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    Recent BBC documentary recreated the experiment.

    Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 1/3
    Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 2/3
    Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 3/3

    Over two thirds are known to complete the experiment and 9 out of 12 in the BBC recreation followed suit. It's kinda strange in how we sanitise the Nazi's although most of them give the same excuse that they were "following orders" whilst normal average people can similarly cause extreme pain and suffering to a complete strange solely because they were told to.
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    I think the main reason people followed those orders was because the "experimenters" would be the ones who would be taking responsibility for anything that happened. I think the results were very very specific to that one situation of people thinking they were part of an experiment. I don't think you can really use it to explain Nazis taking orders.
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    (Original post by Meus)
    Recent BBC documentary recreated the experiment.

    Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 1/3
    Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 2/3
    Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 3/3

    Over two thirds are known to complete the experiment and 9 out of 12 in the BBC recreation followed suit. It's kinda strange in how we sanitise the Nazi's although most of them give the same excuse that they were "following orders" whilst normal average people can similarly cause extreme pain and suffering to a complete strange solely because they were told to.
    The terrifying thing is we can only look on and think we could possibly react in the same way. The one thing I can describe it as is disturbing. Makes me think of the way I did whilst watching A Clockwork Orange.

    Edit: AH! Jesus... she says "he signed his form and everything" as if that makes it morally ok
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    I think the main reason people followed those orders was because the "experimenters" would be the ones who would be taking responsibility for anything that happened. I think the results were very very specific to that one situation of people thinking they were part of an experiment. I don't think you can really use it to explain Nazis taking orders.
    Known as Agentic Shift, it actually provided the basis for a lot of Nazi defences at their tribunals. Considering these are the effects with very basic and uncomplex social forces, even without conformity pressure, it makes a pretty potent demonstration.
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    Usually when this is done people go way over what can actually kill someone, if they were actually shocking someone. Its quite rare that people actually stop.

    The woman who asks he "signed his form"? Ahh well its fine then.

    Amazing...
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    I think its really cool. I've heard about it before! It is interesting how we just follow instructions. I don't think you can compare it, if you are a lay person and you are told that it is okay, you're going to trust the expert. It is all about the implications! I think its really cool
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    (Original post by rainbowbex)
    I think its really cool. I've heard about it before! It is interesting how we just follow instructions. I don't think you can compare it, if you are a lay person and you are told that it is okay, you're going to trust the expert. It is all about the implications! I think its really cool
    you think its cool you could potentially be persuaded to kill someone just because the person telling you is in a position of authority? :lolwut:
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    Ah yes - I remember studying this and watching it- the amount of people that would go the maximum 400 voltz is scary when they were told they "had to do it for the experiment to continue"
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    Known as Agentic Shift, it actually provided the basis for a lot of Nazi defences at their tribunals. Considering these are the effects with very basic and uncomplex social forces, even without conformity pressure, it makes a pretty potent demonstration.
    I still think the contexts are too different.
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    We sanitise Nazis?
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    I saw this when it was originally shown, but that doesn't make it any less frightening to see what people will do just because someone instructs them to. I'd like to think that if I'd been in the same position, I'd have been one of the minority who didn't go through to the end, but I suppose it's not possible to know how any of us would have acted now.
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    (Original post by HumanNature1992)
    Ah yes - I remember studying this and watching it- the amount of people that would go the maximum 400 voltz is scary when they were told they "had to do it for the experiment to continue"
    What is terrifying is that it shows how easily human beings are persuaded by authority or those perceived to have expert knowledge. This could apply to anything from reading the newspapers to what the government doesn't tell you to "facts" of science.
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    Also, I kind of don't think it's all that unreasonable to follow the instructions in this case. If someone doing an experiment told me "oh push that switch for my experiment please" I'd expect them to take responsibility and know what they are doing, and I'd expect them to press it themselves if I refused to. If a doctor told me to take some pills I'd also expect that he/she knows what he/she was talking about and I'd do it, so would most people. If you did an experiment on that would you say "our findings are that X% of people will take poison and kill themselves if they are told by an authority figure"? No, because it's the doctor who did it indirectly, not the patient. If the fake experiment within Milgram's experiment were real, it really would be the experimenters who administered electric shocks and not the people pressing some switches.
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    I remember watching this. I know I would definitely keep doing what someone was telling me to do - I would trust that they knew what they were doing. I don't think that means that if someone in a position of authority told me to shoot someone I would though.
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    (Original post by gingergooner)
    What is terrifying is that it shows how easily human beings are persuaded by authority or those perceived to have expert knowledge. This could apply to anything from reading the newspapers to what the government doesn't tell you to "facts" of science.
    Yeah - the whole point was to what extent is somebody influenced by authroity (so people wearing uniforms and people in high positions)
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    (Original post by HumanNature1992)
    Yeah - the whole point was to what extent is somebody influenced by authroity (so people wearing uniforms and people in high positions)
    Obviously I had considered this before, but not quite to these extremes:nope:
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    I considered your point, however disagree. That experiment was to see how much trust people put into a figure of authority, ie the scientist/doctor present. Comparing this to hitler is a little absurd to say the least, as there eas very little experimentation going on, but a whole lot more genocide.
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    (Original post by rainbowbex)
    I think its really cool. I've heard about it before! It is interesting how we just follow instructions. I don't think you can compare it, if you are a lay person and you are told that it is okay, you're going to trust the expert. It is all about the implications! I think its really cool
    I remember hearing about a case in the US. The manager of a McDonalds, held a woman against her will because they were told to by someone on the phone who said they were "police officer". In any case, the person on the phone kept telling them to do more and more stuff like stripping the woman down and worse. Then the janitor walks in, had a listen and said it was a load of crap. The woman was compensated I believe, similar cases have happened in the past. I believe but this is the one I heard about. :rolleyes:

    http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?&n...embedded#at=26

    I believe this was combination of stupidity and cruelty, rather just wiliness to obey but obviously that too.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Also, I kind of don't think it's all that unreasonable to follow the instructions in this case. If someone doing an experiment told me "oh push that switch for my experiment please" I'd expect them to take responsibility and know what they are doing, and I'd expect them to press it themselves if I refused to. If a doctor told me to take some pills I'd also expect that he/she knows what he/she was talking about and I'd do it, so would most people. If you did an experiment on that would you say "our findings are that X% of people will take poison and kill themselves if they are told by an authority figure"? No, because it's the doctor who did it indirectly, not the patient. If the fake experiment within Milgram's experiment were real, it really would be the experimenters who administered electric shocks and not the people pressing some switches.
    If you watch the original footage, the participants show massively anxious responses and proceeded with obvious doubt, dread and hesitation. The apparatus they were using was even marked with "XXX - Fatal", yet a massive proportion still proceeded despite these factors just because someone told them to.

    Is that not surprising at all? The only reason the proposal got through ethics was because the comittee believed that nobody would continue.
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    (Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
    If you watch the original footage, the participants show massively anxious responses and proceeded with obvious doubt and hesitation. The apparatus they were using was even marked with "XXX - Fatal", yet a massive proportion still proceeded despite these factors just because someone told them to.

    Is that not surprising at all? The only reason the proposal got through ethics was because the comittee believed that nobody would continue.
    I know, I'm familiar with the experiment. But I just think I'd completely expect the experimenters to take responsibility and know what they were doing. I'm just a button pusher. If a doctor told me to give a patient some pills and on the packet it said "fatal" I'd still trust their authority and assume it was an exception because they are a doctor and I know nothing about medicine.

    It was surprising to me when I first learnt about it, but I think that's because it was framed completely differently to the reality of it. I mean, I doubt if the fake experimenter had said "press the button, and by the way it'll cause the guy to die" that many people would've pressed it. Yet the way the experiment is talked about, it's framed as if that's what happened.
 
 
 
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