Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    ok, so we shouldn't care. But the "rationale" for empathy is so:

    - we evolved as such
    - it exists in numerous other species
    - it's part of our nature

    Trying to rationalise and say "but why?" doesn't make sense. I thought this was a student forum, not one for Asperger's syndrome or something (well the posts given here are borderline symptoms of it at the least).
    A post of yours that I agree with!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I see where you're coming from OP, however, I don't believe denying them aid is going to end their suffering. The Haitians are not going to die out, they will simply become poorer and even less prepared for events such as this. Providing aid may very well help them get back together, recover more quickly, and with that recovery manage to scrap up the means to prepare for the future.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Salt_)
    Haitians can't help us, so quid pro ro isn't a good reason to help them. Even so it's self interest, and that's not really something you can base a moral decision on.
    But if we can help them, which we can, but they can't help us, which they can't directly, but we still chose to help them, then that's not in self interst is it?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    i dont think it was lack of forseight that caused Haiti to be so devestated.
    I think it was more to do with lack of wealth.
    and wealth as little to do with strength or weakness
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    If governments don't help, they are criticized. You can just imagine the Conservative campaign adverts showing the devastation and pointing the finger at Labour...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The only reason Haiti is as poorly organised as it is is because of the French stripping it of all its resources when it was still a colony and using it as a major source of the slave trade which is why it is so overpopulated, and yet they give about half what the british have given?! when they're wealthier than us and more responsible.


    oh yeah some people are just generally decent and think its worth spending some cash to save lives other than our own.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Have you seriously thought this through? I have to believe this is an attempt to gain credit for thinking outside of the box. What are you trying to prove? The well being of others should be paramount. It is our responsibility as human beings. I can't understand why we consistently define ourself by geographical boundaries! If I were a Haitian, I'd be disappointed that those with all of the basic needs accounted for still only care about themselves.

    Count yourself incredibly lucky that you live in the U.K. By no means is it perfect, but what constitutes a natural disaster in our country would be labelled as bad weather in another. Most of the aid contributed benefits those who have suffered physical pain and, probably to a greater extent, psychological trauma. Although I've long known that some people lack altruism to a certain degree, attitudes of your ilk never cease to shock me.

    I'm guessing that you've never had many personal struggles. No enemies, no threats, no true hardships. Or it could be the opposite, and devastating events that have occurred in your life have resulted in a complete loss of empathy. Either way, I'm done playing amateur psychologist for now. You seem stubborn, so I don't intend to waste another sentence explaining my opposition to your remarks.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chucklefiend)
    I know some of you will slaughter me for questioning developed nations intervention in the Haiti disaster. However, there are important issues to be addressed and I refuse to reliquish my right to freedom of speech in the interest of political correctness. Please read the following with an open mind.

    It is my belief that nations should be left to sort out their own problems. I am against the war in Iraq, because it has nothing to do with us. If a nation is strong, it will thrive on its own, if it isn't it will die out and there will subsequently be less suffering in the world. Interfering in another nations business, only gives the people of that nation somebody to direct their anger at. If America and Britain had never carved up the middle east in the 19th century, we would not be dealing with the consequences i.e. terrorism, now.

    Already in Haiti, the deliverance of aid is causing violence and looting, as people fight to gain access to this aid. This violence and looting, would have happened anyway of course, but our presence there only inflames the situation further.

    A nation such as Japan prepares for such eventualities because they are an intelligent, resourceful and strong country. Haiti was poorly prepared for a scenario such as this, i.e. their health system was poor, education was poor and buildings were not designed to withstand earthquakes, despite the fact that the country is positioned precisely between two colliding tectonic plates. It is this kind of weakness and lack of foresight that would be extinguished, without mercy, in the natural world.

    By providing such charity, the nations of the world think themselves empathetic and magnanimous. In reality they simply build Haiti back up so they can fall again and again. By being merciless, nature is inadvertantly kind. Those who do not have what it takes to survive die, they do not survive, and therefore they do not suffer.

    Sometimes the humane thing to do is to let nature take its course.
    I guessed you would get slaughtered for this as I have been on other posts but I agree with most of what you are saying. I too am getting pretty sick of this being rammed down our throats and I even get angry when I see some people on television shouting "Where is our aid?" etc, as if it is clearly somebody else's responsibility to help them!

    The Darwinism you speak of should not just apply to Haiti but to most of the third world who are dependant on Europe, USA, China etc. Sure, people will say "Well we've made it worse" when talking about colonisation but the truth is we haven't! If you think of the amaount of killing and rape that went on pre-colonisation it's pretty clear we've left it better condition that we found it. People seem to have this view of the third world as a group of happy villages where humans and animals live in harmony etc etc but the reality was very different.

    Hopefully, lessons will be learned from this (such as don't build multi-story residential buildings out of corrigated iron on a fault line) but I seriously doubt it.

    If I lived in Haiti, I would do whatever I could do make it the 51st state of the USA. What good is independence when it brings poverty and a complete lack of security? Unfortunately, governments around the world need to be given some kind of incentive to help these people, otherwise it's just a piece on the news that get's boring enough to force people to send pitiful amounts of money!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    We should give a damn because we are a civilised country and we help others out in a proper way. Shame we couldn't do it for Iraq.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Peakey)
    But if we can help them, which we can, but they can't help us, which they can't directly, but we still chose to help them, then that's not in self interst is it?
    No, but that's still not a reason we ought to help them. You can't say that we SHOULD help them unless you have a reason to that doesn't rely on self interest and isn't based on a subjective emotional response, compassion.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Chucklefiend)
    I know some of you will slaughter me for questioning developed nations intervention in the Haiti disaster. However, there are important issues to be addressed and I refuse to reliquish my right to freedom of speech in the interest of political correctness. Please read the following with an open mind.

    It is my belief that nations should be left to sort out their own problems. I am against the war in Iraq, because it has nothing to do with us. If a nation is strong, it will thrive on its own, if it isn't it will die out and there will subsequently be less suffering in the world. Interfering in another nations business, only gives the people of that nation somebody to direct their anger at. If America and Britain had never carved up the middle east in the 19th century, we would not be dealing with the consequences i.e. terrorism, now.

    Already in Haiti, the deliverance of aid is causing violence and looting, as people fight to gain access to this aid. This violence and looting, would have happened anyway of course, but our presence there only inflames the situation further.

    A nation such as Japan prepares for such eventualities because they are an intelligent, resourceful and strong country. Haiti was poorly prepared for a scenario such as this, i.e. their health system was poor, education was poor and buildings were not designed to withstand earthquakes, despite the fact that the country is positioned precisely between two colliding tectonic plates. It is this kind of weakness and lack of foresight that would be extinguished, without mercy, in the natural world.

    By providing such charity, the nations of the world think themselves empathetic and magnanimous. In reality they simply build Haiti back up so they can fall again and again. By being merciless, nature is inadvertantly kind. Those who do not have what it takes to survive die, they do not survive, and therefore they do not suffer.

    Sometimes the humane thing to do is to let nature take its course.

    You forget some saliant points.

    Britain would not be where it is today without colonisation, we plundered other countries and used the stolen resources to fund our empires progression, we ****** up these countries and terrorism has very little to do with t the colonies, the only place we surely ****** in the middle east is palestine, we should never have let the jews in.

    America wouldn't exist without colonisation.

    Our influences including all the colonial powers ****** up these countries and haiti was fine until the french pulled out (were forced etc) because haiti relied on french [plantations which they couldn't sustain themselves.

    haiti is in a **** place, personally i think they should leave but no one wants them and they don't want to leave, because of colonial influence many poor countries are ******, especially the ones that were undeveloped when we took it over(there are a few exceptions).

    So you're first we should isolate ourselves point is stupid.

    Japan can afford to secure itself due to its wealth, japan hasn't had political termoil, natural disasters and other hinderances to growth recurring over and over again in recent history and recieved a lot of american aid after ww2 to help it rebuild.

    Haiti simply can't afford to feed its populace let alone buold earthquake proof building etc, they have no exports they recieve very little money and corruption, coups and other things prevent any of what they do have from being used well.

    The nations provide aid not to feel good about themselves but to appear kind to the rest of the world hoping that their donations will be remembers should they ever need aid - "a prince should appear fair when it suits him but be ruthless when he needs to be" (off top of my head may not be entirely accurate)

    The fact is it doesn't look good to let countless people die when you can help to mitigate it, our country wouldn't have survived without outside help so it is hypocritical to expect others too.


    Funnily enough i really don't care whether or not our country gives money to haiti but in my opinion your reasons for not providing aid are frankly pathetic and retarded, you could at least have commented on whether our country needs or deserves it more, baka.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    There'll come a time when your gonna need the help of others, and you best hope to God they dont have the same mind set as you do.
    The entire world gets by with the smaller people helping eachother out.
    What is wrong with you? Seriously ...
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I'm guessing, due to this thread having 14 pages, that this has already been mentioned; if it has, it's worth repeating again, as it's pretty much the crux of the matter.

    You help a nation because you can. You help another person because you can. Re-wind 70 years to WWII Allied Europe, who's getting pounded by Germany and is generally in an awful state. We turn to America to help, but they refuse, stating that they're strictly an isolationist nation, and that Europe's problems are its own. Would that be an amicable situation? Would the OP have preferred if America had stayed out of it, and we'd all be under the influence of Nazi Germany? No. Instead, FDR came up with the Lend-Lease Act. He also said that if your neighbour's house is on fire, you don't haggle over the price of your garden hose.

    There are too many things in the world we can't do. Why help Haiti? Because we can.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by neodymium)
    help other humans within my powers.
    i read it as "help other humans with my powers."

    made me lol

    we must all use our powers for good!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    When something as destructive as a natural disaster hits any poor country we should forget all politics and loyalties. When other humans are dying and suffering the rich should give to the poor.

    It always astounds me how quickly we all unite in horrible events like this.

    I gave £25 (my Monday night shift wage) to the appeal. When I was working that shift I felt happier about being at work than I have ever done for a long time. How anybody can sit at home with running water in a comfortable and secure house and not feel for those who are suffering elsewhere is beyond me. I know there is so much pain happening in the world every single day, but by giving that reasonable amount I felt I had done my bit. It makes little difference to us as individuals if we give £10 each, but it's a huge difference to them.

    Anybody who doesn't understand why we give to causes and appeals like these is an ignorant, horrible person. Giving to charity is a selfless act and one that a selfish person wouldn't understand.

    EDIT: If anybody says that people donate out of guilt then they are completely missing the point. I don't feel guilty for how much money I have. I accept the fact that there are people out there with a lot less money than me and I know there are people who have a hell of a lot more. The world is built that way and if you spend your life comparing yourself to others then you will always be unhappy. I gave £25 not out of guilt or the need to feel a sense of pride or self-worth, but because I wanted to help those who are in need and suffering in a disaster that was beyond their control.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I'm all up for a fight against political correctness, but theres a time to "fight the power"; this isn't one of them.I completely agree that society is carving some crazy path it wants us all to follow, but like it or not its done some things right. Asking us to step in, in this scenario, is a fine example of that.

    Stop trying to be the stray sheep.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The OP makes a very very good argument, and I do understand everything he is saying. If I could switch my emotion off then I may agree with you.

    However, this is not a theoretical situation and as I type this, people are suffering in ways I cannot even begin to imagine. I just can't sit by and do absolutely nothing. I don't believe my few pounds will help much and maybe is it a selfish act to relieve guilt but I can't sit back and feel perfectly comfortable when there is such a tragedy unfolding.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Meow7)
    The OP makes a very very good argument, and I do understand everything he is saying. If I could switch my emotion off then I may agree with you.

    However, this is not a theoretical situation and as I type this, people are suffering in ways I cannot even begin to imagine. I just can't sit by and do absolutely nothing. I don't believe my few pounds will help much and maybe is it a selfish act to relieve guilt but I can't sit back and feel perfectly comfortable when there is such a tragedy unfolding.
    Tragedies happen everyday - why are they somehow particularly deserving? Also, cash isn't what is needed. Military intervention to restore order and build some basic infrastructure is. If cash is offered it should be for birth control injections to restore the population to a liveable state (it was overpopulated at 3 million - now it's up to 9 million).
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Salt_)
    You keep saying we SHOULD. You fail to provide a reason why.

    You're basically saying that we SHOULD help that it's something EVERYBODY SHOULD do. You're not saying that there's any reason we should. And if there's no reason we should, then what's your problem with people like me who don't think we should? I'm not saying we shouldn't. Just that it's not imperative that we should.
    Because as I mentioned although we are all from different nationalities, countries, faiths and races that we all share one thing in common that is we are all human beings. There are many differences in this world that stand to divide man (and woman) in times of need these differences should be set aside to show human compassion which will be remembered and could possibly be returned sometime in the future.

    I don't actually have a problem with people like you, my post was infact pointing out that we are all different. Though the one thing that should unite us is our compassion, helping our fellow human beings in their time of need.

    Developed nations are in a privileged position that they can prepare and have the necessary skilled works, tools, supplies and technology to help their fellow countryman during natural disasters.

    Developing and third world nations often don't have this luxury with many struggling to have a functioning health and education system and combating basic life problems - poverty, hunger and disease.

    Without help many of the nations would decline into further poverty following natural disasters, like we saw with the boxing day tsunami a few years ago with help the communities can rebuild and regrow.

    I guess it depends how you look at it, yes developed nations will be focusing funds, supplies and personal to countries who will probably never be able to repay the cost but how can we as civilised, flourishing (at least more then they) nations stand by and do nothing.

    So to answer your question it's not imperative but as human beings we shouldn't let borders and other issues stop us from helping each other.

    :o: I don't often post in these big discussion so I realise my "argument" may not be as well informed as others but I think my point comes across.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I would gladly donate to one of our European neighbours, if the worst happened, at the drop of a hat.

    But to people in the Caribbean or Sichuan????
    pfff **** right off
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brexit voters: Do you stand by your vote?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.