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    **** them.
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    wow, shocking how racist people can get defending their own country.

    even more interesting that the chiune sugihara comment was completely overlooked - i shamefully admit, i personally hadn't heard of that guy before, but he's a regular Schindler who hasn't had the same legacy that Schindler has perhaps because of the west's ignorance towards Asia and anywhere outside europe and north america

    i really don't think there's any point branding a certain race as disgusting, evil, brutal, etc. the point is every race has committed horrific crimes and it's hurtful to brand people who are so totally against that sort of thing due to their race.

    stop saying stuff like 'look here at what the japanese did', 'dead Jap' these are offensive terms and serve to alienate modern japanese people who don't at all agree with the crimes of their ancestors.

    i admit ishii shiro's argument isnt that compelling but in the end he's just sticking up for his race in the same way that people are trying to defend colonialism here.

    just stop the labelling and pointing fingers, it's disgusting to read
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    same **** is most likely going on and being committed by the US and UK in Afghanistan right now. There's plenty of video footage to suggest this.
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    Most slaves we had bought from African tribes who had enslaved their enemies. They would have been slaves even if we had never been there.
    You're justifying it like a kid. Just because someone else does it/has done it doesn't then make slavery any less of a crime against humanity when you do it.

    Though this thread is more about the Axis Powers so I'll revert to that. During the Nanking massacre, the most inhumane stories that I've read of are how pregnant women were bayoneted in the stomach and the foetus ripped out. Also there are reports of how fathers were forced to rape daughters, brothers their sisters and sons their mothers. The appalling nature of the murders are what makes it all the more disgusting.

    The psychological mindset of the Japanese must be taken into account. This is in no way a justification but more of an indicator of how such atrocities could occur. The Japanese military were brutal in their training, the strict hierarchy meant you would be washing your senior's underwear and beatings would be usual. This type of training is almost comparable to stockholm syndrome despite the differing level of abuse of course. They would be led to believe that the Chinese were worse than dogs, that the Chinese were not human and this is imprinted in their minds for years and years under the hard toil of their superiors. They lacked the will or imagination to escape, the culture of the Japanese, way back from the samurai meant that they were dedicated to Japan unconditionally. When the Japanese sieged the city, the lack of resistance put up by the Chinese and their willingness to accept defeat denigrated them in the eyes of the Japanese. The Japanese culture of not giving up and suicide rather than capture meant that they were shocked at how so many Chinese could just give up and surrender and thus lessened them further in the eyes of the Japanese.

    This is not to say that all Japanese soldiers just assumed their role and killed mercilessly, there are transcripts of diaries where soldiers speak of when the officer in charge were teaching them to bayonet live standing prisoners. The officer would scream out who would be the first to step up and when no one willingly stepped up, soldiers were picked and threatened with death, in that situation its kill or be killed.
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    The Axis were an evil bunch but the Allies (Russia) also commited terrible war crimes.

    The Red Army invaded Germany and raped over 100,000 German women and children..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_du...ation_of_Japan
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    **** them.

    Stalin said that to his own people aswell.
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    All countries experiment on either their own(North Korea) or another countries people(Japanese). There is no worse country. It's all insane. >___<
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    (Original post by romulus22)
    wow, shocking how racist people can get defending their own country.

    even more interesting that the chiune sugihara comment was completely overlooked - i shamefully admit, i personally hadn't heard of that guy before, but he's a regular Schindler who hasn't had the same legacy that Schindler has perhaps because of the west's ignorance towards Asia and anywhere outside europe and north america

    i really don't think there's any point branding a certain race as disgusting, evil, brutal, etc. the point is every race has committed horrific crimes and it's hurtful to brand people who are so totally against that sort of thing due to their race.

    stop saying stuff like 'look here at what the japanese did', 'dead Jap' these are offensive terms and serve to alienate modern japanese people who don't at all agree with the crimes of their ancestors.

    i admit ishii shiro's argument isnt that compelling but in the end he's just sticking up for his race in the same way that people are trying to defend colonialism here.

    just stop the labelling and pointing fingers, it's disgusting to read
    I think that perhaps it is the fact that Japan is overlooked when it comes to atrocities and especially in the West, portrayed a lot as victims, which they were at the hands of the atomic bombs but that doesn't absolve them from their role in the massacre in 1937 and their role in WW2. It's more that people are becoming enlightened to what the Japanese did do and it is disgusting. If you start to censor it then it is as good as ignoring it and pretending like a Japanese authority did not too long ago, in the early noughties, who chose to defend the military and not apologise for the massacre. To this day, the Japanese have neither paid the extent of war reparations that the Germans were forced to nor publicly apologised for the Nanking massacre, many even deny its actuality and it is not well known in the West due to the role Japan played post-WW2 in allowing America to establish a foothold in that region of the world against Communism.
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    (Original post by Hadouken)
    Stalin said that to his own people aswell.
    I'm sorry but without Stalin, you'd most definitely be speaking German and probably being feasted upon by the the Japanese scum, contemplating on how they should eat you.
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    I'm sorry but without Stalin, you'd most definitely be speaking German and probably being feasted upon by the the Japanese scum, contemplating on how they should eat you.
    That's a slight outlandish statement. The fact of the matter is without Stalin there would of been another leader (Leon Trotsky, Bukharin?) and they might have also helped the allies without slaughtering millions upon millions of people in the process.
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    (Original post by Clarity Incognito)
    I think that perhaps it is the fact that Japan is overlooked when it comes to atrocities and especially in the West, portrayed a lot as victims, which they were at the hands of the atomic bombs but that doesn't absolve them from their role in the massacre in 1937 and their role in WW2. It's more that people are becoming enlightened to what the Japanese did do and it is disgusting. If you start to censor it then it is as good as ignoring it and pretending like a Japanese authority did not too long ago, in the early noughties, who chose to defend the military and not apologise for the massacre. To this day, the Japanese have neither paid the extent of war reparations that the Germans were forced to nor publicly apologised for the Nanking massacre, many even deny its actuality and it is not well known in the West due to the role Japan played post-WW2 in allowing America to establish a foothold in that region of the world against Communism.
    that was very well put and I agree, but it's not the fault of the Japanese that they are portrayed as victims, they had two atom bombs dropped on them which sort of by default makes them objects of pity, but certainly that doesnt mean they should be absolved of their horrific war crimes

    i dont really know all that much about the details so i dont want to make any big points here, but all i was saying was that when you interchange your own race with the word japanese in this thread, it makes you feel quite uncomfortable, and the manner in which people were propounding their points was .. indelicate
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    (Original post by Ishii Shiro)
    There is a big lie about Nanking - it was the other way around, there was nasty riot against innocent Japanese civilians and many were raped by Chinese - the army had to step in to stop the rioters. It is western conspiracy.
    I really don't know where you get your facts from but seriously read some books on the matter. Even logically, the Nanking Massacre occurred on the Chinese mainland. There weren't any particularly large gatherings of Japanese civilians compared with Chinese civilians. The Japanese military were given laissez-faire by Asaka in the days after the siege of Nanking as a reward for their swift victory, it was common warfare that the army would be allowed to ravage a community/village that it conquered in China to satisfy the Japanese soldiers who had fought in very dire conditions. The problem with Nanking was that control was lost and rather than a few days, it went on for weeks.
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    I'm sorry but without Stalin, you'd most definitely be speaking German and probably being feasted upon by the the Japanese scum, contemplating on how they should eat you.
    I see you haven't taken much from my lengthy treatise on Stalin's terrible role in the unofficial famine of 32-2 and his terrible decisions on agriculture in the private message. You seem to continue to advocate Stalin and attribute the winning of the war solely in his hands. You speak of fascist german scum in your message and Japanese scum on here yet you still don't have a grasp on the politics which Stalin stood for. I assume you haven't replied to the message because you are unable to build and justify a suitable argument for Stalin. If you can, I anticipate with baited breath.
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    (Original post by romulus22)
    that was very well put and I agree, but it's not the fault of the Japanese that they are portrayed as victims, they had two atom bombs dropped on them which sort of by default makes them objects of pity, but certainly that doesnt mean they should be absolved of their horrific war crimes

    i dont really know all that much about the details so i dont want to make any big points here, but all i was saying was that when you interchange your own race with the word japanese in this thread, it makes you feel quite uncomfortable, and the manner in which people were propounding their points was .. indelicate
    I completely concur with all you've said in this post and I have even proposed the same sort of conclusion in a previous post on this thread. They most definitely shouldn't be absolved of their horrific war crimes which is why this thread has been created, to testify against the Japanese atrocities. (Perhaps also in comparison to the Nazis)

    The thing which makes the atrocities more prominent are their proximity in time to us, it has been less than a century since these types of things were happening. It is a very sensitive subject and your idea of empathy is resounds rather clearly in discussions like these but one should be made to feel uncomfortable. If I were Japanese, I would feel ashamed of the massacre and I would feel uncomfortable about it. The thing where the line should be drawn is when people continue to put the Japanese people now in one sweeping statement because of the massacre such as 'the japanese people are evil because of what they did in 1937,' which is clearly not true.
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    (Original post by Clarity Incognito)
    You're justifying it like a kid. Just because someone else does it/has done it doesn't then make slavery any less of a crime against humanity when you do it.
    Where exactly did I try to justify slavery? I think it was a morally abhorrent thing to do. I just find it annoying when people always seem to blame the UK for it, yes we traded in slaves but the notion that all Africans were victims and all Briton’s were the evil perpetrators is just nonsense.
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    the notion that all Africans were victims and all Briton’s were the evil perpetrators is just nonsense.
    I don't think most people have this notion. People are just pointing out the significant role that Britain had to play in slavery. On the other hand, those people that may have this notion, would it not be a better exercise of your time to ignore their frivolous comments like the rest of us. It is quite obvious when someone is completely unsubstantiated and if anyone were to say the statement outlined above thinking it was an indubitable truth then surely it just says more about that person's capacities.
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    Well more people died because of the Japanese but there wasn't as much proactive deliberat killing in the same way a lot was just horrendous POW camps etc.
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    (Original post by Clarity Incognito)
    I see you haven't taken much from my lengthy treatise on Stalin's terrible role in the unofficial famine of 32-2 and his terrible decisions on agriculture in the private message. You seem to continue to advocate Stalin and attribute the winning of the war solely in his hands. You speak of fascist german scum in your message and Japanese scum on here yet you still don't have a grasp on the politics which Stalin stood for. I assume you haven't replied to the message because you are unable to build and justify a suitable argument for Stalin. If you can, I anticipate with baited breath.
    I didn't reply because I couldn't be arsed reading 500,000 odd words.

    Had Stalin not industrialised the Soviet Union at least 90% of the population would have been exterminated, in order to control such large a country. I'll concede that a lot of people did die under Stalin's regime, however hundreds of millions more would have died had his policies not sacrificed human life. Without Stalin, the allies would not have won World War II. I think we all have a lot to be thankful for don't you?
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    I didn't reply because I couldn't be arsed reading 500,000 odd words.

    Had Stalin not industrialised the Soviet Union at least 90% of the population would have been exterminated, in order to control such large a country. I'll concede that a lot of people did die under Stalin's regime, however hundreds of millions more would have died had his policies not sacrificed human life. Without Stalin, the allies would not have won World War II. I think we all have a lot to be thankful for don't you?
    That is slightly more than an over-exaggeration... if I were to write a 500,000 word treatise on a subject, I would make sure that my audience were not as narrow-minded as you are.

    The statements I have placed in bold are unsubstantiated, what do you base this on?? You're speculating. As well as this, do you think that Britain or America, let alone, the rest of the world have accepted Nazi rule. Their forces would have been stretched over an increasingly large area if they had taken control of Russia and its colonies and there is no way that they would be able to maintain it if they were attacked on all fronts. The only point which you keep reiterating is that Stalin's amazing because USSR won the war and because he was at their head, he is to take full credit. There are many reasons why the USSR won the war as I have previously gone into and Stalin was not the sole perpetrator. Don't bother replying if you have no further points of value to advocate your blind support of a terrible dictator.
 
 
 
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