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What on earth were Japan thinking with Pearl Harbor? watch

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    (Original post by channy)
    I'm not much of a history buff, but the fact is, nukes can only be used against large population sizes, and therefore can only be used as mass genocide, and thus, I would prefer any such weapon to not exist.

    Aaanyway, I'm off to watch BSG.
    Nukes can be used for genocide, but the point is that MAD is a sound theory. Without them, the USSR would have probably invaded Western Europe and conquered it. The existence of nukes kept a large percentage of the world free for all the cold war and if that's the price we pay for these weapons being in existence, I'm glad to pay it.

    Also, nuclear weapons were developed by both sides to attack not just cities but also large military formations. In the event of the war, the theory of escalation said that NATO would use nukes to stem the tide of the Soviet Army, and then the Russians would respond, and then we'd start launching bigger nukes which would result in nuclear war. This threat was why there was no conventional fighting in Europe 1950-1990.
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    what on earth was the US thinking with:
    Korea (not once but twice)
    what do you mean korea? they were trying to stop the soviets occupying the peninsula
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    (Original post by Jakko247)
    I am just watching the film now and I can't understand why Japan did such a thing? Surely it's like an ant attacking an eagle lol. What did they hope to achieve? And how could they be so unrealisitic?
    Wow, you must be really clever, using made up movies to gauge your perception of the real world. I am really envious.
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    (Original post by Gazule)
    Wow, you must be really clever, using made up movies to gauge your perception of the real world. I am really envious.
    Made up movies? Incase you didn't know, the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanse was a historical event.
    I am not naive enough to think that it happened exactly as it was depicted in the film; but the fact remains Japan attacked a major power capable of nuclear attacks and was firmly put back in its place.

    (Original post by Bishamon)
    You're taking historical cues from a Michael Bay film? My God.
    No, I'm not actually.


    (Original post by Student2806)
    The thinking was fairly sound. At the time, America wasn't the superpower it is today, and from a military perspective, Japan was its equal.
    Japan was its equal? America had the atomic bomb, I wouldn't call that equal

    (Original post by squelsh)
    Are you watching Pearl Harbor on Watch at the moment?? me too.
    I was yeah! Evelyn :rolleyes:

    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    It was very clever by the Japanese. But the main question you have to ask is, what on earth was the US thinking with:

    Hiroshima
    Nagasaki
    Vietnam
    Korea (not once but twice)
    Libya
    Grenada
    Panama
    Iraq (not once but twice)
    Afganistan
    Sad truth is America had the militaristic power and resources do launch these invasions without much resistance (or atleast sustain them) whereas Japan didn't have much hope in its aims as was proved fairly quickly.
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    I'm fairly sure that they didn't have access to nuclear weapons at that point. If they did, Japan didn't know; they only found out about the atomic bomb after the first one was dropped on Hiroshima, as far as I know.
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    I wouldn't accept anything you see in a Hollywood film as historical fact. Otherwise you'd be like "Where is Rose from the Titanic now??"
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    (Original post by Jakko247)
    Made up movies? Incase you didn't know, the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanse was a historical event.
    I am not naive enough to think that it happened exactly as it was depicted in the film; but the fact remains Japan attacked a major power capable of nuclear attacks and was firmly put back in its place.
    No, Japan attacked a nation that would go on to have atomic weapons; in 1941 the US didn't have the atomic bomb. They only had a few in 1945 let alone 1941.

    (Original post by Jakko247)
    Japan was its equal? America had the atomic bomb, I wouldn't call that equal
    See above.

    (Original post by Jakko247)
    Sad truth is America had the militaristic power and resources do launch these invasions without much resistance (or atleast sustain them) whereas Japan didn't have much hope in its aims as was proved fairly quickly.
    Japan sustained a long campaign through China for longer than most of those American invasions, hell they invaded Manchura under false pretext practically setting the standards for American foreign intervention over the next half-century.
    Now please, **** off until you can come up with some actual historical fact.
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    (Original post by Laertes)
    Japan sustained a long campaign through China for longer than most of those American invasions, hell they invaded Manchura under false pretext practically setting the standards for American foreign intervention over the next half-century.
    Now please, **** off until you can come up with some actual historical fact.
    Fact remains that Japan got ownedddddddddd :yes:
    It's silly to provoke America and this situation proves it.
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    (Original post by Jakko247)
    Japan was its equal? America had the atomic bomb, I wouldn't call that equal
    Not in 1941 it didn't. At the time of Pearl Harbour, all of the allied and axis powers were racing to develop the first atomic bomb, but none of them had actually built one.
    The Japanese Imperial Navy of WWII was the most sophisticated in the world at the time, and even at the Battles of the Coral Sea and Midway, it had a slight numerical advantage as well. It was only defeated by American code breakers and poor strategy.
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    (Original post by Jakko247)
    I am just watching the film now and I can't understand why Japan did such a thing? Surely it's like an ant attacking an eagle lol. What did they hope to achieve? And how could they be so unrealisitic?
    US oil embargoes mostly, their economy was falling apart (essentially the US wanted a dependent, client-state Japan). Plus they ran rampant for the first two years of the Pacific War because of a central strategic position.

    It was always the Japanese plan to have a short, sharp war. They didn't believe that US citizens had the 'martial mentality' essentially.
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    (Original post by Liberties)
    AFAIK the idea was to intimidate the Americans into cooperating with them.

    Lots of people did oppose it, including one of the fellows who had to plan the attack. You have to understand that their political institutions couldn't have been very evolved, not subject to anywhere near the kind of criticism ours are. So naturally the policies it came out with seem silly/obviously wrong to us.
    They were highly evolved, Japan was hardly backward at the time. It was all based upon ideas of the God Emperor though.
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    Wars are gambles, even good gambles don't pay off. Pearl harbour was a good gamble, but a gamble nonetheless.

    I think you have to remember that the Americans started the war with the Japanese with an oil embargo - it was an act of war. If you view Pearl Harbour as the beginning of the conflict then yes it does appear absurd - but the conflict had already begun by then. Ignore American claims of victimisation at pearl harbour - that oil embargo threatened to wreck Japan's military in the middle of a massive war with China. If that doesn't count as war - I don't know what does. It's not just about bullets.

    A lot of people forget that the Japanese were the only non-European/European descended civilization to keep pace with the West and modernise.
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    (Original post by Jakko247)
    Made up movies? Incase you didn't know, the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanse was a historical event.
    I am not naive enough to think that it happened exactly as it was depicted in the film; but the fact remains Japan attacked a major power capable of nuclear attacks and was firmly put back in its place.


    No, I'm not actually.



    Japan was its equal? America had the atomic bomb, I wouldn't call that equal



    I was yeah! Evelyn :rolleyes:



    Sad truth is America had the militaristic power and resources do launch these invasions without much resistance (or atleast sustain them) whereas Japan didn't have much hope in its aims as was proved fairly quickly.
    The US didn't have the bomb in 1941...
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    (Original post by tehjonny)
    The US didn't have the bomb in 1941...
    Yeah thats kinda been mentioned a few times already!
    Keep up little one! :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Jakko247)
    Yeah thats kinda been mentioned a few times already!
    Keep up little one! :rolleyes:
    You were 70 years late, and you're telling me to keep up? My first laugh of the day.
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    The Japanese were never going to be strong enough to launch an assault on the US mainland as some people are saying. They were trying to destroy the naval vessels the US had at Pearl Harbour, use the war in Europe to gain control of South East Asia from the French and the British and then by the time the US had rebuild its fleet, they hoped they'd see the difficulty of displacing the Japanese from the region and simply make some kind of peace deal.
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    (Original post by tehjonny)
    You were 70 years late, and you're telling me to keep up? My first laugh of the day.
    Not really a laugh though is it, seeing as what you repeated had been said like 5 times, yet you still said it. Reading's not that hard is it really?
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    (Original post by DaneCook)
    Not really a laugh though is it, seeing as what you repeated had been said like 5 times, yet you still said it. Reading's not that hard is it really?
    That's right, start an argument on the internet. You'll feel like a big man then .

    Something particularly sad about a guy who goes around on forum's picking fights with strangers. How disempowered must you be IRL?
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    (Original post by tehjonny)
    That's right, start an argument on the internet. You'll feel like a big man then .

    Something particularly sad about a guy who goes around on forum's picking fights with strangers. How disempowered must you be IRL?
    Yes, I'm extremely disempowered IRL :rolleyes: . You think what I posted was confrontational? Wow, you must be sheltered.

    But nice one jumping to the conclusion that I'm disempowered IRL, that one really tickled me, must be fun being able to jump to such stark conclusions, no matter how far from the truth they might be.
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    (Original post by Jakko247)
    I am just watching the film now and I can't understand why Japan did such a thing? Surely it's like an ant attacking an eagle lol. What did they hope to achieve? And how could they be so unrealisitic?

    Japan was running out of oil, it thought by bombing America, it would destroy americas Navy, and give Japan around 6 months to find oil supplies with out american interference

    but America had provoked Japan by blocking oil and stuff, so what do you expect them to do ? its like gazan bombing Nuclear Power Israel

    people under extreme conditions do extreme things
 
 
 
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