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    I think you’re on shaky ground when you start to differentiate between Scotland, England and Wales on an ethnic level. There are some slight cultural differences between them but nothing major, and if you go back to different eras of our history the British Isles have been carved up in many different ways. Someone in the North of England going on about the English identity etc etc should realise that for quite a long time we were part of a Kingdom that covered from the river Humber to the Firth of Forth, there was no English identity as it were. All of this home countries nationalism is a fairly recent phenomenon; I would say the cultural differences between England and Scotland are the same as the difference between Yorkshire and Cornwall ie not that great.

    To be British can be ethnic or civic; most of New Zealand is ethnically British but not civilly.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    If you read my other posts in this thread, you'll find the link to a wikipedia article which explains British genetic ancestry in great detail.

    Other than that, you're right - I doubt he would have called a non-white person not ethnically British. You seem to be assuming that I agree with everything these men or may not have said though. I don't. My only point is that the British can be identified as an ethnic group just as well as any indigenous population, as evidenced by much research. I'm not going to pretend to ignore science for the sake of being politically correct.
    Is British still referred to as an ethnic group? I really didn't know that... Why was he even talking about Ashley Cole's race though? If somebody were to say ethnically American or ethnically Australian would they be talking about indigenous groups too? What people fail to realise is that biologically race does not exist and it's time to stop trying to segregate ourselves... Part of the reason Britain is so diverse is the fact that during the Industrial revolution, the British invited people from all over the world (Africa, Asia, the Caribbean) to come and work... Surely these groups should now be included in what is identified as British, if they too were born in Britain?
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    It all depends on how far back you look into someones family history I guess; say if both your parents were born in America or something and you were born in England... you would still be American.

    However as you go back you see that Americans are actually of European dissent once you go back a few generations... its all about where you draw the line. (you wouldn't call an American a European?)

    Of course Ashley Cole is British/English to all intents and purposes, but if you traces his ancestry back, you'd obviously find hes African etc etc. But that's irrelevant unless in a genealogical context.

    If you're going to be pedantic like the BNP are, you really have to say we are ALL African, there's where the first humans existed and spread around the world... So they definitely need to let the whole Black White thing go.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    If you read my other posts in this thread, you'll find the link to a wikipedia article which explains British genetic ancestry in great detail.

    Other than that, you're right - I doubt he would have called a non-white person not ethnically British. You seem to be assuming that I agree with everything these men or may not have said though. I don't. My only point is that the British can be identified as an ethnic group just as well as any indigenous population, as evidenced by much research. I'm not going to pretend to ignore science for the sake of being politically correct.
    Lol, the "indigenous population of England" left a long time ago, when the Romans came. Our ethnic group is entirely made up of immigrants, so why can't the most recent immigrants be assimilated into our ethnicity? Because they don't look like the rest of us, and that's all it comes down to.
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    I don't see why everyone attacks the 'ethnic British' part of everything the BNP say. It's not too difficult to recognise that obviously there are people in Britain descended from its pre-major history inhabitants. This is why French people look French, Koreans look Korean, Native Americans look Native American. There's no point being pedantic and touchy about the fact that a large part of Britain's history was without major immigration.

    The point people should pick up on is whether that does or should give ethnic British people anymore rights than other people who have been given British citizenship, or who have descended from people who immigrated here 500 years ago. It's strange that when we hear a line like, "anyone who is not ethnically British should be encouraged to go back to the country their ancestors came from 50, 100, 1000 years ago", people get into pedantics about what exact influxes there have been since the last ice age (as happened in Question Time), rather than asking why it matters.
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    I'm ethically British :fyi:
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    (Original post by Renner)
    I think you’re on shaky ground when you start to differentiate between Scotland, England and Wales on an ethnic level. There are some slight cultural differences between them but nothing major, and if you go back to different eras of our history the British Isles have been carved up in many different ways. Someone in the North of England going on about the English identity etc etc should realise that for quite a long time we were part of a Kingdom that covered from the river Humber to the Firth of Forth, there was no English identity as it were. All of this home countries nationalism is a fairly recent phenomenon; I would say the cultural differences between England and Scotland are the same as the difference between Yorkshire and Cornwall ie not that great.

    To be British can be ethnic or civic; most of New Zealand is ethnically British but not civilly.
    I was talking about genetic difference, and genetics is what the BNP bases its idea of the "British race" on. It's a flawed idea because the English are very genetically different to the Scottish and Welsh. We are Germanic, they are Celtic. We are more closely related to the Dutch and Germans than to the Scottish and Welsh.
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    (Original post by Dude Where's My Username)
    Yet again the BNP and it's supporters bore us with their BAWWWWing and race card playing. Give it up lads. It's sunny outside. Have a picnic. :rolleyes:
    Exactly. WTF. Why not just go outside and **** together? Black, white, asian - a great mount of heaving bodies all ****ing nicely and cumming together. Gays and lesbians too. WTF.
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    (Original post by Asha5692)
    Is British still referred to as an ethnic group? I really didn't know that... Why was he even talking about Ashley Cole's race though?
    I agree with you that he was stupid to be talking about Ashley Cole's race. As I've already mentioned to someone else in this thread, I didn't come here to back up everything these BNP members said, I just came to point out that a black man being offended because someone said he wasn't ethnically British is about a silly as a white person being offended by being told that they are not ethnically Aborigine.


    If somebody were to say ethnically American or ethnically Australian would they be talking about indigenous groups too?
    Yes.

    What people fail to realise is that biologically race does not exist and it's time to stop trying to segregate ourselves...
    The biology of race is a long established science which has made many discoveries - I would say that just off-handedly denying its existance like that is arrogant, if I didn't think that you're probably just accepting what people have always told you. Please, if you're genuinely interested, look into human haplogroups ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categoryuman_haplogroups ), race genetics ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics ) and lots of other resources on this subject, before you just dismiss these ideas.

    Part of the reason Britain is so diverse is the fact that during the Industrial revolution, the British invited people from all over the world (Africa, Asia, the Caribbean) to come and work... Surely these groups should now be included in what is identified as British, if they too were born in Britain?
    I'm not saying they're not British, I'm saying they're not members of the British ethnicity. There's a subtle distinction there.
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    Ethnicity and Citizenship are completely different.

    Black or Asians or whatever living in this country are NOT ethnically British, yet they may well be be a full British citizen.

    Therefore if someone says they think a Black guy is not ethnically British, they CANNOT be challenged as this is true.

    Yet if they say they think a Black guy is not a British citizen, they there is every right for someone to challenge this as it may or may not be true.

    So before you all jump on the anti-BNP bandwagon (which is just full of lulz and fail) make sure you understand things fully. Some of you are truly laughable.
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    As has been said, ethnically British doesn't exist.
    Whereas the Welsh and Scottish are generally celtic, the English if I'm not mistaken are generally Anglo-saxon, before we even begin to consider Romans... Settle and Rape. Vikings... Settle and Rape. Normans... Settle and Rape etc.

    In addition to this, even if "British Ethnicity" did exist, which it obviously doesn't, would it really be distinct from that of other Northern European/Germanic peoples. If we are to believe the out of Africa theory, Europe was largely "colonised" as it were, by two waves from the east (if I remember rightly) coming across from what is now Turkey, as such, to what extent could British ethnicity really be said to differ from "German ethnicity" or "Danish Ethnicity" given that none of the nations have had any overly extreme climatic differences.

    Race doesn't exist people, and the sooner people realise this the better. We are all a species of African Ape, it is merely that some of us left the land mass of Africa, and our skin-pigment, facial and other features changed to adapt to our environment.

    "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein.
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    (Original post by Tetrahydro)
    Lol, the "indigenous population of England" left a long time ago, when the Romans came.
    That's wrong. You've given no evidence to support yourself, even though I've given heaps and heaps in this thread to support my claims.

    Oh and if you're interested, when the Romans came, it appears they rarely interbred with the native population, and then they left after a few 100 years.

    Our ethnic group is entirely made up of immigrants, so why can't the most recent immigrants be assimilated into our ethnicity? Because they don't look like the rest of us, and that's all it comes down to.
    I never said anything in this thread about immigrants not being allowed to be assimilated into British ethnicity - I have typed this again and again, the only point I've made in this thread is that a "British ethnicity" does in fact exist, and that it's silly to be offended by someone telling you you're not a part of it. If you read my posts carefully, you'd know this.
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    I believe there is such a thing as being ethnically English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish/perhaps even Cornish, but not British.

    I agree that Ashley Cole is not ethnically British, he's British by birth and law, but not by blood.
    Similarly, if I were to move to Norway (for example) and become a Norwegian citizen and start a family, my children would be Norwegian, but ethnically English, not ethnically Norwegian.

    On a similar note. Are Boers an African ethnicity, or not? Are they even an ethnicity?
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    That's wrong. You've given no evidence to support yourself, even though I've given heaps and heaps in this thread to support my claims.

    Oh and if you're interested, when the Romans came, it appears they rarely interbred with the native population, and then they left after a few 100 years.



    I never said anything in this thread about immigrants not being allowed to be assimilated into British ethnicity - I have typed this again and again, the only point I've made in this thread is that a "British ethnicity" does in fact exist, and that it's silly to be offended by someone telling you you're not a part of it. If you read my posts carefully, you'd know this.
    I didn't say the Romans interbred. Most of the indigenous population fled to Europe when the Romans came, and that is what I was saying. Ever heard of Britanny in France?

    And yes, you did imply that Ashley Cole cannot be ethnically British.
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    (Original post by Tetrahydro)
    I didn't say the Romans interbred. Most of the indigenous population fled to Europe when the Romans came, and that is what I was saying. Ever heard of Britanny in France?
    You're so cocksure, yet you still fail to provide any evidence at all. I'm beginning to suspect a troll here.

    And yes, you did imply that Ashley Cole cannot be ethnically British.
    In that case I've misunderstood your usage of the word "assimilate". I presumed you meant interbreed. If you in fact meant "allow them to be defined as a part of our ethnicity", then yes, I don't think Ashley Cole can be assimilated into the British ethnicity, purely because he is not genetically part of the British ethnicity any more than he is genetically a native American.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    You're so cocksure, yet you still fail to provide any evidence at all. I'm beginning to suspect a troll here.



    In that case I've misunderstood your usage of the word "assimilate". I presumed you meant interbreed. If you in fact meant "allow them to be defined as a part of our ethnicity", then yes, I don't think Ashley Cole can be assimilated into the British ethnicity, purely because he is not genetically part of the British ethnicity any more than he is genetically a native American.
    Many Britons fled to Britannia in France (hence the name) and Galicia in Spain during the invasion of the Romans. This is fact. I have no time to source it now, but you can try to disprove me if you like.

    All I'm saying is the idea of a British ethnicity is basically any white person who speaks British English as a native tongue and has an Anglicised name. As such I feel it is a redundant claim to ethnicity and one that is used mainly to propagate the beliefs of right-wing nationalists.
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    (Original post by Tetrahydro)
    Many Britons fled to Britannia in France (hence the name) and Galicia in Spain during the invasion of the Romans. This is fact. I have no time to source it now, but you can try to disprove me if you like.

    All I'm saying is the idea of a British ethnicity is basically any white person who speaks British English as a native tongue and has an Anglicised name. As such I feel it is a redundant claim to ethnicity and one that is used mainly to propagate the beliefs of right-wing nationalists.
    Most 'white' (pale-skinned?) people in the world cannot possibly be English. Neither can their descendants.
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    so. he isnt ethnically british. you are only making a big deal out of it because bnp members said it. grow up.
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    (Original post by Tetrahydro)
    White by it's general definition is a light skinned caucasian. No need to be pedantic.
    Presumably most Iranians are white but most Pakistanis are not.

    I'm not a fan of delineating people by skin complexion anyway.
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    Ashley Cole has a white british mother and a black barbadan father. Surely he is as ethnically British as he is ethnically Barbadan?
 
 
 
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