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    (Original post by paperclip)
    Why do you find the Abrahamic religions disgusting?
    Should we ban everything someone might be offended by? o.O
    If you have read any of the Bible or the Qur'an, you will know exactly why any moral, democratic westerner would be extremely upset and disgusted by the ideals of these religions.

    Secondly, no we shouldn't ban something on the basis of whether or not it is offensive, but on the basis of whether or not the ideas and notions behind it are dangerous to society, or erect unnecessary barriers to societal progress. Religion does just this, as does Nazism.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    That's nice. So now you're on record as a freedom hater
    Freedom, as I said in a different thread earlier today, is not something that should be available to all groups and individuals in a society.

    In fact, a society relies upon the fact that certain groups and individuals do not have freedom. This is why we have prisons, for example. Because society would simply not function as well and as peacefully as it does if we never removed freedom from dangerous individuals or groups.

    I love freedom when it is given to and exercised by people who use it to better themselves and better society. When somebody uses their freedom to do anything destructive to society, then they should be stripped of that particular freedom. But you're quite right to call me a freedom hater when we speak in the context of people being free to be destructive to society.

    Islam is just one example of an idea that is shared among many groups and individuals that is dangerous and destructive to society, and which erects barriers to moral, technological, intellectual and scientific progress. Therefore, the freedom to exercise it should be taken from those who wish to.

    I put it to you that you are the freedom hater, not I. For you are the one who is quite happy to let a group of deranged individuals dismantle the freedoms we enjoy in our relatively civil society in the name of a religion which is based on extremely questionable premises.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Anti-burkha rhetoric is just plain old racism under a new guise.
    Muslims are a race now :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by KayK)
    Thats a pretty prejudice veiw you got there, this is regarding ALOT of women and you don't know the reason why. Every single person has there own reasoning and their own logic [i'd say] behind their choice.

    "it is illegal from the Sharia Law being enforced instead of British Law"

    The European human rights convention gives the right to practise religion.
    And it might be iffy and a little annoying at times seeing someone totally convered up, but personally the only time i find it ok for the face to be exposed is in places like banks.
    sorry i like to know who i'm talking to and to me that means facial recognition.
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    (Original post by Libtolu)
    Muslims are a race now :rolleyes:
    Even if its not strictly racism, it still is a form of discrimination. Perhaps the right word is Islamophobia
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    No, nor would I ban dragism or shagism. :rolleyes:

    It was a satirical political stunt, not a way of life.

    Just as communism has been said to make everyone poor for the sake of equality (though I'm a socialist myself), "bagism" could be said to make everyone ugly for the sake of equality (and, Lord knows, I'm ugly myself :p:).
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    (Original post by Libtolu)
    sorry i like to know who i'm talking to and to me that means facial recognition.
    Lol..Okay, if that was the case you could have said that rather than just judging ALOT of people before hand, not only that, but judging WHY they do things.
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    All religious attire should be taken at face value.. As a funny costume. If funny costumes are not appropriate: i.e. in an airport. Then they should not be permitted.
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    (Original post by Libtolu)
    Muslims are a race now :rolleyes:
    The fact that you ignore all the arguments and go straight to being stupidly pedantic speaks volumes of your opinion.
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    good for nothin' hippies
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    (Original post by Libtolu)
    Muslims are a race now :rolleyes:
    You're an idiot.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Anti-burkha rhetoric is just plain old racism under a new guise.
    Indeed. :top2:

    (Original post by terpineol)
    I wouldn't ban it, but I don't have an issue with the burkha either.
    ^ My view too. Wow, I actually agree with the first two posters on a TSR thread for once! :p:

    (Original post by Phugoid)
    For me, the symbols of Islam (and indeed, any of the Abrahamic religions), offends me and engulfs me in the same feeling of absolute disgust that the Nazi symbology creates for a moral German, or indeed, a Jew.
    I seriously don't get what you're massive problem is.

    How can you justify feeling offended and engulfed in such a strong feeling of absolute disgust (comparing it to what a Jew must feel at seeing a Nazi symbol) when you see something like a Church, Synagogue or Mosque?

    If you ever went into one of these buildings, (extremist exceptions aside) you'd meet modern, normal people who live in today's Britain like you and I but believe in their respective faiths as a part of their personal identity and psyche. I've been in plenty of Churches (across the full spectrum of denominations) in several countries and many Masajid (Mosques) too and I know a lot of these places inside out.

    I understand the position of an atheist / antitheist who wants to sever State ties with the Church etc. but I think your incredibly strong disgust at a religious symbol is straying into the realms of obsessional and abnormal behaviour, for which you should probably seek help. :indiff:
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    I love freedom when it is given to and exercised by people who use it to better themselves and better society. When somebody uses their freedom to do anything destructive to society, then they should be stripped of that particular freedom. But you're quite right to call me a freedom hater when we speak in the context of people being free to be destructive to society.
    Funny how Judeo-Christian beliefs (Yes - religious ones *gasp*) formed the society which you cherish so much. :rolleyes:

    Islam is just one example of an idea that is shared among many groups and individuals that is dangerous and destructive to society, and which erects barriers to moral, technological, intellectual and scientific progress. Therefore, the freedom to exercise it should be taken from those who wish to.
    It is also funny how much Islamic societies contributed to the world in the way of "moral, technological, intellectual and scientific progress" and in so many other ways during the Islamic Golden Age. Islam was heavily ingrained in these societies and yet the people were not "satisfied with the impoverished world-view they had" which you would presume they would be.
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    If you have read any of the Bible or the Qur'an, you will know exactly why any moral, democratic westerner would be extremely upset and disgusted by the ideals of these religions.

    Secondly, no we shouldn't ban something on the basis of whether or not it is offensive, but on the basis of whether or not the ideas and notions behind it are dangerous to society, or erect unnecessary barriers to societal progress. Religion does just this, as does Nazism.
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    Funny how Judeo-Christian beliefs (Yes - religious ones *gasp*) formed the society which you cherish so much. :rolleyes:
    Isn't that a bit stupid? Most of those beliefs are outdated now, and that's reflected in the law changes etc. in this society.
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    (Original post by paperclip)
    In ideology, i'd love to be a communist but being pragmatic, i'm a democratic socialist. On real policies, i'd probably come up anything between -5 to -8 i reckon.
    Democratic Socialism? But that's the worst form of Politics!

    Come join us in the Social Democratic camp. We have candy.

    On topic, no. I wouldn't ban Bagism or Burkhas.
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    (Original post by near_comatose)
    Isn't that a bit stupid? Most of those beliefs are outdated now, and that's reflected in the law changes etc. in this society.
    No, it's not at all stupid. :confused:

    You think most beliefs from Judeo-Christian culture, ie. prohibitions on murder, theft, rights to own land and property, encouragement of reciprocally and mutually benevolent actions in the law etc. etc. are outdated in today's society? :rolleyes:

    You obviously grasp the concept of "most" wrong... what you'll gladly accept, you refuse or ignore its source.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    You're an idiot.
    Yes because i'm the one labelling islam as a race.:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    Funny how Judeo-Christian beliefs (Yes - religious ones *gasp*) formed the society which you cherish so much. :rolleyes:
    Judeo-Christian beliefs took society only so far. But had it not been for secularisation and science, we would be a long, long way from where we are now. In general, the parts of western society which I cherish most were born when society began to break away from religion into skeptical, scientific and philosophical enlightenment.

    It is also funny how much Islamic societies contributed to the world in the way of "moral, technological, intellectual and scientific progress" and in so many other ways during the Islamic Golden Age. Islam was heavily ingrained in these societies and yet the people were not "satisfied with the impoverished world-view they had" which you would presume they would be.
    I agree, the Islamic world used to appreciate the scientific method. I don't know exactly what has happened since then, but it generally seems that a society's scientific prowess is inversely proportional to its religiosity. That is, during the Islamic Golden Age, the great minds would treat their work independently of the Qur'an... except that they might perhaps attribute their findings to God. Today, however, the minds of Islam attempt to justify their findings within the context of the Qur'an, even when it clearly does not fit.

    You might do well to note that the reason Islam had its golden age was because the rest of the intellectual world was plunged into the dark ages by, yes, you guessed it, religion.

    Had religion never been around:

    1) The scientific, philosophical and moral work of the Greeks would have continued for centuries longer than it did, and the western world as a whole would be much further along than it is now.

    2) The Islamic world's work would also have been unbounded by religious context, and would also have flourished much more greatly than it did during that relatively short period of time.
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    Would I ban it?

    No.
    A member of UKIP was on tv this morning basically saying how it is a symbol of oppression from Devout Muslim Countries.

    Well this isn't one of these countries, I would hazard a guess at saying the majority of Muslim women in this country wear one by choice rather than being forced.

    Such a bill is nonsense and would just widen the gap between Western and Islamic cultures.

    And we really don't need that.
 
 
 
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