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    (Original post by wtid)
    Anyone who believes that workers producing products in developing countries are treated well is not ignorant, they're naive. Nobody can pretend they don't know what's going on, they just don't have it pushed in their face 24/7 so they can ignore it.
    Not knowing which products were manufactured by exploited/mistreated workers is ignorance, and one experienced my all but a handful of shoppers. To truly be an 'ethical shopper' you'd have to know the production/transportation methods of every single item you ever considered buying. It's a bit like perfect competition, nice idea, but only that: an idea.
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    (Original post by Peakey)
    Do to others as you would like done to yourself. Reduce suffering, let people in other contries have equally fulfilling lives. Life would be crap if you had no or little hope for the future, which is what people with no education and no job or hope of getting one have.

    And of course God would want us too.
    God doesn't exist.

    I'd like people giving me handouts all the time, they do not, so I will not.
    Did you know chicks go through lots of suffering to provide us with eggs? I bet you still like eggs. Male chicks are killed, because they are of no use.

    Why is it my responsibility that other people get education or jobs or hope? Is it also my responsibility if a husband is beating his wife? Is it also my responsibility if someone falls down a flight of stairs? I'm not stopping other people from having fulfilling lives, I allow them to, but I still don't see any big reason to why I SHOULD take it upon myself to make sure that they do. Would they do the same for me?

    I had a friend who wanted to be a pilot, he broke his collar bone whilst skiing and had titanium put in place, RAF said no. Before that he was training and paying out lots of money to learn to fly. Was anyone helping him become a pilot other than his family? Were there any Haitians offering up some money to make sure his life was fulfilled? No.

    Haitians can't help us, so quid pro ro isn't a good reason to help them. Even so it's self interest, and that's not really something you can base a moral decision on.
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    Our humanity is a part of our evolutionary process.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Our humanity is a part of our evolutionary process.
    No it's not, it's a social construct. Putting aside everything biological about us, everything that makes us human is based on our culture.
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    (Original post by RachaelS)
    This

    But in all seriousness the majority of humans have compassion towards their fellow human being, for most people seeing another person suffer is a BAD thing and we want to do something to ease that suffering.

    But i do understand your point about caring for your own country first and i must say it i cant understand how the british govt can afford to donate £20 million odd to haiti when we have the economic problems we have just now and a rather large black hole of debt but we're helping our fellow humans.

    As for iraq and afghanistan they are completely different situations to haiti so arent really comparable
    The economic problem was not caused by a lack of money, Britain is in the economic crisis because it depends on America. American households got saturated, and people started buying less things. The American economy shrunk, the rest of the world did apart from India and China. If you think the economic crisis can be solved by money, you are mistaken, there are so many factors.
    The population of the UK is estimated at 61,000,000, donating £20,000,000 on average 33p per head. I'm more than happy pay that one off premium so that someone could get his/her life started again. I'm sure others are too.
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    (Original post by Chucklefiend)
    A nation such as Japan prepares for such eventualities because they are an intelligent, resourceful and strong country. Haiti was poorly prepared for a scenario such as this, i.e. their health system was poor, education was poor and buildings were not designed to withstand earthquakes, despite the fact that the country is positioned precisely between two colliding tectonic plates. It is this kind of weakness and lack of foresight that would be extinguished, without mercy, in the natural world.
    You do know that Japan is in pretty big trouble finacially. You know Japan banking crisis. Basically, if it wasen't for western Europe then Japan would be bankrupt.
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    here here. although i did see a woman fleeing her crumbling house holding an iron, at least she had her priorities sorted.
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    (Original post by Salt_)
    No it's not, it's a social construct. Putting aside everything biological about us, everything that makes us human is based on our culture.
    Yes, and our culture has evolved with us over time. That is why we are no longer Neanderthals who operate on a basic, primitive instinct.
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    (Original post by jaggedspike)
    .
    Why did you delete your comment?

    Im curious to know why you find my opinion disturbing. Certainly it is rather detached from the mainstream human thought, but I believe that to be because people envelope themselves in society and do not care to take a step back and attempt to look at our condition with a degree of objectively.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Yes, and our culture has evolved with us over time. That is why we are no longer Neanderthals who operate on a basic, primitive instinct.
    That still doesn't provide any reason to why we should care. Why are you even in this thread if you're not going to contribute?
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Yes, and our culture has evolved with us over time. That is why we are no longer Neanderthals who operate on a basic, primitive instinct.
    I would disagree, it is evident every day that society is just a patchwork cover over this basic, primitive instinct.
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    (Original post by wtid)
    Anyone who believes that workers producing products in developing countries are treated well is not ignorant, they're naive. Nobody can pretend they don't know what's going on, they just don't have it pushed in their face 24/7 so they can ignore it.
    No, most people are actually ignorant. Not very many people are educated on this. They do not know what the conditions are actually like and the suffering that is produced.

    Your point is irrelevant to the matter though. The man who inadvertently causes suffering is not comparable to the man who consciously refuses to help alleviate severe suffering of the masses.
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    (Original post by DaveParlour)
    I would disagree, it is evident every day that society is just a patchwork cover over this basic, primitive instinct.
    Well, when hundreds of thousands of people are all united by it, I would refer to it more as a strong, cohesive network within which human beings find it beneficial to operate.
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    (Original post by DaveParlour)
    Why did you delete your comment?

    Im curious to know why you find my opinion disturbing. Certainly it is rather detached from the mainstream human thought, but I believe that to be because people envelope themselves in society and do not care to take a step back and attempt to look at our condition with a degree of objectively.
    Honestly I did not want to instigate an argument.
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    (Original post by Salt_)
    That still doesn't provide any reason to why we should care. Why are you even in this thread if you're not going to contribute?
    Society functions on the basis that people will work cohesively together for the benefit of that very society. Helping others strengthens the bonds which make up that society, it ensures that when one member of that group needs help, others will help them because they know they will be helped if they require such assistance.
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    (Original post by jaggedspike)
    Honestly I did not want to instigate an argument.
    Tis not an argument? I would just like to discuss why you found it disturbing.

    Up to you.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    Well, when hundreds of thousands of people are all united by it, I would refer to it more as a strong, cohesive network within which human beings find it beneficial to operate.
    Patchwork was maybe the wrong term to use, I can't deny it has proved to be quite a strong network, but I challenge that it is still just a cover, designed to keep in check our instinct, and there are cracks, and our instinct is never far away, it just takes something to remove our care of social consequence for it to appear.
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    I don't really give a damn. Yeah, it's a terrible situation, but I have no connection to Haiti. I can't do empathy, never have been able to. Say what you will about it, but I can't really have an emotional response to something which in no conceivable way effects me.
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    (Original post by DentistGal)
    Without reading the other posts. You sound like an ignorant penis.
    The irony in that statement is quite amusing.
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    Neither the US or the UK are the great powers they once were (i.e the days of colonizing half the world up until the 80s-early 90s).

    We are on the decline, and China, India etc. are fast on the rise. We are losing political influence very rapidly and our economies are going down the drain. Get a ******* grip UK, let's keep this country on top of the world and not acting like little ******* pansies just to keep our "conscience" clear.

    We used to be a strong, brutal country, which is what you need to be on top of the world! Now China has become much more ruthless and calculating, we are losing!

    Sort it out UK, forget about Haiti, leave themselves to sort everything out. This whole Haiti story is a complete farce. Leave them to their own devices!
 
 
 
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