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    (Original post by EM(Lin))
    Not necessarily for a top 20 university, where they have to reject many top-quality applicants. If the OP really does manage to write an incredible personal statement they may squeeze out a more deserving candidate.
    They don't reject many top quality applicants lol - if you can't get into a top 20 university you're not quality, tbh a top quality applicant is an Oxford probable, not someone who scrapes into Bath.

    What's deserving - university isn't like a big playpark for people to selfishly indulge in a bit of education and self experimentation on the taxpayer - which is how you seem to see it anyway (well the first part tbh, not the self experimentation).
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    (Original post by paella)
    That's why I don't like academia, there's not the same sort of competition, or powerplay, or clear set goal. If I got a 1st in Mathematics from Cambridge - I haven't beaten anyone. If I solve some mathematic formula, well there's another one just around the corner. I could write literature forever and never hit a bestseller. The lawyer I was talking to bought himself a mansion with a ballroom and a massive swimming pool with the bonus he got. That's competing for something. That's winning.


    Sad to say, there's truth in what he says. It will be a great day when humankind surpasses our sordid Darwinism/capitalism.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    And they will squeeze less out of the ones who don't strive for a 2.1.
    Possibly. But in the case of universities which don't interview they could equally be chosen over someone whose personal statement wasn't quite as good. That's just the way it is, nothing any of us can do about it.
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    OK can everyone please just answer the question? Why is everyone giving their opinion on the OP on what they should do with THEIR personal life. Just answer the goddamn Question being asked rather than going on a tangent about what they should do with THEIR lives. To the OP- if you have the grades and everything I've heard medicine is quite soft on the content but a lot to remember. If you want a really easy way..... then possibly History- got quite a lot of content from what I've heard but nothing too serious and very valuable (As with any degree from the top 20.)
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    (Original post by paella)
    They don't reject many top quality applicants lol - if you can't get into a top 20 university you're not quality, tbh a top quality applicant is an Oxford probable, not someone who scrapes into Bath.

    What's deserving - university isn't like a big playpark for people to selfishly indulge in a bit of education and self experimentation on the taxpayer - which is how you seem to see it anyway (well the first part tbh, not the self experimentation).
    Are you on the same planet as me?! When I went for my Oxford interviews there were no applicants for my course who were noticeably weaker than the rest. They were all "top quality," any of them could probably have done well, yet the majority of them won't have got in due to the number of places on offer.

    And yes, I do see university as primarily academic (shock horror!). That's sort of the point, particularly at a top 20 university. There's nothing wrong with the taxpayer contributing to education (we'll all be taxpayers ourselves in a few years anyway). Drinking and partying WITHOUT any work is a different matter.
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    (Original post by EM(Lin))
    Are you on the same planet as me?! When I went for my Oxford interviews there were no applicants for my course who were noticeably weaker than the rest. They were all "top quality," any of them could probably have done well, yet the majority of them won't have got in due to the number of places on offer.

    And yes, I do see university as primarily academic (shock horror!). That's sort of the point, particularly at a top 20 university. There's nothing wrong with the taxpayer contributing to education (we'll all be taxpayers ourselves in a few years anyway). Drinking and partying WITHOUT any work is a different matter.
    Only to your unexperienced eye, not the Oxford interviewers
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    (Original post by Ham22)
    i don't have a problem with the OPs attitude/reason for wanting a degree. 'as a means to an end' is as good a reason as 'interest in the subject'. what's the issue? he's not hurting anyone, he's aiming for a 2.1 and he plans to pay it back. why is that so offensive?
    We're probably all overreacting somewhat. But when you've worked really hard to get into your university of choice the idea of someone who doesn't even particularly want to study just waltzing in is pretty aggravating.

    Personally, I dislike the OP's attitude- only wanting to put in the bare minimum of effort and expecting to walk away into a decent job. I know it's perfectly possible and a lot of people probably have the same attitude, but it really bugs me :mad:
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    Whats this nonsense about deserving? The people who get into university should be the best students not the people who 'wants it most,' and he'll be contributing just like anyone eles would after his degree so I don't see why the tax-payer should complain...
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    (Original post by EM(Lin))
    We're probably all overreacting somewhat. But when you've worked really hard to get into your university of choice the idea of someone who doesn't even particularly want to study just waltzing in is pretty aggravating.

    Personally, I dislike the OP's attitude- only wanting to put in the bare minimum of effort and expecting to walk away into a decent job. I know it's perfectly possible and a lot of people probably have the same attitude, but it really bugs me
    To a brilliant person it's probably pretty aggravating that a mediocre person can study hard and just 'have a passion' and on paper seem to be equally clever.
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    (Original post by paella)
    Only to your unexperienced eye, not the Oxford interviewers
    To my inexperienced eye, it seems that Oxford interviewers would see right through you. What I meant was that everyone was passionate about the subject (I know you don't think that's important, but still), everyone had done a hell of a lot of reading above and beyond the curiculum, and pretty much everyone could engage in discussion on the subject on roughly the same level. Admittedly those were just the people who'd already been narrowed down by pre-interview selection, but the point still stands that most of them won't have got in. Of course, the interviewers will have had higher standards and more experience than me, and I'm not saying everyone shuld have got in- places are very limited. But you'd have to be an idiot to say that any one of them wasn't a "top quality" applicant.
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    (Original post by paella)
    To a brilliant person it's probably pretty aggravating that a mediocre person can study hard and just 'have a passion' and on paper seem to be equally clever.
    A brilliant person, and the most deserving person, will most likely be prepared to put in the work in their subject, albeit at a higher level than the mediocre candidate.

    And I never suggested that places should go to the people who "want it most," I think they should go to equally "brilliant" candidates who want it more, if that's the only way of differentiating.
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    Wow, this topic makes my degree feel so insignificant.
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    (Original post by CassCassCassie)
    Honestly, if you don't have a drive to study a subject I doubt anything is going to be "easy".

    Personally I don't see the point of incurring a debt of £20,000 or so if you're not motivated to study a subject. Do you know how tough it is to get a job even with a 2:1 from a top twenty uni? Even Oxbridge grads sometimes have to spend a few years hunting for employment.

    Not to mention how difficult it is to get into a top twenty uni in the first place, even if you are genuinely passionate about the subject.

    Sorry if I sound bitter. I've wanted to study Classics for ages, and have to face the very real possibility that I will be rejected from my top two choices regardless of the fact that I've worked my arse off to get the required grades etc. So the idea of someone walking into a top twenty uni with no real drive to study a subject kind of annoys me. It's more anger with the state of the world, and the notion that everyone "must" have degrees to be of value. But arrrrgh.
    I agree! I get annoyed when I see people who by their own admission 'aren't bothered about Cambridge/Oxford/Durham etc.' but they get places. It makes me think that these people are selfish and not worth the places.
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    I can't believe people are overreacting like this.Though it's not exactly ethical, and it would be ideal to actually be passionate about what you're about to study at university, the op's attitude is common with many people. Some of them are not even fairly smart, but do get out of university with a degree, work their way up into a company and boss other other people around.

    Don't tell me all those who study Marketing or Management, Media Studies or Social Studies are pursuing a lifelong dream. And if you are at least mediocre academically, society does expect you to attend higher education, so it's understandable that if your family went thourgh it, all your friends go to university, you'll want to go too.

    That is why I tend to look down on Humanities and other easy subjects, but I'm not being unreasonable.I know people who are doing or planning to do exactly like the op, and some of them are pretty clever and fun to be around.I just find it hard to believe that those degrees carry any weight in the real world or that most students have much beside a vague interest in such degrees, compared to uni life, broadly speaking. Anyway, not everyone can decide what they'd like to do and what they are best at doing at this age. Personally, I'm planning to do a "serious" degree, and I've proved I am passionate about the subject, but I too have been through a phase where I'd lost all motivation and didn't feel very "academical".
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    (Original post by CassCassCassie)
    To be honest, I'm not convinced that they tell the truth when they say that.
    I had a friend that "would turn Cambridge down for Durham anyway, because Durham's where I really want to go..." and then changed her tune once she got in to Cambridge.

    Urgh.

    Basically, I'm a slimy green pool of jealousy.

    Ahhh well I knew someone who got a place at Cambridge then went to Durham anyway. Which is fair enough, but I think it's a little unfair to the people who she beat to that place. Oh well.
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    (Original post by Runincircles)
    I can't believe people are overreacting like this.Though it's not exactly ethical, and it would be ideal to actually be passionate about what you're about to study at university, the op's attitude is common with many people. Some of them are not even fairly smart, but do get out of university with a degree, work their way up into a company and boss other other people around.

    Don't tell me all those who study Marketing or Management, Media Studies or Social Studies are pursuing a lifelong dream. And if you are at least mediocre academically, society does expect you to attend higher education, so it's understandable that if your family went thourgh it, all your friends go to university, you'll want to go too.

    That is why I tend to look down on Humanities and other easy subjects, but I'm not being unreasonable.I know people who are doing or planning to do exactly like the op, and some of them are pretty clever and fun to be around.I just find it hard to believe that those degrees carry any weight in the real world or that most students have much beside a vague interest in such degrees, compared to uni life, broadly speaking. Anyway, not everyone can decide what they'd like to do and what they are best at doing at this age. Personally, I'm planning to do a "serious" degree, and I've proved I am passionate about the subject, but I too have been through a phase where I'd lost all motivation and didn't feel very "academical".
    I think many of us are feeling the stress of the whole UCAS thing and the OP's sort of attitude is particularly irritating right now :p: What you say is true, but it's such a shame it's so commonplace

    Out of interest, what subject are you applying for?
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    (Original post by EM(Lin))
    I think many of us are feeling the stress of the whole UCAS thing and the OP's sort of attitude is particularly irritating right now :p: What you say is true, but it's such a shame it's so commonplace

    Out of interest, what subject are you applying for?
    I know, I know.I've been more radical about this in the past actually but I toned down.
    This time next year, I might be proud to be either a Mathematics and Computer Science or a Medical Physics student.
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    (Original post by Runincircles)
    I know, I know.I've been more radical about this in the past actually but I toned down.
    This time next year, I might be proud to be either a Mathematics and Computer Science or a Medical Physics student.
    Nice- I wish I was good enough to do Maths at university at university level. I'm doing it at A Level, but I'm just not talented enough to do a degree in it.:rolleyes: Ah well, I'm in love with Latin and Greek anyway- not so great for immediately applicable "skills," but bonus marks for geekiness and potential for eccentricity hehe :p: Good luck for next year- long may your attitude to scholarship continue!
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    (Original post by Becky21)
    I think it was a joke
    Yep, but this being the internet the OP may have taken it seriously. Unlikely, but 97.9% of studies conducted at Oxbridge University have shown that 89.4% of people are 99% stupid.
 
 
 
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