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ITN#5 -;Prayer no aid to heart patients I find offensive
I found this thread rather offensive considering my youngest brother is disabled and has major heart problems as well as other things I felt it was not right for this person to look into problems on a article then post it on a public forum when others who know/have relatives/or have this problem I found this thread even though it had a sticky unfair :vmad:
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hulachick15
I found this thread rather offensive considering my youngest brother is disabled and has major heart problems as well as other things I felt it was not right for this person to look into problems on a article then post it on a public forum when others who know/have relatives/or have this problem I found this thread even though it had a sticky unfair :vmad:
Offence noted, but ignored. Its a news article, nothing more, nothing less. Some scientists looked into heart surgery and found that prayer has no benefit.
How that could possibly be insensitive to your situation I don't no. Kids with heart disease certainly support the 'there is no god' argument to me.
I don't see how there is anything to be offended by to be honest. Heart disease (indeed ALL disease) is a fact of life. Faith by its very nature is something which people have DESPITE a lack of evidence, or indeed the presence of evidence to the contrary. Kicking up a fuss because somebody has tested whether prayer works is silly. If you look at it logically it seems entirely self-evident that prayer doesn't work. Why would a God give someone heart disease and then cure them when asked to do so? What about those he decides not to cure? Seems like a waste of time - even for someone who has all eternity to waste. To the original poster, it sounds extremely petulant to criticise this thread because you don't want your faith questioned (assuming that's the problem - you don't make it very clear). That's the problem, faith flies in the face of tests and science and as soon as scientific reasoning hits back people get defensive.
Kavanne
No, because that is scientific evidence to back it up from many sources! Not just one study.
What evidence is there to back up God or religion?
Kavanne
There isn't, but you shouldn't thrust evidence of their non-existance in the face of believers (I am not a believer, btw)
I don't see anyone doing any thrusting. It was an article on the BBC website - that's hardly dynamite in the controversy stakes is it?
Kavanne
A moderator stickied it at the top of the forum.
Yeah, every week or so there is a different medicine-related news item. This was the 5th one. If someone has a strong faith why does it matter what some silly old scientists have discovered anyway?
englishstudent
Yeah, every week or so there is a different medicine-related news item. This was the 5th one. If someone has a strong faith why does it matter what some silly old scientists have discovered anyway?
If a scientist came out and said 'ALL CANCER INCURABLE' would you want to hear that? This is similar, but it's saying 'GOD WON'T HELP YOU, EVER'
Kavanne
If a scientist came out and said 'ALL CANCER INCURABLE' would you want to hear that? This is similar, but it's saying 'GOD WON'T HELP YOU, EVER'
It's not. It's saying that in one study of patients with heart disease prayer didn't seem to make a difference in curing people...
Edit: And yes, if all cancer WAS incurable I would want to know that. I'm not one for pretending that something will help when it won't. I am delighted they are checking to see if there is any medicinal value in prayer.
hulachick15
I found this thread rather offensive considering my youngest brother is disabled and has major heart problems as well as other things I felt it was not right for this person to look into problems on a article then post it on a public forum when others who know/have relatives/or have this problem I found this thread even though it had a sticky unfair :vmad:
Well if we took off everything that offended someone we wouldn't have much of a forum. I'm sorry that you have these issues in your life but the publicisation of a scientific paper is something forumites should relish and enjoy rather than censor.
MB
huh, wtf, i'm seriously confused. 
hulachick15 have you actually read all the posts in this thread?? Well, I'm guessing not, because if you had, you'd have seen this: If you believe in God, then you'll KNOW that what I said is true. Science can't prove religion wrong, so in a sense posting the article at the top was a little pointless as we came to that conclusion pretty quick. But still it led onto some discussion about the effects of Social Support on illness which you, yourself may be interested in?
hulachick15 have you actually read all the posts in this thread?? Well, I'm guessing not, because if you had, you'd have seen this: me, i.e. Saffie
I believe in God so naturally I think the experiment showing praying makes no difference is wrong. God doesn't perform miracles to entertain or to demand, which is essentially what the psychs/docs were making him do. The results also show the social support through praying aids recovery, which is no doubt true.
But I still think God is watching us and will answer heart-felt prayers. I also think he knows when our time is up, and sometimes it's his decision, not the person praying, to decide the fate of a patient. I don't think God's actions can be measured in an experimental hypothesis.
But I still think God is watching us and will answer heart-felt prayers. I also think he knows when our time is up, and sometimes it's his decision, not the person praying, to decide the fate of a patient. I don't think God's actions can be measured in an experimental hypothesis.
Erm, prayer did not help, fact. That is what the study showed.
Are you saying that God helps those who pray, but not those who pray but are in part of a scientific experiment?
How annoying is that. Your family prays for you. God has a look "ahh, they're praying, let's use a bit of my ompipotence here... what the... scientists? experimenting if prayer works? I will not 'perform miracles to entertain on demand', I'm outta here!"
Sorry, just doesn't sound believable.
Are you saying that God helps those who pray, but not those who pray but are in part of a scientific experiment?
How annoying is that. Your family prays for you. God has a look "ahh, they're praying, let's use a bit of my ompipotence here... what the... scientists? experimenting if prayer works? I will not 'perform miracles to entertain on demand', I'm outta here!"
Sorry, just doesn't sound believable.
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