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    The BBC has admitted breaching its editorial guidelines after The Mail on Sunday revealed how two leading BNP activists were allowed to make unchallenged ‘racist’ statements on a flagship news broadcast.

    A special edition of Radio 1’s Newsbeat programme introduced the two interviewees as ‘young guys who are members of the BNP’ but failed to say the pair were, in fact, key members of the far-Right party’s leadership.

    The activists – identified at the time only as Joey and Mark – went unchallenged when they claimed black England footballer Ashley Cole was not ‘ethnically British’.

    They also spoke of him ‘coming to this country’, even though Cole was born in East London.

    Now the BBC’s Editorial Complaints Unit has ruled that BBC Newsbeat was wrong not to reveal the two men’s standing in the BNP, and that their views should have faced ‘rigorous challenge’.

    The ruling on the October 2009 broadcast was published last week.

    Newsbeat was ‘reminded of the need to ensure listeners have enough information to assess the status and credentials of interviewees’.

    And programme editor Rod McKenzie was instructed to discuss with his team ‘the need for rigorous challenge within interviews of this kind’.

    The ruling added: 'The concept of British ethnicity, introduced by the interviewees in connection with the example of a black, British-born footballer, was not tested in the way its controversial character called for.’

    The complaints unit confirmed The Mail on Sunday’s disclosures that ‘at the time of the interview, one of the interviewees was the BNP’s publicity director and the other ran the record label which promotes and sells BNP CDs’.

    The Mail on Sunday established the men were Joseph Barber, also known as Joey Smith – who runs the BNP’s record label Great White Records – and Mark Collett, the party’s head of publicity.

    A BBC News spokeswoman said: ‘We note the findings.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hley-Cole.html



    I am all for free speech, but nice to see, if people have a bit of intelligence. It pisses me off that people have such views like this, it highlights ignorance. They are entitled to their views, but please have a bit of intelligence.

    What is ethically British? How do you determine someone is ethically British?

    Do you have to be Caucasian to be British?
    If that is the case, I failed. I am not Caucasian, but I am British, and proudly so.

    They can stick that where the sun don't shine.
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    This is interesting.

    IF they have an opinion (that most disagree with) they should be rigorously challenged... Okay then, anyone who thinks black people born in Britain are British should be rigorously challenged as well?

    No?

    Though I believe citizenship is not a ethnic concept, I still find the anti-BNP bias hilarious, because it is often from the people who claim to love free speech, then condemn the BNP for using their right of free speech.

    Ahh the confusion. You can have free speech if you don't say this... not very free is it?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    This is interesting.

    IF they have an opinion (that most disagree with) they should be rigorously challenged... Okay then, anyone who thinks black people born in Britain are British should be rigorously challenged as well?

    No?

    Though I believe citizenship is not a ethnic concept, I still find the anti-BNP bias hilarious, because it is often from the people who claim to love free speech, then condemn the BNP for using their right of free speech.

    Ahh the confusion. You can have free speech if you don't say this... not very free is it?
    Firstly, they do have the right to free speech, right to their views etc...they are entitled to it
    But they should also be challenged on those view. You have right to challenge and it does not matter whether your blue, Black, Red, White or Brown.
    It is sad to see that race is an issue which determines how British you are.
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    Of course a black person can't be ethnically British, for exactly the same reason that a white person can't be ethnically Aborigine. Fair enough about attacking the "he came here" quote, but criticising them for saying he's not ethnically British is completely absurd.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I still find the anti-BNP bias hilarious, because it is often from the people who claim to love free speech, then condemn the BNP for using their right of free speech.
    They are allowed freedom of speech, by token others are free to criticize their views. It is worrying when being "anti-BNP" is a slur. The BNP are hardly for freedom of speech of their opponents; whenever you try to argue with them they use ad hominem attacks against you. Most news organisations do not want to be associated with, as what most people know they are, far right national socialists.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    but criticising them for saying he's not ethnically British is completely absurd.
    They were talking about probably the least popular player in the EPL. I doubt it was used as anything less than an insult.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    Of course a black person can't be ethnically British, for exactly the same reason that a white person can't be ethnically Aborigine. Fair enough about attacking the "he came here" quote, but criticising them for saying he's not ethnically British is completely absurd.
    'Ethnically British' is a stupid term in itself, it has no meaning and had been fabricated by people with racist views.

    British is a civic identity therefore if you are a citizen of Britain you are British by default even if you weren't born in Britain.

    So yes it should be challenged.

    As for people piping up about this being against free speech, I don't think that it is they were not censored on their views but when politicians from other parties are aired on television or radio they're always given a full and accurate introduction and rigorously grilled on their views especially if they say something highly controversial.
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    Surely skin complexion doesn't play a part.

    Most 'white' people aren't (and cannot be) English.
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    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    Firstly, they do have the right to free speech, right to their views etc...they are entitled to it
    But they should also be challenged on those view. You have right to challenge and it does not matter whether your blue, Black, Red, White or Brown.
    It is sad to see that race is an issue which determines how British you are.
    My issue was with the challenging of views. It is seemed to be perfectly acceptable to challenge the views of the BNP, but unacceptable to challenge the views of liberals whether it is over immigration, or climate change.

    (Original post by vroom9)
    They are allowed freedom of speech, by token others are free to criticize their views. It is worrying when being "anti-BNP" is a slur. The BNP are hardly for freedom of speech of their opponents; whenever you try to argue with them they use ad hominem attacks against you. Most news organisations do not want to be associated with, as what most people know they are, far right national socialists.
    Who cares about the freedom of speech views of the BNP. Just because they may not believe in freedom of speech, doesn't mean we should suspend them that right.

    I would say that the BNP are more often victims of ad hominem - because the BNP said it, they are wrong - it is fairly common.

    This is something I also find interesting how can you be far right and socialist? The further right you go, the more free market they become until suddenly they become socialist? Doesn't add up.

    The BNP are not far right... there economic policies make that exceptionally clear.
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    (Original post by IceDiveFresh)
    'Ethnically British' is a stupid term in itself, it has no meaning and had been fabricated by people with racist views. British is a civic identity therefore if you are a citizen of Britain you are British by default even if you weren't born in Britain.

    So yes it should be challenged.

    As for people piping up about this being against free speech, I don't think that it is they were not censored on their views but when politicians from other parties are aired on television or radio they're always given a full and accurate introduction and rigorously grilled on their views especially if they say something highly controversial.
    You're just plain wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic..._British_Isles has a comprehensive list of the genetics of the people who have lived in Britain, and the general consensus is that on average about 80% of the DNA of the British people today is inherited from the hunter-gatherer settlers who came to Britain shortly after the last ice age 10,000 years ago. For that reason, it's perfectly acceptable to talk about "ethnically" British people, and to deny it flies in the face of all the evidence.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    You're just plain wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic..._British_Isles has a comprehensive list of the genetics of the people who have lived in Britain, and the general consensus is that on average about 80% of the DNA of the British people today is inherited from the hunter-gatherer settlers who came to Britain shortly after the last ice age 10,000 years ago. For that reason, it's perfectly acceptable to talk about "ethnically" British people, and to deny it flies in the face of all the evidence.
    By the same token I could say that you are 'just plain wrong'. Firstly Britain is a collection of countries. Each country within it has an 'ethnic' group.

    To say that he is not ethnically English, Scottish etc. as the guy above has talked about perhaps but British is a civic identity which has only existed since the formation of Great Britain. The use is still incredibly dubious anyway as the word ethnic does not mean skin colour or genetic inheritance anyway and is actually about culture.

    Anyway the main point we should be arguing is, why does it matter what somebodies ethnicity is anyway? It doesn't go hand in hand with the way in which somebody thinks that a society should be. Why not just appose multiculturalism rather than blanket appose ethnic diversity?
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    Their comments are not 'racist', they are just incorrect. You just say they are 'racist' because the two young men are from the BNP and the comments were related to the fact that the guy is black. Just because something is racial, doesn't mean it is racist. People just get offended over stuff like this, most of them being white, because they think they should be, not because it's actually offensive.
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    (Original post by IceDiveFresh)
    By the same token I could say that you are 'just plain wrong'. Firstly Britain is a collection of countries. Each country within it has an 'ethnic' group.
    You could say I am just plain wrong. However, you would not be giving any evidence at all, whereas my post was backed up by all of the genetic evidence that is currently available to us. This isn't a matter of opinion whether there are indigenous British people or not - it's scientific fact.

    To say that he is not ethnically English, Scottish etc. as the guy above has talked about perhaps but British is a civic identity which has only existed since the formation of Great Britain. The use is still incredibly dubious anyway as the word ethnic does not mean skin colour or genetic inheritance anyway and is actually about culture.
    Ethnic; Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage.

    Anyway the main point we should be arguing is, why does it matter what somebodies ethnicity is anyway? It doesn't go hand in hand with the way in which somebody thinks that a society should be. Why not just appose multiculturalism rather than blanket appose ethnic diversity?
    I never said that ethnicity "matters" in the sense that you're implying, if you look back, all I did was say that I think a black person being offending for being told that he is not ethnically British is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    The BBC has admitted breaching its editorial guidelines after The Mail on Sunday revealed how two leading BNP activists were allowed to make unchallenged ‘racist’ statements on a flagship news broadcast.

    A special edition of Radio 1’s Newsbeat programme introduced the two interviewees as ‘young guys who are members of the BNP’ but failed to say the pair were, in fact, key members of the far-Right party’s leadership.

    The activists – identified at the time only as Joey and Mark – went unchallenged when they claimed black England footballer Ashley Cole was not ‘ethnically British’.

    They also spoke of him ‘coming to this country’, even though Cole was born in East London.

    Now the BBC’s Editorial Complaints Unit has ruled that BBC Newsbeat was wrong not to reveal the two men’s standing in the BNP, and that their views should have faced ‘rigorous challenge’.

    The ruling on the October 2009 broadcast was published last week.

    Newsbeat was ‘reminded of the need to ensure listeners have enough information to assess the status and credentials of interviewees’.

    And programme editor Rod McKenzie was instructed to discuss with his team ‘the need for rigorous challenge within interviews of this kind’.

    The ruling added: 'The concept of British ethnicity, introduced by the interviewees in connection with the example of a black, British-born footballer, was not tested in the way its controversial character called for.’

    The complaints unit confirmed The Mail on Sunday’s disclosures that ‘at the time of the interview, one of the interviewees was the BNP’s publicity director and the other ran the record label which promotes and sells BNP CDs’.

    The Mail on Sunday established the men were Joseph Barber, also known as Joey Smith – who runs the BNP’s record label Great White Records – and Mark Collett, the party’s head of publicity.

    A BBC News spokeswoman said: ‘We note the findings.’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...hley-Cole.html



    I am all for free speech, but nice to see, if people have a bit of intelligence. It pisses me off that people have such views like this, it highlights ignorance. They are entitled to their views, but please have a bit of intelligence.

    What is ethically British? How do you determine someone is ethically British?

    Do you have to be Caucasian to be British?
    If that is the case, I failed. I am not Caucasian, but I am British, and proudly so.

    They can stick that where the sun don't shine.

    you can be british, it is a civic identitiy, not based on ethnicity...but english, scots or welsh you cannot be, as these are ethnic groups. simples.
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    Yet again the BNP and it's supporters bore us with their BAWWWWing and race card playing. Give it up lads. It's sunny outside. Have a picnic. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by ithink)
    you can be british, it is a civic identitiy, not based on ethnicity...but english, scots or welsh you cannot be, as these are ethnic groups. simples.
    I am British. But I am not English. Where is Preston based? I am English.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    Of course a black person can't be ethnically British, for exactly the same reason that a white person can't be ethnically Aborigine. Fair enough about attacking the "he came here" quote, but criticising them for saying he's not ethnically British is completely absurd.
    But Aborigine is basically a race and British is a nationality... So your statement lacks sense... If he were talking about a white boy of Danish decent, he probably wouldn't have said that he wasn't ethnically British!
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    (Original post by IceDiveFresh)
    'Ethnically British' is a stupid term in itself, it has no meaning and had been fabricated by people with racist views.

    British is a civic identity therefore if you are a citizen of Britain you are British by default even if you weren't born in Britain.

    So yes it should be challenged.

    As for people piping up about this being against free speech, I don't think that it is they were not censored on their views but when politicians from other parties are aired on television or radio they're always given a full and accurate introduction and rigorously grilled on their views especially if they say something highly controversial.
    THIS!!!
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    (Original post by Asha5692)
    But Aborigine is basically a race and British is a nationality... So your statement lacks sense... If he were talking about a white boy of Danish decent, he probably wouldn't have said that he wasn't ethnically British!
    If you read my other posts in this thread, you'll find the link to a wikipedia article which explains British genetic ancestry in great detail.

    Other than that, you're right - I doubt he would have called a non-white person not ethnically British. You seem to be assuming that I agree with everything these men or may not have said though. I don't. My only point is that the British can be identified as an ethnic group just as well as any indigenous population, as evidenced by much research. I'm not going to pretend to ignore science for the sake of being politically correct.
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    The people of Wales, Cornwall and Scotland are quite genetically different to the English. The English, to varying degress, are descended from Brythonic Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Jutes and Frisians and are mainly of Germanic stock. Conversely, the Welsh, Cornish and Scottish are generally of purely Celtic stock. The English are more closely related to the Dutch, Germans, and even Scandinavians, than to the Welsh and Scottish.

    This idea of a British ethnicity is entirely redundant.
 
 
 
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