15
    3.82%
    No - it's completely stupid.
    378
    96.18%

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    Sure it's ridiculous, but what about the poor women? Now they have to sit by the little *******. I sure as hell wouldn't want to sit next to a kid on a flight, they might cry or spill their food or pick their nose and flick it about. Yuk.
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    (Original post by EarlHickey)
    Yeah was pretty boring after that and the ending really sucked as I hated how they made Jane softer but not willing to let go of Steve and Patrick and Sally becoming softer and settling down.

    On a side note did you know the woman who played Jeffs boss and girlfriend died of breast cancer a few years ago, I think that was why she left the series as she was ill.
    Oh no
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Yes, you're right rape cannot occur on a plane - and AFAIK there are no reported cases of child molestation or any form of child abuse on a plane either - neither of these crimes happen on planes. My analogy holds, unless you want to provide some evidence of these cases of child abuse purportedly happening on planes.

    Again, your logic is flawed. If its ok to stop men sitting next to children because supposedly children fine women 'less intimidating' (and I'd like to see you provide some source for this claim too, but for the sake of argument I'll presume you're right) than what if women found white men less intimidating than black men? Would it be ok to ban black men sitting next to women in this scenario?
    You can use the phrase 'your logic is flawed' all you like but it won't make it true.

    An adult woman is more able to deal with a creep/pervert than a child is. Are you trying to argue this? Really?

    Are you really - excuse me while I lol - trying to say a child is not more wary of a man than a woman? Mate you are deluded, there are some sick females out there but the ****** up men outnumber them 100 to 1 and children are instinctively aware of this. A child will feel more comfotable around a woman, rightly or wrongly women are seen as child protectors. Not all of them are, but that is how they are seen. Is an 8 year old girl more likely to want so sit next to an adult male or an adult female?

    The reason it's not the same for white people finding black people intimidating, is because that's their problem. It's their problem if they are racist. None of the things black men are known for - violent crime - can occur in a plane environment. The things men in general are known for - staring too long, being a bit creepy - can easily happen on a plane and a child would not to be able to navigate the situation like an adult could.

    In case you've forgotten, I'm still in no way advocating that men - once they are seated - should be moved. But if an airline wants to arrange things so that children are seated away from adult males then I am fine with that. I don't see why it's a problem so long as no one is refused a seat somewhere.

    Before you start ******** blood, no I am not saying all men are like this. It is the minority.
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    (Original post by Jose1989)
    Seriously crazy, if it was the case that women were not allowed to sit next to children on BA flights, there would be a huge uproar. Why are men perpetually villainised (if there is such a word!)
    I agree that the whole thing is crazy, but in answer to your question something like 97% of all crimes in the UK are committed by men. You can't bury your head in the sand and say there's no difference between men and women. Moving a man after he's being seated is taking it to a ridiculous level though.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    An adult woman is more able to deal with a creep/pervert than a child is. Are you trying to argue this? Really?
    Please don't put words into my mouth. Nowhere did I try and argue that. What I argued was that just like no rapes have happened on planes, neither has any cases of child abuse - something which you have made no attempt to disprove, presumably because you can't.

    Are you really - excuse me while I lol - trying to say a child is not more wary of a man than a woman? Mate you are deluded, there are some sick females out there but the ****** up men outnumber them 100 to 1 and children are instinctively aware of this. A child will feel more comfotable around a woman, rightly or wrongly women are seen as child protectors. Not all of them are, but that is how they are seen. Is an 8 year old girl more likely to want so sit next to an adult male or an adult female?
    Ok, lets say a child would feel safer sitting next to a woman than a man, fine. So what if I would feel safer sitting next to a white person than a black person? Does that make it ok to discriminate based on race? No - because feeling safer sitting next to a white person is based on illogical prejudices. Likewise, feeling safer sitting next to a woman is also based on illogical prejudices. Just like the majority of black people don't commit violent crime, the majority of males don't molest children - its an identical situation, but you are saying one is ok and the other isn't.

    The reason it's not the same for white people finding black people intimidating, is because that's their problem. It's their problem if they are racist. None of the things black men are known for - violent crime - can occur in a plane environment. The things men in general are known for - staring too long, being a bit creepy - can easily happen on a plane and a child would not to be able to navigate the situation like an adult could.
    You're right, it is someones problem if your rascist. Likewise, if you're sexist and you assume men are peadophiles, thats you're problem too. There is no difference.

    The difference between violent crime and 'staring too long' and 'being creepy' is that violent crimes are, well, crimes. Being creepy isn't a crime. You still haven't showed me any evidence that men are likely to 'act creepily' towards children on a plane anyway. Just like violent crime doesn't tend to happen on a plane, neither does child abuse.

    In case you've forgotten, I'm still in no way advocating that men - once they are seated - should be moved. But if an airline wants to arrange things so that children are seated away from adult males then I am fine with that. I don't see why it's a problem so long as no one is refused a seat somewhere.
    I know exactly what you're saying, unfortunately you don't seem able to follow a logical argument. I will try and spell it out for you simply.

    Men are more likely to commit child sex offences. Likewise black people are more likely to commit violent crime. There is no difference here.

    What you are trying to argue is that it is not possible to discriminate against black people because violent crime doesn't happen on planes anyway. My point is, neither does child abuse. If you want to refute this, please, show me some evidence. Until you do, your argument is null.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    It's not just BA policy, many european and US airlines have similar.

    Remember that it's also for the protection of the adult.
    Yeha but come on surely the child should have been moved seen as the guy was sat with his wife who is pregnant.

    I can remember when i was a kid we always sat with one of our parents usually me with dad in one row and Jane(dads second wife) with matt in another.
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    (Original post by burningnun)

    "...under the basic premises of English law, every man is innocent until speculated guilty."

    "And now, by the powers invested in me by the hysterical, uneducated masses..."

    :rofl:
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    wow this is ridiculous, why not just move the kid?

    So man are assumed to be paedophiles. Pretty sure woman can be too, and although more male paedophiles are caught and showed in the media, wouldn't surprise me if more women got away with sexual abuse(touching) then we realise.

    Anyway at 12 you pay an ADULT fair on BA, so...they class him as an adult for a ticket price, but not for who he can sit next to...:p:
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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    Couldn't he have just switched seats with his wife?

    Edit: Which I know isn't the point - he shouldn't have had to move seats in the first place.
    well she isn't full-term yet, Id say he might be able to reach over her abdomen and get to the kid, JUST.:p:
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    I agree that the whole thing is crazy, but in answer to your question something like 97% of all crimes in the UK are committed by men. You can't bury your head in the sand and say there's no difference between men and women. Moving a man after he's being seated is taking it to a ridiculous level though.
    I am not burying my head in the sand; it is quite clear that the vast majority of crimes are performed by men. However, my comment "why are men perpetually villianised" refers to those men who are the good ones and don't go around doing god knows what. Let's remember that it's 97% of all crimes in the uk are commited by men, not 97% of all men commit crimes.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Please don't put words into my mouth. Nowhere did I try and argue that. What I argued was that just like no rapes have happened on planes, neither has any cases of child abuse - something which you have made no attempt to disprove, presumably because you can't.
    Can you prove there haven't been cases of child abuse on planes? And as I've said before, it's not really about child abuse. It's about children - particularly young girls - feeling less comfortable around a male stranger than a female one. Even I, an adult female, feel tenser sitting next to a man than a woman, because every incident of strange behaviour I've encountered has come from a male not a female, and I have drawn natural conclusions from that.

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Ok, lets say a child would feel safer sitting next to a woman than a man, fine. So what if I would feel safer sitting next to a white person than a black person? Does that make it ok to discriminate based on race? No - because feeling safer sitting next to a white person is based on illogical prejudices. Likewise, feeling safer sitting next to a woman is also based on illogical prejudices. Just like the majority of black people don't commit violent crime, the majority of males don't molest children - its an identical situation, but you are saying one is ok and the other isn't.
    It's not an identical situation, because children need looking after more than adults do. Adults can take care of themselves.

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    You're right, it is someones problem if your rascist. Likewise, if you're sexist and you assume men are peadophiles, thats you're problem too. There is no difference.
    OH MY GOD. WHY ARE YOU STILL USING THE PHRASE 'ASSUME MEN ARE PAEDOPHILES'

    I seriously think you might have problems. Why can't you understand? Why can't you understand that all anyone is saying is that men are statistically more likely to be paedophiles?

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    The difference between violent crime and 'staring too long' and 'being creepy' is that violent crimes are, well, crimes. Being creepy isn't a crime. You still haven't showed me any evidence that men are likely to 'act creepily' towards children on a plane anyway. Just like violent crime doesn't tend to happen on a plane, neither does child abuse.
    Being creepy is not a crime, but BA is a private airline. It knows that if it's passengers aren't happy with their flight they might nto go on it again. Can you blame them fro doing anythign they can to make everyone's journey as enjoyable as possible? By the way, it might well be that BA have this rule not jsut because children feel safer around women, but because women are more patient around children? Perhaps the child might be annoying or start crying or something (I'm aware the children travelling aren't babies, but some children can still be like that at 9 or 10)

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    I know exactly what you're saying, unfortunately you don't seem able to follow a logical argument. I will try and spell it out for you simply.
    Do you really? You can tell me all you like I 'can't follow logic' it won't make it true.

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Men are more likely to commit child sex offences. Likewise black people are more likely to commit violent crime. There is no difference here.
    Thing is, we're not just talking about men potentially committing sex offences, *see above*

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    What you are trying to argue is that it is not possible to discriminate against black people because violent crime doesn't happen on planes anyway. My point is, neither does child abuse. If you want to refute this, please, show me some evidence. Until you do, your argument is null.
    *see above*
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    It's crazy, especially if it's not just the child and the man sitting together, which almost impossible as seats in planes are usually 3 not 2. And everything is so exposed, even if you did get a man with a twisted mind, everything would be pretty obvious and stopped!

    I think it is all too extreme.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Can you prove there haven't been cases of child abuse on planes?
    Why the hell would I have to prove there haven't been cases of child abuse? You do know its innocent until proven guilty right?

    And as I've said before, it's not really about child abuse. It's about children - particularly young girls - feeling less comfortable around a male stranger than a female one. Even I, an adult female, feel tenser sitting next to a man than a woman, because every incident of strange behaviour I've encountered has come from a male not a female, and I have drawn natural conclusions from that.
    Feeling less safe around men is just like feeling less safe around black people, an illogical prejudice loosely related to statistics, in that yes men statistically commit more crime in the same way yes black people statistically commit more crime. However, that doesn't justify racism - and refusing to sit next to a black person is racism - and therefore it also doesn't justify sexism - and refusing to sit next to a man is sexist. If someone told me they're worried about sitting next to a black person, I'd tell them to sort themselves out. Likewise, if you are worried about sitting next to a man, you need to sort yourself out. There is no difference.

    It's not an identical situation, because children need looking after more than adults do. Adults can take care of themselves.
    But as there are 0 cases of children being abused on planes, there is no evidence that children need to be protected from abuse on planes. It just doesn't happen, whether you sit next to a man or not.

    OH MY GOD. WHY ARE YOU STILL USING THE PHRASE 'ASSUME MEN ARE PAEDOPHILES'
    Because thats exactly what this policy does.

    I seriously think you might have problems. Why can't you understand? Why can't you understand that all anyone is saying is that men are statistically more likely to be paedophiles?
    Ok, and all I'm trying to say is black people are statistically more likely to steal stuff, does that make it ok to discriminate against them because they might steal stuff off the person sitting next to them?

    Being creepy is not a crime, but BA is a private airline. It knows that if it's passengers aren't happy with their flight they might nto go on it again. Can you blame them fro doing anythign they can to make everyone's journey as enjoyable as possible?
    Obviously they didn't make this journey very enjoyable for this guy or they wouldn't be getting sued.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Can you prove there haven't been cases of child abuse on planes? And as I've said before, it's not really about child abuse. It's about children - particularly young girls - feeling less comfortable around a male stranger than a female one. Even I, an adult female, feel tenser sitting next to a man than a woman, because every incident of strange behaviour I've encountered has come from a male not a female, and I have drawn natural conclusions from that.
    It's not an identical situation, because children need looking after more than adults do. Adults can take care of themselves.
    OH MY GOD. WHY ARE YOU STILL USING THE PHRASE 'ASSUME MEN ARE PAEDOPHILES
    I seriously think you might have problems. Why can't you understand? Why can't you understand that all anyone is saying is that men are statistically more likely to be paedophiles?
    Being creepy is not a crime, but BA is a private airline. It knows that if it's passengers aren't happy with their flight they might nto go on it again. Can you blame them fro doing anythign they can to make everyone's journey as enjoyable as possible? By the way, it might well be that BA have this rule not jsut because children feel safer around women, but because women are more patient around children? Perhaps the child might be annoying or start crying or something (I'm aware the children travelling aren't babies, but some children can still be like that at 9 or 10
    Do you really? You can tell me all you like I 'can't follow logic' it won't make it true.
    Thing is, we're not just talking about men potentially committing sex offences, *see above*
    *see above*
    I see a problem in that its one of those things that arent that understandable in the 21st century. I lol at the fact you think women are more patient around children that is a huge stereotype, just as you are guilty of saying you feel uncomfortable around men

    I feel uncomfortable around women and know other guys who do, does that mean that women should be asked by staff to not sit next to me. of course not.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Why the hell would I have to prove there haven't been cases of child abuse? You do know its innocent until proven guilty right?
    The second sentence doesn't logically follow the first, you say we should keep children away from men until an incidence of abuse occurs - why? We know that men are about 100 times more likely to do something to a child than a woman, and thus there is a lot of distrust towards men. That's what I'm getting at, not that it's likely for anthing to occur, but that many parents and children - rightly or wrongly - don't want the child to be around a man who is a total stranger. If you have a daughter of 8, and you had the option to sit her between two women or two men - which would you choose? You probably would never think it likely that the men are going to be creeps, but she herself would feel safer around women than men so you'd probably choose the two women. For your daughter and her comfort.

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Feeling less safe around men is just like feeling less safe around black people, an illogical prejudice loosely related to statistics, in that yes men statistically commit more crime in the same way yes black people statistically commit more crime. However, that doesn't justify racism - and refusing to sit next to a black person is racism - and therefore it also doesn't justify sexism - and refusing to sit next to a man is sexist. If someone told me they're worried about sitting next to a black person, I'd tell them to sort themselves out. Likewise, if you are worried about sitting next to a man, you need to sort yourself out. There is no difference.

    Who cares if the feeling is illogical when we're dealing with children? There's a feeling there. If the child is suffering because of this feeling and the man would not suffer by being seated somewhere else (so long as he's not asked to move publicly, as in this case he was) then why not seat children away from men. And as we've already talked about, it's not the same as racism, because black people are no creepier than white. Men ARE creepier than women however, if you don't think this is true then I can conclude you have never left the confines of your house.

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    But as there are 0 cases of children being abused on planes, there is no evidence that children need to be protected from abuse on planes. It just doesn't happen, whether you sit next to a man or not.
    Oh back to the abuse again. I'm afraid that the reason I - and presumably BA and all the other airlines that do this - feels the need to sit children away from men is not because abuse is likely, but because most young children would prefer to be next to a woman.

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Because thats exactly what this policy does.

    Ok, and all I'm trying to say is black people are statistically more likely to steal stuff, does that make it ok to discriminate against them because they might steal stuff off the person sitting next to them?
    It's safe to assume that if a black person can afford a BA plane ticket, he's unlikely to be stealing stuff.

    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Obviously they didn't make this journey very enjoyable for this guy or they wouldn't be getting sued.
    Invalid point, because I also agree it was completely mental to have asked this guy to move. The only thing I have defended is BA - or any airline - having a right to a loose policy where people can be seated in ways that are probably beneficial to them.

    For example, Muslim women kept away from males who are non-family

    Families and the elderly kept away from teenagers on a typical lets-get-smashed-and-get-herpes holiday

    Children next to women or other children, not adult males

    The mistake BA stupidly made was to ask someone to move when they were already seated, and hadn't actually done anything
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    Of course it's crazy. This is total crap, absurd regulations made up just to impose more criminalisation and humiliation upon innocent people. I hope that the public backlash is enough to force BA to end this policy.
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    That is pathetic..not every man is "dodgey" (well hopefully :P)
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    (Original post by EarlHickey)
    I see a problem in that its one of those things that arent that understandable in the 21st century. I lol at the fact you think women are more patient around children that is a huge stereotype, just as you are guilty of saying you feel uncomfortable around men

    I feel uncomfortable around women and know other guys who do, does that mean that women should be asked by staff to not sit next to me. of course not.
    First bit in bold - it's a generalisation based on truth. Not all women love children, not all men are bad with children. Most aren't. However, there is some truth in the stereotype that women are more patient and caring with children. If a child was crying due to being lonely and scared of flying - who'd be better at comforting them generally? A male or a female? Many males would feel uncomfortable.

    Second bit in bold - have you ever felt physically sick because a woman has been staring straight at you for 30 minutes while wearing a smile on her face that says *I'm going to use you to **** tonight*

    Have you ever had women put their hands down your trousers and have a grope as you pass them in the club?

    Do women yell at you from their cars when you walk in public places?

    If any of the above have occured, haev they occured regularly? Or one off occasions

    No, the reason you feel uncomfortable around women is - I assume - you don't know how to talk to them. You may correct me if I'm wrong. I seriously doubt you have experienced repetitive creepy behaviour from the female gender.
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    (Original post by Joseph90)
    I used my rep at midnight last night. Remember to remind me to rep you tomorrow.
    REP MEEEEEE

    Thanks
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    Bloody ridiculous.
 
 
 
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