Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Labour anounces drive to make professions less elitist watch

    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JoshyEls)
    I didn't think you were, I was just pointing it out. The fact that many people from working class backgrounds don't see professional careers/university as possible for people like themselves needs sorting out.

    You are incredibly naive to think that people from poorer backgrounds are free to do whatever they want, whereas people from private schools need to do what their parents want them to. You sound like a guy on my course who always complains about having gone to one of the top public schools in the country, and feeling so constrained and under pressure. Everyone is subject to social pressure. Surely it is preferable to be influenced to do something that will ultimately give you a nice life, than to be under pressure to sniff glue/skive school/have a baby/leave school at 16 to help support your family.

    The people at the top of society are the ones who are most free to pursue whatever they want in life, when you are used to priviledge nothing seems unaccessible or unachievable to you. I say this as someone who went to a state school, but a really good one in a nice middle class area. I honestly think that my academic achievement is at least as much down to the school I went to and the kind of family I grew up in as it is my own natural ability.

    I understand the other pressures which may be endured by those in question, and I accept that these pressures may be less preferable than the career/success pressure from parents, but these other pressures also exist in a fee paying environment.

    So you do agree with me, that it's not the universities that need targeting, but the parents/upbringing of state school pupils and/or the state school careers office/service (If applicable)?
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Reems)
    I understand the other pressures which may be endured by those in question, and I accept that these pressures may be less preferable than the career/success pressure from parents, but these other pressures also exist in a fee paying environment.

    So you do agree with me, that it's not the universities that need targeting, but the parents/upbringing of state school pupils and/or the state school careers office/service (If applicable)?
    Schools need improving. But as long as there is inequality in education it makes sense to consider the relative difficulties people might have faced when giving out offers. It is about people from disadvantaged backgrounds who have the potential to achieve. Like they have said, university isn't being made any easier. Those people still have to do all the same modules to graduate.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Reems)
    So you do agree with me, that it's not the universities that need targeting, but the parents/upbringing of state school pupils and/or the state school careers office/service (If applicable)?
    Careers service reform is on the governments agenda, parenting was highlighted in the milburn report but I don't know if the governments figured out what to do about that yet.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JonnoE)
    Always an interesting topic this one and I think the reality of the situation is somewhere in the middle. It is certainly possible for students from "deprived" or working class backgrounds to get into Oxbridge, that is evident every year - but this is a question not about Oxbridge entry but entry to the professions. Your progression through the medical ranks does not depend on the university you go to, it is doubtful whether Oxbridge is even the best place to go for medicine but Oxbridge certainly expedites progression through the legal profession.

    I achieved AAAAAb (before A*s were brought in at A-Level) in Maths/Bio/Physics/Chem/History from studying at an FE college and from a modest background. I decided many years before that to apply for medicine and truly believe I would have made a great doctor but despite my grades and the rest of my "rounded" application, the process was like trying to walk through a brick wall. Rejected from all of the universities I applied to with no reason given. So I took up a place studying physics instead - I wasn't willing to put myself through that system again - and so come into contact with med/dent students from time to time. Indeed someone from my college (whose mother works in the NHS incidentally) is studying dentistry and he told me that there are many people there with ABB, which misses the minimum offer of AAB, who are studying dentistry. The common bond between these fortunate individuals? They have a parent or parents who are dentist(s). Now come on...surely this isn't right?

    The question of elitism is seemingly directed in the wrong area - Oxford is a great vehicle of social mobility for most subject paths but the professions are distinct. Instead of investing such time and effort in criticising Oxford, the easy entry to the professions for those with a family in that profession needs complete reform.

    So, I think it is easy to jump down the throats of so-called "class warriors", that is an easy way to ignore the fact that there are still issues involving "elitism" but they are just not in the way Labour (hideous party) are suggesting. Things aren't all great.
    Bollucks. Sounds like somebody is crying about getting rejected from Medicine. I sit here with an offer and a forthcoming interview. No rejections as of yet for A100. I study at an average state school.

    If anything, they can be a bit funny if your parents are doctors. You cannot be the judge of your own application. The fact you got four rejections means your application is not as "well rounded" as you thought.

    Your post reeks of self-pity.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Genocidal)
    Nonsense. There is nothing stopping people with less priveliged backgrounds from achieving well and getting into top universities. I find that a university lowering their grades, just because they went to public school opposed to private is pathetic and in all honesty really unfair on the people who did go to private school.

    The fact is that these professions can be described as elitist because they are difficult to make it into them. And people’s attitude will never change. In my opinion trying to reduce the elitism in them is just silly because it belittles people’s hard work to get into these jobs by making them seem less important. Yes so what if there is a lot of elitism surrounding these professions? Surely these people have worked hard enough for it.

    This leads back to the age old conflict of so called class war. Well if in an application they are going to look at things such as financial background then surely that just promotes the class war even more by this time favouring the so called working class students over the so called upper class students which in this day and age is just silly because there is nothing stopping anyone from any financial background achieving good grades and getting into a top university. And especially with things these days such as EMA so there is no excuse for lack of finance.
    this
    in its entirity.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Those ****ging of the kings access scheme for med, the people on it by the end of the course are just as good as those doing the normal course (will try and route around for the link)

    I think there is some merit in these schemes, so I think a good idea to test them and if they produce students of the same calibre at the end, great it shows that it was something other than themselves holding them back. If this doesn't show through then scrap them as either the damage is done an it is too late come uni and so need to be sorted out sooner (which incidentally I think would be a better way about going it than this by reforming education totally) or there is noting that can be sorted out.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    i prefer elitism, it may be inperfect but do you want to be paid equally as a person who has worked half as hard as you did to get where u are?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 18, 2010
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

Articles and guides:

Hands typing

Degrees without fees

Discover more about degree-level apprenticeships.

A-Z of careers Advice on choosing a careerCV writing helpCovering letter helpInterview tips

Featured recruiter profiles:

CGI logo

CGI is open for applications

"Offering a range of apprentice and sponsored degree positions."

Deutsche Bank logo

Deutsche Bank is recruiting

"Thrive in an international banking environment"

ICAEW logo

Merck

"Merck is a global leader in specialized pharma & chemicals – join us!"

Army logo

The Army is recruiting now

"With hundreds of roles available, there’s more than one way to be the best."

Bianca Miller, runner-up on The Apprentice

Handle your digital footprint

What would an employer find out about you on Google? Find out how to take control.

Quick links:

Unanswered career sector and employment threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.