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    (Original post by Rucklo)
    You do not understand this, your mind is clouded by human emotion and you do not see the cause of the problem.

    The problem will be they have a population they cannot sustain because we are saving people that should have died. This will keep them in poverty for far far longer
    I thought the case of problem was a natural disaster, the opponents to giving aid constantly forgetting why we are doing it in the first place. Haiti doesn't need a government enforced family planning program; they have high infant mortality rates, disease and a low life expectancy.

    You can argue that China enforced the one child policy; they also enforced the Second Five Year plan to industralise China that caused the Great Chinese Famine and killed 43 million people.
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    (Original post by Chucklefiend)
    I know some of you will slaughter me for questioning developed nations intervention in the Haiti disaster. However, there are important issues to be addressed and I refuse to reliquish my right to freedom of speech in the interest of political correctness. Please read the following with an open mind.

    It is my belief that nations should be left to sort out their own problems. I am against the war in Iraq, because it has nothing to do with us. If a nation is strong, it will thrive on its own, if it isn't it will die out and there will subsequently be less suffering in the world. Interfering in another nations business, only gives the people of that nation somebody to direct their anger at. If America and Britain had never carved up the middle east in the 19th century, we would not be dealing with the consequences i.e. terrorism, now.

    Already in Haiti, the deliverance of aid is causing violence and looting, as people fight to gain access to this aid. This violence and looting, would have happened anyway of course, but our presence there only inflames the situation further.

    A nation such as Japan prepares for such eventualities because they are an intelligent, resourceful and strong country. Haiti was poorly prepared for a scenario such as this, i.e. their health system was poor, education was poor and buildings were not designed to withstand earthquakes, despite the fact that the country is positioned precisely between two colliding tectonic plates. It is this kind of weakness and lack of foresight that would be extinguished, without mercy, in the natural world.

    By providing such charity, the nations of the world think themselves empathetic and magnanimous. In reality they simply build Haiti back up so they can fall again and again. By being merciless, nature is inadvertantly kind. Those who do not have what it takes to survive die, they do not survive, and therefore they do not suffer.

    Sometimes the humane thing to do is to let nature take its course.
    You seem very ignorant of the realities of life. You state that haiti is a developing country, then proceed to ask why they don't have healthcare, good building materials, education. Not everywhere gives you as sheltered an upbringing as you have enjoyed - reality is **** for most of the world.

    We do what we can by giving up our small amount of money (equating to getting the non-branded clothing rather than the branded one or something pathetic like that) so that they can be prevented from starving, suffocating under buildings, or being struck by disease (do you know how much suffering that it? of course not - you've never experienced anything close...) and to help them rebuild in a sustainable way so that this won't happen again (the last point will be limited, as people will stop giving money in like a week).
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    Websites keep asking me for money. Every time I order online it's getting rammed down my throat; "Add £2 to your order to make a donation to Haiti!". Hell, even my phone company are texting me asking me to help. I might've done to begin with but all of this justified begging is pissing me off.

    I'd rather just buy a laptop with my money now.
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    (Original post by Chucklefiend)
    I know some of you will slaughter me for questioning developed nations intervention in the Haiti disaster. However, there are important issues to be addressed and I refuse to reliquish my right to freedom of speech in the interest of political correctness. Please read the following with an open mind.

    It is my belief that nations should be left to sort out their own problems. I am against the war in Iraq, because it has nothing to do with us. If a nation is strong, it will thrive on its own, if it isn't it will die out and there will subsequently be less suffering in the world. Interfering in another nations business, only gives the people of that nation somebody to direct their anger at. If America and Britain had never carved up the middle east in the 19th century, we would not be dealing with the consequences i.e. terrorism, now.

    Already in Haiti, the deliverance of aid is causing violence and looting, as people fight to gain access to this aid. This violence and looting, would have happened anyway of course, but our presence there only inflames the situation further.

    A nation such as Japan prepares for such eventualities because they are an intelligent, resourceful and strong country. Haiti was poorly prepared for a scenario such as this, i.e. their health system was poor, education was poor and buildings were not designed to withstand earthquakes, despite the fact that the country is positioned precisely between two colliding tectonic plates. It is this kind of weakness and lack of foresight that would be extinguished, without mercy, in the natural world.

    By providing such charity, the nations of the world think themselves empathetic and magnanimous. In reality they simply build Haiti back up so they can fall again and again. By being merciless, nature is inadvertantly kind. Those who do not have what it takes to survive die, they do not survive, and therefore they do not suffer.

    Sometimes the humane thing to do is to let nature take its course.
    1. Do you have what it takes to survive a 100 ton wall crushing your skull?
    2. I don't think you have seen the full extent of what has happened
    3. I wish you were in Haiti last Tuesday
    4. You are an idiot, it's sad people like you deserve to live. DIE!
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    All of you who say we shouldn't care are scum.It's so easy to say that because of your selfish and comfortable lives fuelled by capitalism, but if something this tragic should happen to any of you, you would all be begging for help.Haitians only lived on £1.50 a day they already have little and now they have absolutely nothing. 450,000 people are estimated to be dead. That is some peoples whole worlds, whole families gone. It is a self-centred attitude which leads to poverty and you capitalists are enjoying the suffering of others as long as your own lives are comfortable.
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    What if you got beaten up in the street and no one will help you because its none of their business because they think it was your fault you got beaten up, the worst thing is it was unprovoked.

    Would you be happy lying there bloodied on the street whilst everyone just stares and pass by? Same concept

    This is the sad thing in this country, people whine about so little and cant care less about other people. The only way you will ever understand is if you were stripped of all your wealth here and put into the middle of a shanty town in a third world country. And if you say "oh but im in a first world country" then I've just made my point.
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    What I don't like is all the recent media campaigns that have suddenly sprung up "HELP HAITI NOW" and "The children in Haiti need YOUR help"

    I recently saw something on PayPal; if you bought something over £10 1.5% went to Haiti which is like 15p however the campaign was full screen ads, banners and so forth giving the impression that at least 50% would be going to Haiti.

    I understand the world of Business but I thought that was just shameful.
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    (Original post by DanielNewton)
    What I don't like is all the recent media campaigns that have suddenly sprung up "HELP HAITI NOW" and "The children in Haiti need YOUR help"

    I recently saw something on PayPal; if you bought something over £10 1.5% went to Haiti which is like 15p however the campaign was full screen ads, banners and so forth giving the impression that at least 50% would be going to Haiti.

    I understand the world of Business but I thought that was just shameful.
    tbh it is true, though
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    (Original post by Chucklefiend)
    I know some of you will slaughter me for questioning developed nations intervention in the Haiti disaster. However, there are important issues to be addressed and I refuse to reliquish my right to freedom of speech in the interest of political correctness. Please read the following with an open mind.

    It is my belief that nations should be left to sort out their own problems. I am against the war in Iraq, because it has nothing to do with us. If a nation is strong, it will thrive on its own, if it isn't it will die out and there will subsequently be less suffering in the world. Interfering in another nations business, only gives the people of that nation somebody to direct their anger at. If America and Britain had never carved up the middle east in the 19th century, we would not be dealing with the consequences i.e. terrorism, now.

    Already in Haiti, the deliverance of aid is causing violence and looting, as people fight to gain access to this aid. This violence and looting, would have happened anyway of course, but our presence there only inflames the situation further.

    A nation such as Japan prepares for such eventualities because they are an intelligent, resourceful and strong country. Haiti was poorly prepared for a scenario such as this, i.e. their health system was poor, education was poor and buildings were not designed to withstand earthquakes, despite the fact that the country is positioned precisely between two colliding tectonic plates. It is this kind of weakness and lack of foresight that would be extinguished, without mercy, in the natural world.

    By providing such charity, the nations of the world think themselves empathetic and magnanimous. In reality they simply build Haiti back up so they can fall again and again. By being merciless, nature is inadvertantly kind. Those who do not have what it takes to survive die, they do not survive, and therefore they do not suffer.

    Sometimes the humane thing to do is to let nature take its course.
    I agree completely. It's natural selection.
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    (Original post by Yuppie20)
    tbh it is true, though
    I think you misunderstood my post; the specific campaigns I mentioned are ripping people off shockingly; for instance you give £10 and they take 70% administrative fee, i.e. your donation of £10 once/if it reaches its destination is £3.

    Though its only a matter of time before the endless monotonous TV adverts start jumping on the bandwagon…

    I’m not saying we shouldn’t support them, I’m saying we should setup a genuine charity to donate money too instead of going through these rip off merchants.
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    Because we care
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    It's about being a fellow human, helping each other out. What's the difference between you and them? You've just got ur ass full of gold cos u got born in this country. What if you were born there, and you were in that situation? That's the thing, this could just as easily been you, and that's why we have to help out. I expect you think that if half the countries in the world suddenly bombed the **** out of England (maybe because they're reacting to some people's ignorance when it comes to helping out during disasters like this..?) you would expect some support from other countries!

    If you walked past a scene of accident here in England, would you do anything? If your family and friends were in Haiti, would you think different?
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    (Original post by DanielNewton)
    I think you misunderstood my post; the specific campaigns I mentioned are ripping people off shockingly; for instance you give £10 and they take 70% administrative fee, i.e. your donation of £10 once/if it reaches its destination is £3.

    Though its only a matter of time before the endless monotonous TV adverts start jumping on the bandwagon…

    I’m not saying we shouldn’t support them, I’m saying we should setup a genuine charity to donate money too instead of going through these rip off merchants.
    Sources!?!

    I donated 2 pounds via Orange, and if I find out any of that hasn't gone in the presumed direction I'm going to inflict shotgun assisted justice!
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    You don't have to give a damn if you don't want to.
    But if we want to, we can.
    And I do.
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    (Original post by Chucklefiend)
    I know some of you will slaughter me for questioning developed nations intervention in the Haiti disaster. However, there are important issues to be addressed and I refuse to reliquish my right to freedom of speech in the interest of political correctness. Please read the following with an open mind.

    It is my belief that nations should be left to sort out their own problems. I am against the war in Iraq, because it has nothing to do with us. If a nation is strong, it will thrive on its own, if it isn't it will die out and there will subsequently be less suffering in the world. Interfering in another nations business, only gives the people of that nation somebody to direct their anger at. If America and Britain had never carved up the middle east in the 19th century, we would not be dealing with the consequences i.e. terrorism, now.

    Already in Haiti, the deliverance of aid is causing violence and looting, as people fight to gain access to this aid. This violence and looting, would have happened anyway of course, but our presence there only inflames the situation further.

    A nation such as Japan prepares for such eventualities because they are an intelligent, resourceful and strong country. Haiti was poorly prepared for a scenario such as this, i.e. their health system was poor, education was poor and buildings were not designed to withstand earthquakes, despite the fact that the country is positioned precisely between two colliding tectonic plates. It is this kind of weakness and lack of foresight that would be extinguished, without mercy, in the natural world.

    By providing such charity, the nations of the world think themselves empathetic and magnanimous. In reality they simply build Haiti back up so they can fall again and again. By being merciless, nature is inadvertantly kind. Those who do not have what it takes to survive die, they do not survive, and therefore they do not suffer.

    Sometimes the humane thing to do is to let nature take its course.
    Put yourself in their position. What would you if you were a Haitian right now, with no food or water, half of your family if not all perished by the earthquake. Don't forget this is one of the poorest countries in the world, surely the UK can spare a few millions which can save the lives of hundreds of human beings.
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    (Original post by Logan)
    This is the sad thing in this country, people whine about so little and cant care less about other people. The only way you will ever understand is if you were stripped of all your wealth here and put into the middle of a shanty town in a third world country. And if you say "oh but im in a first world country" then I've just made my point.
    But that can't be helped.

    I think the OPs point is that in every other species in the world, each organism only cares about their own survival. Some are born with a greater chance of living, some with less. This is just good/bad luck on their part. You could write a book on the argument of whether we are animals or not. The point still stands...

    What animals don't do, is help other organisms to survive. Even for members of their own species, they see their death as an advantage, a way of reducing competition, and enhancing the chances of their own survival.

    This sounds completely wrong, immoral, and everything else when put in a human context. But why is it wrong? Why is it that our methods of survival have become so detached from every other species on this planet?
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    Thumbed over the last 4 pages and the general idea is people are still saying that we SHOULD care.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't, I'm not saying it's a bad thing to help. I'm saying that there's no reason that we SHOULD. There's no reason that actually means helping them is imperative, rather than a choice.

    If someone falls over, it's not your duty, not something you ought to do, to help them up.
    If someone steals something from someone else, it's not your duty to get it back.
    If a car accident happens, it's not your duty to rescue them from the car accident.
    Someone needs a kidney, it's not your duty to give them the kidney.

    Do you see what I'm saying now? It's not that we shouldn't help, it's that there's no reason that we should. So far I've seen very few 'reasons' to why we should, which are basically all the same reason. Compassion.

    Now alls good on the surface, human compassion is something we can't control, it's not our choice. But that doesn't make it a reason that we should help. It makes it a reason that we might want to help. The problem is all the people who want to help are confusing it with that we SHOULD help and then shouting at people like me, and because I can see Gemma !'s post, her too, who don't want to help.

    The other reason I really just want to comment on was a few pages back. It basically said that we should help other countries, because if it happens to us and we don't help anyone, we wont get any help back. Haiti hasn't done a damned thing for us as far as I'm aware. Nor could it possibly do a damned thing for us. So by your own logic, we shouldn't be helping them.


    (Also, please stop saying all humans are equal, we're not. Some are born greater than others some are born weaker.)
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    (Original post by KiiNGofLONDON)
    A huge economy built on negligible labour costs and zero human rights is hardly a success story.

    Care to answer my questions?
    Erm they pay what they can, its far better conditions than Africa.
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    (Original post by vroom9)
    I thought the case of problem was a natural disaster, the opponents to giving aid constantly forgetting why we are doing it in the first place. Haiti doesn't need a government enforced family planning program; they have high infant mortality rates, disease and a low life expectancy.

    You can argue that China enforced the one child policy; they also enforced the Second Five Year plan to industralise China that caused the Great Chinese Famine and killed 43 million people.
    Yes and you wonder why? Because they have too high a population, your proving my point.
 
 
 
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