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Was changing polytechnics into unis a good idea? watch

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    (Original post by Linweth)
    :confused:
    Vocational education or Vocational Education and Training (VET), also called Career and Technical Education (CTE), prepares learners for jobs that are based in manual or practical activities, traditionally non-academic and totally related to a specific trade, occupation or vocation, hence the term, in which the learner participates. It is sometimes referred to as technical education, as the learner directly develops expertise in a particular group of techniques or technology.

    Why would everyone know what this is?
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    (Original post by hellohello.)
    You are basically talking crap by saying that anyone who went to a Polytechnic will not do well in their career.

    I don't even know what a 'vocational course' is nor am I interested.
    If you are talking about polys you probably should.
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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    If you are talking about polys you probably should.
    I went to uni to do a degree not a vocational course. When I selected my course I selected it on the basis of what I was getting out of it. I did not go and research what vocational courses were on offer.

    Speaking of reaching the top in your field, you certainly won't with that arrogant and patronising attitude.
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    I don't think studying a degree at an ex-poly is a waste of time, far from it. A degree is a degree. Yes, some degrees will be more useful and respected than others (i.e. science degrees vs. tourism) but just because a degree is from a polytechnic doesn't mean that the student's job prospects are next to nothing.

    Just out of pure curiousity, what does everyone think the minimum grades should be to get into University with? (i.e. no less than CCC or whatever. I got BBD at A Level, should I have not gone to University?)
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    (Original post by amizzle91)
    I don't think studying a degree at an ex-poly is a waste of time, far from it. A degree is a degree. Yes, some degrees will be more useful and respected than others (i.e. science degrees vs. tourism) but just because a degree is from a polytechnic doesn't mean that the student's job prospects are next to nothing.

    Just out of pure curiousity, what does everyone think the minimum grades should be to get into University with? (i.e. no less than CCC or whatever. I got BBD at A Level, should I have not gone to University?)
    Exactly the attitudes of some people on this board are downright disgusting.

    I think it should be 240 UCAS points minimum as all graduate jobs seems to require this when applying.

    Then again I don't know much about the English education system so I guess 240 should be for Scotland.
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    (Original post by XJR)
    It didn't really change that much. By 1992 polytechnics were practically universities in all but name (i.e people did degrees all the way up to the level of PhDs there, research was carried out there), so it was an obvious decicion to make them all into universities.

    UK higher education is definately stronger for having all of the institutions as full Universities, rather than having a divide between universities and polytechnics.
    Despite this being true as this is TSR expect to have your head bitten off for that.
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    (Original post by Blátönn)
    Frankly people who can't get in to a proper university i.e one that doesn't require only two D's at A-Level should not be going to university anyway. As for keeping them busy - they could be doing that on an apprenticeship or a vocational college course and would have something useful at the end rather than a degree in Tourism Studies from Crapford Brookes University. it also devalues all UK degrees.
    Except Oxford Brookes is actually better than quite a few "traditional" unis :facepalm:
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    This debate will probably ramble on for weeks. The bottom line is there are snobs on here who are going to claim that polytechics are worthless. Then there are people who went to polytechics like myself who probably has better prospects than someone who went to a top tier university with no personality or social skills doing a relatively unimportant subject.
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    (Original post by hellohello.)
    You are basically talking crap by saying that anyone who went to a Polytechnic will not do well in their career.

    I don't even know what a 'vocational course' is nor am I interested.
    Social work, Nursing, Occupational therapy etc, not exactly useless degrees.

    I have more than two D's but ex-polys seems to want quite high grades from me, I don't know if that's just the competitiveness of psychology and London though.

    I like the broad choice of university that's offered (like someone said before many would pick a ex-poly for many reasons not just bad grades and only choice) and the 'second chance' given to people who maybe didn't so well in their A-levels but are still very intelligent, and like others have said they always did do degrees so it's mainly just name that’s changed anyway.

    ho-hum
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    (Original post by Natasha_c)
    Social work, Nursing, Occupational therapy etc, not exactly useless degrees.

    I have more than two D's but ex-polys seems to want quite high grades from me, I don't know if that's just the competitiveness of psychology and London though.

    I like the broad choice of university that's offered (like someone said before many would pick a ex-poly for many reasons not just bad grades and only choice) and the 'second chance' given to people who maybe didn't so well in their A-levels but are still very intelligent, and like others have said they always did do degrees so it's mainly just name that’s changed anyway.

    ho-hum
    Yeh as I previously said some poly's want higher grades than top tiers for certain subjects.

    You will probably have a better time at a poly anyway :o:

    Not everyone can breeze through school with straight A's, alot of people have things going on in their lives which prevents them from doing as well as others at school.
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    (Original post by hellohello.)
    I went to uni to do a degree not a vocational course. When I selected my course I selected it on the basis of what I was getting out of it. I did not go and research what vocational courses were on offer.

    Speaking of reaching the top in your field, you certainly won't with that arrogant and patronising attitude.
    Sorry didn't mean to come across like that.

    I am not saying degrees from ex-polys are worthless. I am saying, well an example:

    If I was totally nonacademic and didn't enjoy school, was a practical sort of person who wanted a job soon not an education. I didn't want to get a degree, I just wanted training for a specific job. Then now with the lack of polytechnics my choice is severely limited and of a much lower standard than the polytechnics were.

    It's not worthless degrees or snobbery, it's the fact that people who would go on to do apprenticeships and the like (but since there aren't many of the anymore) now have to go to university and get a degree rather than get the training they want.
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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    Sorry didn't mean to come across like that.

    I am not saying degrees from ex-polys are worthless. I am saying, well an example:

    If I was totally nonacademic and didn't enjoy school, was a practical sort of person who wanted a job soon not an education. I didn't want to get a degree, I just wanted training for a specific job. Then now with the lack of polytechnics my choice is severely limited and of a much lower standard than the polytechnics were.

    It's not worthless degrees or snobbery, it's the fact that people who would go on to do apprenticeships and the like (but since there aren't many of the anymore) now have to go to university and get a degree rather than get the training they want.
    It is ok, I understand what you are saying now.

    I honestly think that people in school now do not know much about what a polytechnic was.

    I agree though the government does have a problem with the way that young people are just being disregarded and not helped at all. The propspects for 80% of graduates are terrible at the moment. However, if you don't go to uni then your prospects are not that good either unless you pick up a trade.

    What each party would do for young people would be the basis of my vote in the election in March but seeing as they have yet to mention this then it seems the screwing over of young people will continue.
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    I agree that more people get degrees now - But it just means more competition, and that you're not automatically getting a job because you went to university. You have to really work for your degree now and get the best grade possible. And let's face it: Employers have a look at university ranks from time to time - If you're in the bottom five, you'll probably have a smaller chance of getting a job than if you're in the top five. :dontknow:
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    The point is that changing ex-polies into unis didn't stop them from offering vocational courses and indeed ex-polies do still offer this as a major part of their activities and they still lead the sector in this provision. All it has done is expand these institutions' activities into the more 'traditional' sphere of academic education and make them degree awarding institutions in their own right. However I do feel a great opportunity has been missed in that change by not allowing more funding to create world-class centres of vocational and applied learning and research rather than just creating new universities with no specific goals. However it did not fit with Tory policy to create world class institutions that specialise in raising to the professions those from predominantly working-class backgrounds. At the end of the day there is a massive difference in funding levels between ex-polies and older universities - it isn't a level playing field.

    The problem with reduction in apprenticeships and some vocational routes in more to do with employer disengagement from this type of route that began in the 80's. Indeed there is now a revival in apprenticeships, etc.
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    Like ChemistBoy said, the playing field between traditional universities and former poly's isn't even. In fact its quite the opposite, I would imagine traditional universities are very inefficient because of all this additional funding and them having to try and find ways to spend it.

    The biggest problem that most seem to not understand is that former poly's offer courses not just in Tourism and Surfing studies. The majority offer decent courses in vocational training and in academic subjects. We've even seen more and more traditional universities offering vocational courses now. So I would say there is little if any difference between the two nowadays.

    Of course most will follow league tables, but if you actually remove areas not relevant from these tables such as Research ratings. You'll find a much more varied picture, and if you go further to making it a system of equal funding. I'm sure the tables would look completely different, just think about it. It's really not that difficult to understand.

    And on the point of entry requirements being lower, they are ONLY lower because of a lack of demand for those courses. But I do agree that there should be a minimum grade to getting in anywhere, more like 300 instead of 240 UCAS points.
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    (Original post by chap54)
    Like ChemistBoy said, the playing field between traditional universities and former poly's isn't even. In fact its quite the opposite, I would imagine traditional universities are very inefficient because of all this additional funding and them having to try and find ways to spend it.

    The biggest problem that most seem to not understand is that former poly's offer courses not just in Tourism and Surfing studies. The majority offer decent courses in vocational training and in academic subjects. We've even seen more and more traditional universities offering vocational courses now. So I would say there is little if any difference between the two nowadays.

    Of course most will follow league tables, but if you actually remove areas not relevant from these tables such as Research ratings. You'll find a much more varied picture, and if you go further to making it a system of equal funding. I'm sure the tables would look completely different, just think about it. It's really not that difficult to understand.

    And on the point of entry requirements being lower, they are ONLY lower because of a lack of demand for those courses. But I do agree that there sound be a minimum grade to getting in anywhere, more like 300 instead of 240 UCAS points.
    Are we talking about from one year? Wouldn't that screw up the entire system. The highest I have for one year is 280 UCAS points, although I have more from my 5th year at high school.

    I know people working in top graduate jobs that have between 240 and 280. I think 300 is a bit excessive.
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    Consider the international angle: our polytechnics were university standard in the global field. Foreign students coming to Britain would have wanted to go to something called a university, yet many can't get into the ancients or red bricks. Thus, a simple name change is more or less a licence to take Johnny Foreigner for all he is worth.
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    (Original post by hellohello.)
    Are we talking about from one year? Wouldn't that screw up the entire system. The highest I have for one year is 280 UCAS points, although I have more from my 5th year at high school.

    I know people working in top graduate jobs that have between 240 and 280. I think 300 is a bit excessive.
    I am talking about 300 UCAS points, ie. BBB in A-levels or equivalent. Considering the A* is now in use at 140 each I think, I dont think BBB is too high. But that's just a matter of opinion.
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    (Original post by chap54)
    I am talking about 300 UCAS points, ie. BBB in A-levels or equivalent. Considering the A* is now in use at 140 each I think, I dont think BBB is too high. But that's just a matter of opinion.
    I think it is extremely high. Considering many graduate jobs require 240 then they clearly do not believe that UCAS points are that important.

    If you put entry to any university at 300 then you may aswell shut down over half the universities in the country.

    Also that would provide an unfair disadvantage for Scottish students. I have BBCCC at higher which is 280 points. Are you saying that I should have missed out on university as the English education system is ran differently and A Levels are worth more points?
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    So is this points system inclusive of AS levels or just A levels?
 
 
 
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