Enlightenment? Does happiness lie wherein there is no desire? (long & life discussed)

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Report Thread starter 16 years ago
I typed this up as a response to someone who feared existence. Or, at least had worries about it. Pray not for the absense of loss, but for the recognition that there is no loss. There is no ugly: only your lack of beauty in the beauty of all things. There is no pain: only the lack of your acknowledgement of pain as a blessing. Pain is meant to help you to survive, is it not? So fear it not.

If you need help understanding this, and enlightening your own view of yourself, of people, the origin and dealing with of desire, of fear, of pain, and the search for peace, read this very long explanation.

(Original post by Alec)
The point is though, that if what we consider as reality were a simulation, then we're not making our own decisions.

They're being controlled by a computer program, and in essence, that makes us unconscious. We're just programmed to consider that unconsciousness as consciousness.
Then you are implying your desires were programmed for torture, or your imagination as such. You are implying the people who created us are also simulations.

There is no "us" -- only the EGO believing you are YOU. Because your thoughts, experiences, etc. are different, you believe you are different when viewing other people. The physical world is physical. It is a huge machine. But, we ultimately decide what our next move is going to be. If you don't get up and move, you aren't going to get up and move. I am fine with this, I see no reason why anyone else is.

Without my body, my thoughts, experiences, I am then simply truth. I am what is, beyond what I find. This is what I am now, this is what you are. We are all one and the same, if we all had the same experiences, we would be the same, would we not? If we all experienced the same exact thing, from the same exact body, we would be one and the same.

Don't let the inner voices in your head become reality. Every day the future continues, and every day the future is different. This is good enough for me. And when I die, I can simply assume I will continue on in different experiences. What separates my consciousness from yours is where people become afraid.

What if nobody else exists?!?!!? Then I know that I am everything, that all my needs are my own, that everything is my own, that I am. That all my fears are my own, all my punishments are my own, etc. This is true, anyway, as we all experience different things. We are all God. What separates my control from you, and yours from me, is confusing. I cannot explain this, but at least I know I control my movements and actions. Isn't this enough to assume I control my future? My happiness? Or do you fear existence is toying with you? Using you to entertain itself? While you have sense of hope, you also do not. This is somehow amusing?

Well, I know we are one and the same. All I know is what I am, and what I imagine is what I create to be. This is good enough for me, let it be you. If our fate is doom, then we obviously have no control over this, now do we? So the little voices in your head giving you fear, the little questions, etc. are now pointless, aren't they? If I am doomed to exist no longer, when I exist no more, it wouldn't matter, now would it? I would simply be wasting away as I fear the "end of me" is when I fear it is, now isn't it? But there is happiness in life, and this tells me there is hope. If the voices in my head are taunting me, and I know these voices are not me, just little entertainment I pursue in search of hope to the answers to the questions of yet another voice, then I know that I am my own, I am alone.

People are too afraid to be alone, really. Their worst fear of death is existing alone. Hopeless and not being reached out for. When you fear your fate is different from others, you begin fearing you are alone. If you fear you are in pain, and others in happiness, you feel alone. This is your being, the endless being you are, in stress over the confusion that you have that we are not one and the same. The physical is different, but it also changes all the time, so have hope. You see happiness around you, when you believe happiness is out of reach, you know you are afraid of being alone. Happiness is in reach. If nobody is happy, then what are you in search of? Something that doesn't exist?

All I can say is, because we exist, have faith. Thinking negatively will only hurt you. It comes from giving your self a self-assured state of loss. People often fear living, but in torture. Would you rather live in hell forever, or not at all? I personally, not at all. But I believe hell is really just my own mental anguish from doubt. Whenever I want something (whether physical comfort, love, assurance, pleasure, this, or that) I also end up not wanting something. When I don't want something, I end up in a hellish confusion. Well, will I or won't I receive what I want, or will I receive what I don't want?

Then the voices in your head give you an ultimatum (sp?): You cannot live without your desires!!! As such, you can never live has assurance of happiness when you have the ability to lose what you want, or never have!!!! You can be given the opposite, and live in pain!!!!

You are not your thoughts. Your thoughts are experiences. Words that you heard. Imagination is images you've seen. MEMORY
When you put it altogether, you create pleasure, but also pain if you want to. The imagination lives in its imagination. You also control this, this is entertainment. Do not plague your memories with negativity. You hold the power. There is no governing force handing out pain as a necessity. You do not have to want or need something if you choose not to.

If you wanted nothing, and cared for nothing, you would have nothing to lose. If you wanted pain, pain would no longer harm you. If you did not want pain, pain would harm you. It would manifest as a fear.

If you want something, you hold the ability to lose, but also gain. If you want nothing, you hold the ability to just be, experience. Laziness comes from wanting to be still, to do nothing, but get what you want. If you don't wanna work for something, you will fear never having for not doing.

You control you. This is what hell is. It's a state of mind. See, when you die, if you continue wanting physical things, feeling you are incomplete without them, or something else from life, you will be in your own fiery hell of passion. When you die, you exist, still, but you no longer have a body. So if you are no longer physical, you cannot obtain physical, unless you reincarnate (also note, if you are Christian, that even the Bible teaches reincarnation, it's really a fact of the universe, which just about every religion teaches, so it's really not a crazy belief at all in case you've ever decided it is).

If you believe you cannot exist without what you want, you are no longer happy. You gave yourself an ultimatum, when YOU, being thoughtless and bodiless in origin (with no end or beginning, just existent), are meant to experience all possibility. See, if you didn't want anything, you would be completely happy, and do what you can to keep your body alive. When you die, you really lose nothing, now do you? This is the point of life, obtaining your peace of mind. This way when you die, you are no longer in your hellish state of loss. However, there are other reasons to living besides overcoming your own hell. You create your hell, you create your heaven. If you live in hell, your own mental anguish, you will, BEING YOU IN YOUR OWN PURSUIT OF YOUR HAPPINESS, will obviously choose to reincarnate. Hell comes in degrees, however, and hell is really just a suspended state of your own mental anguish in which you pursue for some reason which none of us really know. We all do it, but we don't know why. Perhaps it is because we are trying to seek superiority, and we, being one and everything beyond our physical, being our own spirit, respond by saying, "There is no such thing as worth, only choice, which leads to different to lives. There is no punishment, nor pain. Only opinion, and the more negative you are in your opinions and choices (with regards to "worth"--what deserves more or less attention), the more negative your life's results. If you see only positive, then there's really nothing that can harm you, now is there? It is all in perception--YOUR OWN PERCEPTION."

We are all discovering our own individuality by experiencing different things. Ultimately, our path, our destiny, our existence, will lead us directly back to existence itself, to God, or to ourself, or to everything, and we will be at peace.

Have you noticed the more you talk to yourself in your head, the less happier you are? Why is it that you hate the "companionship", but cannot live without it? Perhaps this is why it is hard for people to understand perfection. They have gone so long without it...believing they must be communicating to exist--even communicating with their self, their own brain. But when you no longer need the body, nor the brain, realizing we are all one, and the very idea of thinking itself is, in itself, only part of evolution, and not necessary, and you exist with or without communication, you realize we are all one and the same, and our "path to God" is not one of need, but one of our own. Our own path to existence, to peace. I, personally, would love to live without thinking.
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Report Thread starter 16 years ago
People often believe they cannot exist without communicating. This came when they learned communication. Then their whole life was spent trying to prove their self...PROVE THEIR EXISTENCE. Requiring attention, requiring power, requiring itself. See, as a baby, you knew you were not different, you simply were. When you learned communication, you began to communicate with yourself as a means of surviving with an already communicating population. Afterall, the EGO (or the mind, the Body, really) is in pursuit of survival! If you don't communicate, and everyone else does, then the way that people tended to you when you were a baby no longer would happen. You would die. This is the belief! Babies grow up being given all that they need. When they no longer do, they must begin communicating beyond crying, baby talk, whatever. We learn communication through everything in order to get what we need to stay alive.

Then as we grow in society, we realize the more people there are that give us attention (as they did when we were born, when I got everything I wanted, everything I needed--therefore the attention of others, as we ALL believe, and know, really, because we made it true) means obtaining the things we need to survive. So us, realizing communication brings things our way, believe it is necessary to survive by communicating, by thinking, or talking, or responding, or doing something. In actuality, this is true because people really don't have instincts, we must use each other to survive in a world where we also rule it. This is basically the rule of thumb: he with power must have most what we desire. We all seek power, because this means we live easier. We live healthier, longer, happier. This is health: having all that you desire.

Enlightenment teaches we do not have to desire to survive. It is hard for us to ever know if this is true, because we can't prove beyond a doubt that it is possible. We believe if we did not desire food, we would not eat it, so we would die.

This is why we follow trends. As babies we were taught that copying people with what gives pleasure is the key (ie. somebody asks their dad for money and receives it, but if you do not, you do not receive it--and if you do receive it, without asking, you might believe you are "worth more" because you didn't have to work, or "ask for it", and still got it). So, you learn to ask for it. If walking over to grab food will give someone else food, I must also learn to walk to get my food. Likewise, if you work for something to get it, and someone else doesn't, you might believe you are worth less, or deserving of being worth more. If you never learned loss, you would not have learned communication, your body would exist on instinct, you would be conscious (note that consciousness is not THINKING as you might define it to be--your body is acting, and living, but you're still behind it. Whenever it recognizes loss, it wakes up and works harder, feeling it must "redeem itself" for becoming lazy). This is all learned...learned, learned, learned. What is truth? Well, basically, what you do with the "pure heart", or without the idea of worth, or your child-like idea "receiving is worth, society's requirements decides all worth and ability to receive", as explained above, will bring you the things you're looking for.

This is what enlightenment is, recognizing you have lived a life in search of proof of worth, and fearing loss, but the whole time ignoring your own innate happiness beyond society. Society is looking out for society, looking for number one. You are as well. See what's best for you, and not what's best for society. This is the universal law--beyond all the "chatter", the "voices", and ideas of separation. What did you come to life for? We all have different paths, as we have separate bodies for separate reasons. But ultimately, we are living life to die. We come to experience, and then we ultimately die, and return to truth, reality, US BEING.

There is no desire, only the confusion of worth. All is a gift. Though you work and push a rock up a hill, without the universe, this rock would not move, you would not push. Your body then feels fatigue. It is proving it did something. Pain allows you to learn. All learning comes from losing. This does not mean losing is necessary, in fact, the universe is not there to take away from you. Your body learns from losing. If nobody had anything you wanted, and you had all that you wanted, and all that you ever needed to keep this, forever, you would never have learned to talk. You would have seen everyone else as being "poor", you would have not cared to think, to separate yourself, you would not have needed to. You would have existed forever, in bliss.

People often believe they must lose to prove to their self they can deal with loss. To prove they would be the same person without what they have now. When they lose everything, and then gain it back, do they not feel more "enlightened"? They have a sense of what it means to have, and to have not. They became aware of their desires. When you wait for something, or look for something, you will never find it. When you realize there is no waiting, you have already found it, because there is nothing to wait for.
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