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The Official top 20 Most targeted universities for 2010 reccruitment watch

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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    My problem with the term 'common sense' is that, by definition, if it's common than it does very little to set you apart. Similarly, as it is essentially diachronic, it says more about the way you have been bought up etc. Academic excellence is achieveable by many, intelligence cannot be taught - but someone can learn the best ways to function within a company, irrespective of their command of 'common sense' how ever one defines it.

    You may well be right that people from red bricks, in general, are more well rounded than the average person from an 'Oxbridge reject' uni (I honestly don't know) but I dont think that common sense will be paramount ahead of intelligence and ability.

    I think someone already pointed out that this list is misleading anyway.

    I have a hugh headache and stingy eyes though so If anything I am saying is worded terribly or deviates from cogency, I apologise.
    Well, I could start the whole arguement about whether this " common sense" is something that is not affected by upbringing but something installed at birth, rather like eye colour. But like yourself, I have a headache too, so I shall not. :p:
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    To be fair if you are going to spend money going to recruitment fairs you are going to go to large universities with good transport links. Most companies rely on their staff to do recruitment as an 'extra' to their day-to-day jobs so it is no suprise that major city universities are present and those in more far flung places are absent. In my experience most attendance at on-campus events is reactive, not proactive. Companies are more likely to turn up if asked rather than through actively asking to attend. Also I highly doubt this can take into account the large number of more informal departmental or society-based events that occur regularly at most universities.

    Of course, all of this doesn't stop anyone from applying for a job at any company.
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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    Of course, I would do the same =D.

    Leeds is a decent uni, I wasn't trying to say it was bad - just that I don't consider it to be as good as Durham =]
    I totally agree that it is a better uni too.
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    (Original post by davidcy147)
    Well, I could start the whole arguement about whether this " common sense" is something that is not affected by upbringing but something installed at birth, rather like eye colour. But like yourself, I have a headache too, so I shall not. :p:
    Sounds like a plan.

    Tbh this is not really an issue worthy or more than a few posts lol.

    Especially not with headache present D=

    Tis all good

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    (Original post by N-17)
    I'm so surprised St Andrews isn't up there!
    Me too actually I'm pretty happy about that.
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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    Sounds like a plan.

    Tbh this is not really an issue worthy or more than a few posts lol.

    Especially not with headache present D=

    Tis all good

    (Y)
    Good chap! :p:

    Need any paracetamol?
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    (Original post by davidcy147)
    that are very academically sound but are lacking a huge amount of common sense and social skills.
    And you know this how? Or is it just a stereotype?
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    (Original post by davidcy147)
    Good chap! :p:

    Need any paracetamol?
    Could certainly do with a few aye =[

    Will pop down tesco on the morrow if the problem persists :yes:
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    (Original post by Revolution is my Name)
    And you know this how? Or is it just a stereotype?
    I go to Leeds and I have been to Durham a lot to give philosophy talks, visit friends and a lot of people from my school have also gone to Durham too. What I have stated, I see to be the case. Not just a stereotype that I have used without experience.
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    One thing to note though is that Durham, Bath etc. have a higher quality of employer visiting, instead of loads of random ones. For example, Mckinsey, a world-leading consulting firm visits Bath, St.Andrews but not Manchester, Leeds etc.
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    (Original post by AfghanistanBananistan)
    So you don't consider LSE or Bath small then or specific in their focus? York is famous for having bad grad prospects (as is St Andrew's) and Durham ranked 7th the previous year so hardly out of sorts for Durham. Manchester is famously liked by employers, it may seem strange but it is and it has topped this survey for the last 3 years. It is a very goos university afterall.
    The singular and only reason Manchester is top is because it is the largest decent university. Do you really believe that it is so "magical" that recruiters target it because of the somehow outstanding quality of its graduates? No - it's because it is so large, so many students, economies of scale - as posted earlier.

    I recognise your name AfghanistanBananistan, you were a troll a long time ago and it appears you still are.

    Can you give the source for St Andrews and York having "famous" for having bad prospects? Thanks.


    (Original post by OhNO!)
    surprising that manchester has come ahead of UoL - I suppose that says something good about it. we have the best careers service in the country, maybe that has something to do with it. it's no massive surprise that somewhere like manchester has ranked above say, exeter or st.andrews though, is it?

    ah well, whatever this table means I suppose it's good news for me - if employers are coming to us, it should be easier for me to find a job.
    Not necessarily - sure there are more employers coming but not necessarily more employers per student - this is the key figure, which neither the article nor the OP makes any mention of. That means there is probably more competition for every employer that comes to your uni than for the smaller number of employers who go to smaller universities, where there are far fewer students.

    This list might as well be titled "What is the biggest redbrick?".


    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Remember the bigger the university the more likely employers are to target it - greater volume of students passing by their little booth things or turning up to their lunch talks
    Yep. Hits the nail on the head - I can't believe some people think this means "Manchester is the best university".
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    To be honest, unless you say which of the employers this is about, then it's of no use whatsoever; the majority of graduate jobs probably won't be affected by something like this as not all jobs target graduates from particular institutions.
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    strange that Durham are not higher...and St.Andrews isnt there at all
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    (Original post by davidcy147)
    Can you justify why? Rather than just stating an opinion without reason.
    Like you did you mean? Unfortunately i don't have the means, time or willingness to carry out research on the matter at hand, but i highly doubt better grades =/= lower common sense, i see no logic in such a statement, if anything it would infer the opposite. Social skills you may well have a point (as i said), more study would suggest less time spent socialising.
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    (Original post by M_E_X)
    Not necessarily - sure there are more employers coming but not necessarily more employers per student - this is the key figure, which neither the article nor the OP makes any mention of. That means there is probably more competition for every employer that comes to your uni than for the smaller number of employers who go to smaller universities, where there are far fewer students.
    I'm sure the employers don't have a quota of how many Manchester students' applications they can take, or how many Manchester grads they hire. In the context of country-wide recruitment, why would it matter how many students are at my particular university? The fact that there are more top employers coming to the Manchester careers and recruitment fairs, and giving talks and seminars than anywhere else is a positive thing for the university and its student body.


    This list might as well be titled "What is the biggest redbrick?".
    Why, because Manchester tops it? The rest of the list doesn't seem to wholly follow suit with that idea.
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    All the unis I've applied to are in the top 20.
    I've got offers from Manchester and Warwick though, so I must be doing something right?
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    I'm sure the employers don't have a quota of how many Manchester students' applications they can take, or how many Manchester grads they hire. In the context of country-wide recruitment, why would it matter how many students are at my particular university? The fact that there are more top employers coming to the Manchester careers and recruitment fairs, and giving talks and seminars than anywhere else is a positive thing for the university and its student body.




    Why, because Manchester tops it? The rest of the list doesn't seem to wholly follow suit with that idea.
    I agree that there are more recruiters going to your university, and that is a good thing. However, my point was that there probably isn't more recruiters, or more jobs, per student. So let's say Manchester has 40,000 students and every year 400 recruiters go there and have a huge job fair. If each recruiter has one job available (in this very simple example) then on average 1% of the student population can get a job.


    Two weeks later, St Andrews has its job fair. Now only 200 of the 400 employers can be bothered to come to this little part of Scotland, and as such we don't even appear in the top forty in this table. But, in this simple example, almost 3% of our 7,000 students can get a job. Now do you see why this table is worthless? It completely fails to take in to account the size of the university.

    Of course big universities attract more people to visit them (such as employers). The relevant facts would be how students from those universities actually get those jobs, how many employers there are per student, and how well placed students from that university are to get jobs.

    I do not believe Manchester would be first in any of those categories, and instead would look towards the universities at the top of the 'traditional' league tables such as Oxford, Cambridge and LSE.


    I agree that Manchester are top of the table. I agree that this means more employers visit there than other unis. I completely fail to see why this is significant, and because the table fails to take in to account university size, is almost completely useless.

    (Original post by Manitude)
    All the unis I've applied to are in the top 20.
    I've got offers from Manchester and Warwick though, so I must be doing something right?
    Yes; applying to big universities. Whether this is "right" or not is subjective.
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    (Original post by M_E_X)
    I agree that there are more recruiters going to your university, and that is a good thing. However, my point was that there probably isn't more recruiters, or more jobs, per student. So let's say Manchester has 40,000 students and every year 400 recruiters go there and have a huge job fair. If each recruiter has one job available (in this very simple example) then on average 1% of the student population can get a job.


    Two weeks later, St Andrews has its job fair. Now only 200 of the 400 employers can be bothered to come to this little part of Scotland, and as such we don't even appear in the top forty in this table. But, in this simple example, almost 3% of our 7,000 students can get a job. Now do you see why this table is worthless? It completely fails to take in to account the size of the university.

    Of course big universities attract more people to visit them (such as employers). The relevant facts would be how students from those universities actually get those jobs, how many employers there are per student, and how well placed students from that university are to get jobs.

    I do not believe Manchester would be first in any of those categories, and instead would look towards the universities at the top of the 'traditional' league tables such as Oxford, Cambridge and LSE.


    I agree that Manchester are top of the table. I agree that this means more employers visit there than other unis. I completely fail to see why this is significant, and because the table fails to take in to account university size, is almost completely useless.
    But employers aren't going to employ on a university by university basis. What employers are saying, right - we've got X amount of jobs for Manchester students coming to this fair, and X amount of jobs for St. Andrews students? Say if an employer went to a Manchester grad fair, and got 400 application form, and the same employer went to St. Andrews and got 20 application forms - they're not going to keep these pools of applicants separate and pick one employee out of the Manchester pool and one out of the St. Andrews pool. They'd pick several employees from a pool of 420. In which case, the size of the university doesn't particularly matter. The bonus of being at the Manchester grad fair is that you have even more employers who you can submit applications to.

    I'd also add that it isn't just employers going to universities for recruitment fairs. I've met with a lot of companies and employers, or heard them talk this year, and been helped with work placements and given work experience thanks to my university's careers service and the career based societies that I'm a member of.

    Anyway, the surprise isn't that employers are going to Manchester more than they are to St. Andrews - the surprise for me is that more are going to Manchester than they are to UoL.
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    (Original post by OhNO!)
    I'm sure the employers don't have a quota of how many Manchester students' applications they can take, or how many Manchester grads they hire. In the context of country-wide recruitment, why would it matter how many students are at my particular university? The fact that there are more top employers coming to the Manchester careers and recruitment fairs, and giving talks and seminars than anywhere else is a positive thing for the university and its student body.




    Why, because Manchester tops it? The rest of the list doesn't seem to wholly follow suit with that idea.
    There are more employers going to Manchester, but not more top employers in terms of earning potential etc. For example, as i said above mckinsey and many other world leading firms who don't need lots of graduates but a few excellent ones focus their reach like so:

    http://www.mckinsey.com/locations/UK...ng_Events.aspx

    You'll find that companies that don't have big recruitment budgets go to the bigger unis that are cheaper to access. Other companies don't have a problem getting up to St. Andrews.
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    (Original post by Crimsonchilli)
    strange that Durham are not higher...and St.Andrews isnt there at all
    Durham were seventh or so last year, they're eleventh now, might be in the late teens next year only to go back up. All universities go up and down.

    It's really not very suprising or strange if you think about it logically.

    Where are firms going to concentrate their efforts and resources? In our large universities and major cities/urban centres (with a considerable student population and public transport links so easy to get to). So London, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds, Bristol, Edinburgh, Birmingham etc.

    Cities like Durham and Bath sill have very good transport links and within a reasonable distance of our major urban centres (for Durham and Bath then that's Tyne and Wear and Bristol respectively). Being strong universities (Durham with considerable strength in both science and arts, Bath being more science and social science focused) they are still well targeted across the sectors.

    St Andrews doesn't offer the same transport links as these other universities. York's are decent, being on the East Coast mainline, but it's still a small city.

    It doesn't mean Manchester is a better university than St Andrews, or Leeds is better than York. It also doesn't strictly mean that a Leeds or Manchester student will be favoured (and it certainly doesn't mean that these jobs are only open to these heavily targeted universities). Just because St Andrews isn't featured in the top 20 it doesn't mean a graduate can't apply for a job at one of the companies and doesn't have a damn good chance of success.

    It should also be remembered that companies can target universities in more subtle ways and it's not just confined to major recruiment fairs but also socieities and CAS events througout the year.
 
 
 
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