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Land Rovers & 4x4's the future watch

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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    I'm not going to argue about being, and perhaps feeling, safer in a bigger car, but I can vouch for the stopping ability of the newest Micra, the brakes saved me, in similar situations to yours, many a time. Car had a weedy horn though! I did also use engine braking, but that's just sensible, I'd say.

    One of the crashes was due to someone underestimating the braking of my Micra, btw.
    Fair enough.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    :facepalm: for me, this is what I get for posting and watching a film at the same time.
    Have you not learnt yet, men cannot multi-task :p:
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    We’ve owned land rovers ever since I can remember, we’ve taken them across the Namibian desert over the Ukrainian mountains and through Australia not to mention towing things on the farm, my first car was a series 3 that I fixed up myself, there loud, slow and they leak like a sieve yet I wound not have them any other way...

    To tax them properly you need to establish what it is there being used for, if its for there original purpose thats fine if not then maybe yes they should incur a higher tax
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    (Original post by gbduo)
    Have you not learnt yet, men cannot multi-task :p:
    I'm trying, and failing, to change that stereotypical view. :p:



    On topic, Land Rover are going to introduce a hybrid 4x4, with the back wheels driven by the electric motor and front by combustion engine, so 4x4s definitely have a major role to play in the future, and now. Bigger engined vehicles are just easy pickings for the beancounters.
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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    4x4s are **** and useless for the vast majority of people. The only 4x4 I would get is and Impreza or Audi not a big high thing that would be no fun to drive.

    They tend to be driven for a status symbol or because the people are so **** at driving they know when they crash they want to come off better than the other guy.

    Also most of your post is ********.
    You have absolutely no idea how much fun my 20 year old rust bucket is to drive. Give me a bendy A-road at night (A377 from Morchard Road to Barnstaple) and I'll have a smile from ear to ear clipping every apex. Thanks to an extra 400W of lighting on the front I'll almost certainly have much brighter lights than you making it safer for me to drive at night too.

    Partly mine is a status symbol, but not in the way you seem to think it is. It says that as an 18 year old guy I'm bucking the trend of Puntos, Saxos and Fiestas and driving a car with real character and practical uses. It performed faultlessly in the snow one day, had two 6ftx4ft sheets of wood and a bath on the roof the next morning, and ferried 9 people around the evening after. We don't own a trailer because anything we need to carry will either go in the boot or on the capacious roof rack (big enough to pitch a two man tent on, behind the spare wheel and toolbox). My and Dad's next project is to build a two-berth sleeping platform inside that folds up for normal use but can extend out to give a comfortable sleeping arrangement at night.

    And I'm not so **** at driving I want to know that I'll be safe in a crash, but it helps to know its there. Several times in the ice or snow on country roads both me and my Dad were caught out but she just bounces off the hedge without a scratch and drives on. A lot of the people that come in my car often comment about not only how safe they feel in the car but how safe my driving is and my girlfriend has no qualms about going to sleep across the front seats (there are three) with her head in my lap (no sniggering at the back there!). It may be because I can't go any faster than 60 (70 at a push) or because the way the car's built forces me to drive properly (brake and choose gear before the corner, steer and power out) but I just can't drive like a knob and as a result people appreciate that.

    It's ignorant misconceptions such as yours that are killing out the 4x4 industry and those who love it.
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    (Original post by Nuffles)
    You have absolutely no idea how much fun my 20 year old rust bucket is to drive. Give me a bendy A-road at night (A377 from Morchard Road to Barnstaple) and I'll have a smile from ear to ear clipping every apex. Thanks to an extra 400W of lighting on the front I'll almost certainly have much brighter lights than you making it safer for me to drive at night too.

    Partly mine is a status symbol, but not in the way you seem to think it is. It says that as an 18 year old guy I'm bucking the trend of Puntos, Saxos and Fiestas and driving a car with real character and practical uses. It performed faultlessly in the snow one day, had two 6ftx4ft sheets of wood and a bath on the roof the next morning, and ferried 9 people around the evening after. We don't own a trailer because anything we need to carry will either go in the boot or on the capacious roof rack (big enough to pitch a two man tent on, behind the spare wheel and toolbox). My and Dad's next project is to build a two-berth sleeping platform inside that folds up for normal use but can extend out to give a comfortable sleeping arrangement at night.

    And I'm not so **** at driving I want to know that I'll be safe in a crash, but it helps to know its there. Several times in the ice or snow on country roads both me and my Dad were caught out but she just bounces off the hedge without a scratch and drives on. A lot of the people that come in my car often comment about not only how safe they feel in the car but how safe my driving is and my girlfriend has no qualms about going to sleep across the front seats (there are three) with her head in my lap (no sniggering at the back there!). It may be because I can't go any faster than 60 (70 at a push) or because the way the car's built forces me to drive properly (brake and choose gear before the corner, steer and power out) but I just can't drive like a knob and as a result people appreciate that.

    It's ignorant misconceptions such as yours that are killing out the 4x4 industry and those who love it.
    Ok, I still think it is rather needless. But in general I don't have anything against these 4x4s as they can acctually do something useful, like go off road, carry huge amounts of things/people. It's more the X5s, X6s, Range rover Sports that apply for what I said before.

    PS. Also I don't think it is a trend that people follow when they buy small hatchbacks, it is more to do with insurance. And I would prefer new drivers to be driving around in small hatchbacks than 2 tonne battleships.
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    4x4 rules
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    Without Land Rovers, my life would not be worth living :O.

    Not really, of course, but I do love them very very much. And they make my life much easier by allowing me to go offroad to collect and tow my balloon!

    I would be pretty upset if my tax went up because of bloody greenhouse gas emissions... I'd rather the Government tried to convince me that "eco friendliness" was a good thing than just tax and fine me into submission. It's especially bad that it's a blanket tax on all big engined cars regardless of circumstances. They're also starting to charge an extra £142 for the tax on a second vehicle in a household, which is also a ridiculous scheme that will effect not only single people who drive two cars just for fun, but also families who need two cars to commute and do the school run, or other reasons. Even then I still don't agree that it's necessary. Tax is a silly blunt instrument.
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    Whilst I can see peoples frustrations I do think that if one takes climate change seriously you have to see that we must tax the majority of the population out of personal transport (unless you can get things running adequately off an electric system).

    Starting by pushing people to more efficient means of transport is the most logical place to start, all the snow and ice arguments being frankly irrelevant from a population perspective. Given the amount of the year that is affected by such adverse conditions it doesn't make economic sense to avoid the country grinding to a halt.
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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    Ok, I still think it is rather needless. But in general I don't have anything against these 4x4s as they can acctually do something useful, like go off road, carry huge amounts of things/people. It's more the X5s, X6s, Range rover Sports that apply for what I said before.

    PS. Also I don't think it is a trend that people follow when they buy small hatchbacks, it is more to do with insurance. And I would prefer new drivers to be driving around in small hatchbacks than 2 tonne battleships.
    Of course it's a trend. Small hatchbacks typically are terrible to insure simply because so many retards get behind the wheel and crash them. A small saloon car would probably be cheaper to insure with a slightly larger engine. There are so many cars out there that you can find something a little different, a little quirky, that isn't the required boy racer. There are quite a few small older Japanese cars built with 4 wheel drive, for instance, and they stick to the road like superglue and go pretty damn quick if you tune them up a little but are simply discounted because they aren't what everyone else is driving

    And you really prefer new driver to be driving around in small hatchbacks? Small hatchbacks give the sense of good handling and of the driver being in control but when they let go, they let go big time and a large accident is the result. There is nothing about my car that instills confidence, from the lock-happy rear wheel braking to the 3 inches of play in the steering and as a result I've learnt to respect my machine. One tonne of metal being driven by an idiot is far more a danger to the public than two tonnes of metal being driven by someone that respects it.
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    (Original post by Nuffles)
    Of course it's a trend. Small hatchbacks typically are terrible to insure simply because so many retards get behind the wheel and crash them. A small saloon car would probably be cheaper to insure with a slightly larger engine. There are so many cars out there that you can find something a little different, a little quirky, that isn't the required boy racer. There are quite a few small older Japanese cars built with 4 wheel drive, for instance, and they stick to the road like superglue and go pretty damn quick if you tune them up a little but are simply discounted because they aren't what everyone else is driving

    And you really prefer new driver to be driving around in small hatchbacks? Small hatchbacks give the sense of good handling and of the driver being in control but when they let go, they let go big time and a large accident is the result. There is nothing about my car that instills confidence, from the lock-happy rear wheel braking to the 3 inches of play in the steering and as a result I've learnt to respect my machine. One tonne of metal being driven by an idiot is far more a danger to the public than two tonnes of metal being driven by someone that respects it.
    If it was just a trend then do you not think more people would have cottoned on?
    And the majority of teenagers don't want to drive something a little different and quirky because they don't try to make themselves look unique that way to compensate for a lack of personality. Its the car equivalent of someone wearing pink shoes and proclaiming themselves wild and 'out there!'.

    Plus that has nothing to do with how pointless big 4x4s are other than using off road. So far we have 3 reasons:
    Status symbol.
    Wanting to kill the other guy in a crash.
    Wanting to look unique.

    Well, everyone should get one then...
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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    4x4s are **** and useless for the vast majority of people. The only 4x4 I would get is and Impreza or Audi not a big high thing that would be no fun to drive.

    They tend to be driven for a status symbol or because the people are so **** at driving they know when they crash they want to come off better than the other guy.

    Also most of your post is ********.
    They're not **** when the weather is so bad that 4x4 + snow tyres + chains = the only way of getting anywhere. My 'glorified tank' (that's how my neighbour described it until she needed my help) lives in the garage most of the time, but with the weather we've had recently that vehicle and my driving skills were the only way people near where I live could get food supplies, prescriptions and, in one very serious case, emergency medical care. I don't give a toss whether it's 'fun' to drive, it's not my primary transport, but when you're under 2 feet of snow, the council can't be bothered to send a snow plough and the ambulance can't get through...figure it out!

    When you live outside of a major town, a 4x4 is the best back up plan you can have with respect to transport.
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    4x4s have their place in the world. However, i object to these city dwelling people who have to have a 4x4 because of the safety it gives them and because the terrain requires it. No it doesn't and you're only going at 30mph most of the time so it's hardly going to smash the front of your car into your legs and kill you. It seems to me that a lot of the people who insist on owning a 4x4 even though they live in town are women who generally can't drive well at all and because of that feel unsafe. They need the size and height of the 4x4 to make themselves feel safe rather than just learning to drive properly.

    Also, I hate this car with a passion.
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    4x4 are ugly creatures.
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    (Original post by terpineol)
    Whilst I can see peoples frustrations I do think that if one takes climate change seriously you have to see that we must tax the majority of the population out of personal transport (unless you can get things running adequately off an electric system).

    Starting by pushing people to more efficient means of transport is the most logical place to start, all the snow and ice arguments being frankly irrelevant from a population perspective. Given the amount of the year that is affected by such adverse conditions it doesn't make economic sense to avoid the country grinding to a halt.
    But why force people to change their ways for a scientific theory which, it must be said with reference to the most recent weather in the country and noticably changing public opinions, does not hold as much sway as it did even as soon as a year ago... The Government should, if it's so serious about climate change, educate, not force people to become "climate friendly". Of course, this comes into problems with the international government and international agreements on carbon dioxide emissions, but the same applies there.

    This shouldn't turn into a debate on the validity of climate change as caused by mankind, but surely in order to change peoples' actions, it is first necessary to change peoples' mentality, and simply taxing them is not going to do this.
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    4X4 ftw! Just wish we have gas prices in par with US

    Also if I may say something. Car emission taxes and "green campaigns" are just corporate supported bs; just another way of making "green" business.
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    (Original post by spaztasticmania)
    But why force people to change their ways for a scientific theory which, it must be said with reference to the most recent weather in the country and noticably changing public opinions, does not hold as much sway as it did even as soon as a year ago... The Government should, if it's so serious about climate change, educate, not force people to become "climate friendly". Of course, this comes into problems with the international government and international agreements on carbon dioxide emissions, but the same applies there.

    This shouldn't turn into a debate on the validity of climate change as caused by mankind, but surely in order to change peoples' actions, it is first necessary to change peoples' mentality, and simply taxing them is not going to do this.

    Ignoring the climate change debate and focusing on ways to change peoples behaviour... (as I do hate the way threads get stuck in that endless circle)...

    I would argue quite the opposite, I enjoy driving and have no intention of giving it up while I can afford it, despite likeing to class myself as well educated on the issue. I simply place my enjoyment above the wellbeing of the rest of humanity.

    To my mind people are far too stubborn to change their ways voluntarily on such an issue (well, pretty much any issue really), and as such if we wish to make changes as a population we effectively have to force peoples hands.

    Lets look at smoking for instance, though there are methods other than 'tax the hell out of smokers' to try and get them to stop, where most people give up is when a new blow hits them and you say 'here is the alternative', for instance banning smoking in pubs whilst peddling GP stop smoking clinics.
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    Of course instead of a 4x4 you could just get winter tires but "they're expensive" as concluded in the other thread.

    However, I disagree with extra parking tax based on engine size. That's just silly. If you want to bump up the tax on CO2 emmissions, you can just increase fuel tax. Amount of fuel burned is directly related to CO2 emmissions anyway. A Prius driven 30k a year will pollute more than a Freelander driven 5k.
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    (Original post by The Referee)
    They're not **** when the weather is so bad that 4x4 + snow tyres + chains = the only way of getting anywhere. My 'glorified tank' (that's how my neighbour described it until she needed my help) lives in the garage most of the time, but with the weather we've had recently that vehicle and my driving skills were the only way people near where I live could get food supplies, prescriptions and, in one very serious case, emergency medical care. I don't give a toss whether it's 'fun' to drive, it's not my primary transport, but when you're under 2 feet of snow, the council can't be bothered to send a snow plough and the ambulance can't get through...figure it out!

    When you live outside of a major town, a 4x4 is the best back up plan you can have with respect to transport.
    Ok, so I can just come to you now if I want to know about the 'vast majority of people' since you seem to think you acctually are the 'vast majority of people'. Especially since you actually made 'vast majority of people' bold.
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    4X4 ftw! Just wish we have gas prices in par with US

    Also if I may say something. Car emission taxes and "green campaigns" are just corporate supported bs; just another way of making "green" business.
    Well you're obviously disabled.
 
 
 
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