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UKIP want to ban the Niqaab and Burkha:Is this an example of Islamophobia? watch

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    Hi all - an interesting opinion piece about this published in the Indie a week or so ago: Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: They are right to ban the burka, even if it is for the wrong reasons

    Its got an interesting set of comments nad arguements at the end as well. The summary of the story is thus (thus - lol): The French are baning the burka (an niquab and hijab) for right-wing xenophobic reasons (which are wrong), but the actual banning of these item of clothing frees liberate muslim women in France.

    <<edit: nughh!!! typos>>
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    At the end of the daythe niqaab gives freedom to women, liberating them from their desires and doing their duty to Almighty God, no matter how many times you quote this and reply to this, it wont change anything. End Quote

    and one more thing, nowadays you cant tell the difference between normal women and prostitutes because they dress the same,
    so who is screwed now?
    if ur directing a question/comment at me please quote me
    maybe u weren't but by reading ur post i felt for a second that you may have.
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    I don't consider this to be Islamaphobia at all. I have no real issue with any other part of 'Islamic dress' but I have a real issue with the veil (what ever name you wish to give it).

    1. Rightly or wrongly it gives me the impression that the person I'm talking to has no manners/has no desire to communicate openly with me.

    2. Especially when the person wearing the veil has a strong accent, the veil make understanding what that person is saying much more difficult.

    3. Anyone who is deaf/hearing impaired and is dependent to any degree on being able to lip read has go no chance of knowing what the person wearing the veil is saying to them - it's rude and, where the person refuses to remove the veil, discriminatory.


    In my opinion, if hoods/scarves/helmet that cover the face are not permitted in shops/banks/public buildings/restaurants etc, then the veil should not be permitted either. Equal rights under the rule of law.
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    There's nothing wrong with Islamophobia (quite a nonsensical term in its own right) anyway.
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    (Original post by Oculist)
    The same is not true for a mini-skirt. It may be a focus for enforced sexualization through peer pressure, but this was not the reason it was made.
    What makes you so sure miniskirts weren't made for this purpose? I'd personally suspect they were specifically designed to be sexually appealing for a male observer. What other reason would they be made for, when a woman could wear long skirts (as they did pre-1960) just as easily?

    (Incidentally, miniskirts used to be banned in European countries because they were an "invitation to rapists" ).


    What if, instead of discussing miniskirts, we were discussing dresses like this:
    Spoiler:
    Show


    Don't tell me they weren't specifically designed for the purposes of sexual expression!
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    (Original post by The Referee)
    I don't consider this to be Islamaphobia at all. I have no real issue with any other part of 'Islamic dress' but I have a real issue with the veil (what ever name you wish to give it).

    1. Rightly or wrongly it gives me the impression that the person I'm talking to has no manners/has no desire to communicate openly with me.

    2. Especially when the person wearing the veil has a strong accent, the veil make understanding what that person is saying much more difficult.

    3. Anyone who is deaf/hearing impaired and is dependent to any degree on being able to lip read has go no chance of knowing what the person wearing the veil is saying to them - it's rude and, where the person refuses to remove the veil, discriminatory.


    In my opinion, if hoods/scarves/helmet that cover the face are not permitted in shops/banks/public buildings/restaurants etc, then the veil should not be permitted either. Equal rights under the rule of law.
    What a lovely reason to ban the burka. All 3 of your reasons are based on communication problems. How often do you deal with someone wearing one? How often do you have to speak to them and for how long?

    What's next? Someone who can't speak English properly has no manners and has no desire desire to communicate with you and your inablity to fully understand what he/she is saying should amount to a criminal offence? Even better, why not kick all the folks who are weak in English out of the country?
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)

    (Incidentally, miniskirts used to be banned in European countries because they were an "invitation to rapists" ).

    You see Europe has been kind enough to introduce human rights for the rapists. Why should they be treated in any special way? they too have the right to want to rape! :mad:
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    You see Europe has been kind enough to introduce human rights for the rapists. Why should they be treated in any special way? they too have the right to want to rape! :mad:
    What, that literally makes no sense. Wearing a miniskirt is not affording someone the right to rape.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    What, that literally makes no sense. Wearing a miniskirt is not affording someone the right to rape.
    pay close attention, you cannot deprive them of the right to want to rape, not the right to rape.
    but to break it down to you, i was being sarcastic :p:
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    pay close attention, you cannot deprive them of the right to want to rape, not the right to rape.
    but to break it down to you, i was being sarcastic :p:
    Why are you telling me to pay close attention and then simply reiterating what I said? I did not say that anyone can be deprived of their want to do something.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    I did not say that anyone can be deprived of their want to do something.
    I didn't say that you did. Did I?
    You said "Wearing a miniskirt is not affording someone the right to rape."

    Correct? But I didn't say that it did. So i'll have to re-direct you to what I said. I am asking you to pay close attention because I quoted another member and posted (in a sarcastic manner) to indicate that the introduction of human rights in Europe also allowed rapists to feel lustful towards the women in mini-skirts, whereas their desire to rape was previously hindered by the ban on mini-skirts.

    I also don't understand why you are enjoying this by making yourself look like a complete fool, pretending that you're not being able to understand anything, even when I said I was being sarcastic.
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    I didn't say that you did. Did I?
    You said "Wearing a miniskirt is not affording someone the right to rape."

    Correct? But I didn't say that it did. So i'll have to re-direct you to what I said. I am asking you to pay close attention because I quoted another member and posted (in a sarcastic manner) to indicate that the introduction of human rights in Europe also allowed rapists to feel lustful towards the women in mini-skirts, whereas their desire to rape was previously hindered by the ban on mini-skirts.

    I also don't understand why you are enjoying this by making yourself look like a complete fool, pretending that you're not being able to understand anything, even when I said I was being sarcastic.
    You made the comment; 'pay close attention, you cannot deprive them of the right to want to rape, not the right to rape' which was highly suggestive of the fact that you believe that I did think that someone could be deprived of their want to do something. Or why else would you have made that comment? At the very least, it's akin to saying 'the sky is blue', in that it's completely unrelated to what I was talking about.

    Moreover, can you actually provide a credible link which states that mini-skirts were banned in Europe for the sole purpose of preventing female rape. I strongly doubt that you can, primary because the rise of the mini-skirt happened in the late 70s, a period of time not overly concerned with limiting the civil liberties of the world and furthermore, at that time there was no organisation with the capacity to pass such a widespread law throughout the entirety of Europe.

    In addition, I generally despise cultures which feel the need to limit the liberties of one group with the expressed intent of placating the urges of another. It is up to men not to rape women, not women to ensure that men do not rape them. Precautionary measures are fine, but not ones that ensure they become subservient to the very thing they are fighting against.

    Lastly, keep your grievances to yourself. Personal insults are unbecoming and generally a sign of foolishness.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Moreover, can you actually provide a credible link which states that mini-skirts were banned in Europe for the sole purpose of preventing female rape. I strongly doubt that you can, primary because the rise of the mini-skirt happened in the late 70s, a period of time not overly concerned with limiting the civil liberties of the world and furthermore, at that time there was no organisation with the capacity to pass such a widespread law throughout the entirety of Europe.
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...481907,00.html
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lapl...kirts-and.html (non europe)

    I don't blame them.
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    Exactly. Was there ever a widespread ban throughout the whole of Europe? No. A few nutjobs promulgating their fanaticism now and again, but otherwise not.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Exactly. Was there ever a widespread ban throughout the whole of Europe? No. A few nutjobs promulgating their fanaticism now and again, but otherwise not.
    I don't know if there was, I just gave you whatever I found in google. My point is that the principle still resonates.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I don't if there was, I just gave you whatever I found in google. My point is that the feeling still resonates.
    Well, there definitely was not. And the feeling hardly resonates, it's akin to taking the opinion of 0.1% the population as the commonly-held view. I do not place much stock in fanaticism, in fact I place none at all.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Well, there definitely was not. And the feeling hardly resonates, it's akin to taking the opinion of 0.1% the population as the commonly-held view. I do not place much stock in fanaticism, in fact I place none at all.
    Not really, if you look at it from a global perspective, every continent is seeking to ban it (apart from North America). It's not really fanaticism either, most of these states are secularized.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Not really, if you look at it from a global perspective, every continent is seeking to ban it (apart from North America). It's not really fanaticism either, most of these states are secularized.
    What?!

    Every continent, jeez you crack me up. If you seriously think that Europe are trying to ban the mini-skirt, well then, you're fairly deluded. There may well be a few rogue nutjobs who are clamouring for a return to the conservative ways of old, but they represent an absolutely minuscule part of society. The same stands for Australia, South America, Antarctica (of course) and significant parts of Asia and Africa.

    Oh, and fanaticism does not solely apply to religious convictions.
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    Good.
    The sooner Muslim women arn't made to wear those slave sheets the better.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    What?!

    Every continent, jeez you crack me up. If you seriously think that Europe are trying to ban the mini-skirt, well then, you're fairly deluded. There may well be a few rogue nutjobs who are clamouring for a return to the conservative ways of old, but they represent an absolutely minuscule part of society. The same stands for Australia, South America, Antarctica and significant parts of Asia and Africa.
    No of course not Europe, Western Europe at least is a lost cause.I should've been more clear, politicians within those countries are seeking to ban it not holistic government.
 
 
 
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