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Land Rovers & 4x4's the future watch

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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    Ok, so I can just come to you now if I want to know about the 'vast majority of people' since you seem to think you acctually are the 'vast majority of people'. Especially since you actually made 'vast majority of people' bold.
    It wasn't the 'vast majority' bit that I was getting at as teh rest of my post highlighted.

    The 'vast majority' comment may apply in towns and cities, but there is a significant percentage of people who don't live in large towns/cities.
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    (Original post by neil44)
    My dad's SUV Is built like a tank. Every time I sit in it I feel so safe. Why the hell should my dad have to pay more tax for emissions, when he worked his a$$ off to be able to afford it. Its not like he said one day "lets buy the car which gives off the most c02 and see if we can kill as much wild life as possible". He bought it because a.) There are 7 seats so we can all travel as a family and b) Its safe
    For people who say 4X4's emit too much c02, move on. People friggin die due to civil war and terrorism every day. Do you bat an eyelid when this happens? No.
    If you've ever seen what happens to some of these "road legal" cars like "Nissan Micra's etc." in an accident on the motorway then you'd be the first to buy a 4X4 if you could afford it.
    Firstly I'd just like to point out that I like 'proper' 4x4s that are actually used for their purpose, not just Chelsea tractors.

    In regards to 4x4s being safer than small cars, this can be a bit of a misconception. They certainly feel safer when your sat inside them, however there are weaknesses to the shape and size of them. The high center of gravity makes them much more likely to roll (there was a feature about this on fifth gear a few years ago).

    Secondly, the sheer weight of them makes breaking and avoiding a collision a lot harder. After all this, if you hit a solid object like a tree, you've got a lot more energy going in to the crash then in a small car - simple physics.

    Older 4x4s tended to have very sharp metal dashboards to injure passengers as well.

    Ultimately, the worst safety aspect of 4x4s is the danger to other road users because of the weight of the vehicles and the height of the bonnet.

    On the plus side, the cabin area is often strong and there is room for crumple zones at the front. Newer 4x4s are a lot safer then the old ones.
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    (Original post by scorpion95)
    In the snow it was Land Rover's and other proper 4x4's that could handle it and helped to save lives. With anti 4x4 campaigners and green peace trying to destroy the last of the british car manufacturers and getting the government to tax them off the road it will be really bad for this country.

    I really don't want to be picky, but my Austin 7 actually performed better in the snow than our 4x4, the many others I saw struggling (and overtook ) going uphill and the Disco that ended up on its side in our ditch.

    Granted perhaps it's the drivers who are at fault, not the cars, but that's exactly it - a lot of the time when smaller, non 4x4 cars are stuggling, it's because the drivers can't adapt to the weather, not because the cars are utterly useless on snow.
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    (Original post by terpineol)
    Ignoring the climate change debate and focusing on ways to change peoples behaviour... (as I do hate the way threads get stuck in that endless circle)...

    I would argue quite the opposite, I enjoy driving and have no intention of giving it up while I can afford it, despite likeing to class myself as well educated on the issue. I simply place my enjoyment above the wellbeing of the rest of humanity.

    To my mind people are far too stubborn to change their ways voluntarily on such an issue (well, pretty much any issue really), and as such if we wish to make changes as a population we effectively have to force peoples hands.

    Lets look at smoking for instance, though there are methods other than 'tax the hell out of smokers' to try and get them to stop, where most people give up is when a new blow hits them and you say 'here is the alternative', for instance banning smoking in pubs whilst peddling GP stop smoking clinics.
    But is it really the Government's job to tell the people what is best for them? It's coming down to an issue of morality now: is it better that you limit someone's freedom in the name of a "greater good" (even if to that person the greater good seems unreal) than allow their freedom to decide for themselves whether or not that greater good is worth effecting their lives and daily routines for.

    Surely the fact that you yourself don't want to change your ways unless forced to do so shows that the negative effects of going "green" in that sense outweigh the negative effects of driving a vehicle in our mentality... If the Government were to persuade the population that the effects of driving cars as much as we do will cause our climate to change in some catastrophic way, to the extent that people change their ways naturally, then the nation as a whole will have decided that their vehicles are not worth the risk to human kind.

    The same applies for smoking. The problem is that I assume you are of the persuasion that it IS in fact a good idea for the Government to force people to do what is best for them, which is fair enough. I am just more fond of the idea that the Government should do what the people want, not the other way around. So really, this line of argument can't achieve any meaningful end...
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    (Original post by Charlski)
    I really don't want to be picky, but my Austin 7 actually performed better in the snow than our 4x4, the many others I saw struggling (and overtook ) going uphill and the Disco that ended up on its side in our ditch.

    Granted perhaps it's the drivers who are at fault, not the cars, but that's exactly it - a lot of the time when smaller, non 4x4 cars are stuggling, it's because the drivers can't adapt to the weather, not because the cars are utterly useless on snow.
    I had this before in an old Renault driving up to some local hills. There were 4x4s getting stuck everywhere (they were chelsea tractor type 4x4s though mostly) and I could cruise in my 2wd with no problems. As you say though it has to be driver error.

    Best thing to do is de - flate your tyres a bit for more grip, stick to higher gears, no sudden braking or steering and you'll be fine. Use momentum to get up hills. I managed to drive nearly every day through the snowy weather this year in a ford focus.
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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    Well you're obviously disabled.
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    Well yes it is valid. I was warning people not to listen to a disabled, religious nutcase rave on about conspiracy theories.
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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    Well yes it is valid. I was warning people not to listen to a disabled, religious nutcase rave on about conspiracy theories.


    You're putting yourself and your mates in a bad light with such childish attitude and if you've actually done some research you'd find that encouraging people to reuse used cars is far more efficient than scrapping all the cars on the streets to buy a small new car which costs more. Moreover older cars don't mean higher pollution. A 90's 1 litre although it may lack some almost insignificant environmental friendly features is still more efficient than to produce a new 1 litre car.

    I didn't say that Global Warming isn't happening but there are many business who are profiting from it; unethically.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle1844448.ece
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    (Original post by theBOON)


    You're putting yourself and your mates in a bad light with such childish attitude and if you've actually done some research you'd find that encouraging people to reuse used cars is far more efficient than scrapping all the cars on the streets to buy a small new car which costs more. Moreover older cars don't mean higher pollution. A 90's 1 litre although it may lack some almost insignificant environmental friendly features is still more efficient than to produce a new 1 litre car.

    I didn't say that Global Warming isn't happening but there are many business who are profiting from it; unethically.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle1844448.ece
    What mates? I didn't mention anything about the scrappage scheme. You have literally just pulled that all out your arse because I didn't mention anything you posted even once.
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    (Original post by _KilgoreTrout_)
    What mates? I didn't mention anything about the scrappage scheme. You have literally just pulled that all out your arse because I didn't mention anything you posted even once.
    You just went completely out of topic and when I replied on topic I'm pulling out of my arse? I applaud your debating skills.
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    You just went completely out of topic and when I replied on topic I'm pulling out of my arse? I applaud your debating skills.
    lol do your 'debates' normally involve showing people motivational posters repeatedly?

    I didn't go off topic, I called you disabled.
 
 
 
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