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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    i think its just giving my fingerprints that weirds me out... what if later down the line i decide to turn to a life of crime?? They will catch me straight away! lol

    Exactly that's the brilliance of it


    1. Any criminal with half a brain doesn't get caught out by finger prints...

    2. catching the dumb ones is easier less idiots
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    It's not the media, its the government. And you've just proved my point exactly - they are costly, they are risky and they are an invasion of privacy - they also offer no obvious benefits to the individual - yet thousands of people sign up for them. If that isn't moronic, I don't know what is.
    No-one listens to the government, everyone listens to the media.
    If we were brainwashed by anyone, it would be the media.

    And, sorry, but how does quoting the media's stance on this issue prove the point?!
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    (Original post by Flav)
    Exactly that's the brilliance of it


    1. Any criminal with half a brain doesn't get caught out by finger prints...

    2. catching the dumb ones is easier less idiots
    lol... i heard there is something like 20000 crimes unsolved where they have fingerprints but no match. maybe some of them are mine??! :eek:
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    I dont see the big issue with the privacy thing.. Im only considering it because of convenience as i travel round europe a fair bit and also go out in town a lot (and i am lucky enough to still get asked for ID sometimes!).
    I don't really see what makes it any more convenient than a passport, besides it being marginally smaller. And at least if I lose my passport, I don't have to worry about losing biometric data as well. As for ID, I'd say driving liscense was just as easy and cheaper to replace (and much less hassle) than one of these cards anyway.

    Personally i think if they made everyone have one - especially people who come from abroad - then at least we would have some idea of who actually lives here...?
    People who come here from abroad legitimately have already used passports to get here, so if we can't keep track of passports, what makes you think these cards would be any different? As for people who come here illegitimately presumely they will continue to do so regardless of whether we have ID cards or not.
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    (Original post by placenta medicae talpae)
    No-one listens to the government, everyone listens to the media.
    If we were brainwashed by anyone, it would be the media.

    And, sorry, but how does quoting the media's stance on this issue prove the point?!
    Right, no-one listens to the government - that would be why every in the streets are running riot in anarchy, rather than obeying the laws of the government... oh wait. No one listens to the government, that'd be why no-one pays their taxes... oh wait, they all do that to. People in this country do exactly what the government tells them to. The media occasionally criticsing the government simply gives the impression of rebellion.

    You proved the point by highlighting the fact that people are acting like sheep with regard to ID cards, signing up for them because the governement says they should, rather than for any individual gain (and indeed not only do they not gain anything, they even have to give up their own time and money!).
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    I don't really see what makes it any more convenient than a passport, besides it being marginally smaller. And at least if I lose my passport, I don't have to worry about losing biometric data as well. As for ID, I'd say driving liscense was just as easy and cheaper to replace (and much less hassle) than one of these cards anyway.


    People who come here from abroad legitimately have already used passports to get here, so if we can't keep track of passports, what makes you think these cards would be any different? As for people who come here illegitimately presumely they will continue to do so regardless of whether we have ID cards or not.
    If you lose it and someone finds it then they will not be able to get your details. Actually, the main benefit for the ID side is that many shops, bars etc round here have installed fingerprint scanners so it means that you dont have to carry your ID in town, you just scan you finger when you go in and then it confirms you are old enough. If anything, surely that is safer than what they do at them moment - which is scanning your passport/driving license as you go in!!?

    Regarding the immigrants, if everyone had one then it would be much more difficult to do everyday things unless you lived here legally. For example, if you needed one to get on a train or to go in a bar etc, then doing everyday things would be more difficult. As far as i am aware, we do not currently scan passports and we supposedly have no idea how many EU foreign nationals live here! The ID scheme will give us that information.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Right, no-one listens to the government - that would be why every in the streets are running riot in anarchy, rather than obeying the laws of the government... oh wait. No one listens to the government, that'd be why no-one pays their taxes... oh wait, they all do that to. People in this country do exactly what the government tells them to. The media occasionally criticsing the government simply gives the impression of rebellion.

    You proved the point by highlighting the fact that people are acting like sheep with regard to ID cards, signing up for them because the governement says they should, rather than for any individual gain (and indeed not only do they not gain anything, they even have to give up their own time and money!).
    Oh, okay. :nodots:
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Right, no-one listens to the government - that would be why every in the streets are running riot in anarchy, rather than obeying the laws of the government... oh wait. No one listens to the government, that'd be why no-one pays their taxes... oh wait, they all do that to. People in this country do exactly what the government tells them to. The media occasionally criticsing the government simply gives the impression of rebellion.

    You proved the point by highlighting the fact that people are acting like sheep with regard to ID cards, signing up for them because the governement says they should, rather than for any individual gain (and indeed not only do they not gain anything, they even have to give up their own time and money!).
    That is not why i am considering it. Also, people only pay their taxes because of the repercussions if you dont. People tend to be more heavily influenced by media than the government and they make decisions based on the PERCEIVED personal gain. After all... how do the government get their messages across to us? How were you made aware of the ID scheme? was it not by the media?
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    if you needed one to get on a train
    You actually want a country where you need ID just to get on a train?
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    As for ID, I'd say driving liscense was just as easy and cheaper to replace (and much less hassle) than one of these cards anyway
    What about people who don't have a driving licence? I don't have one and don't intend to get one until I've finished uni.
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    (Original post by electriic_ink)
    What about people who don't have a driving licence? I don't have one and don't intend to get one until I've finished uni.
    Even if you don't intend on driving, I would have thought a provisional liscense is much more attractive than one of these. It's marginally more expensive but doesn't require you to travel to a city and have your privacy invaded by way of fingerprints taken, etc, you simply send off the form and its done.
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    If you lose it and someone finds it then they will not be able to get your details. Actually, the main benefit for the ID side is that many shops, bars etc round here have installed fingerprint scanners so it means that you dont have to carry your ID in town, you just scan you finger when you go in and then it confirms you are old enough. If anything, surely that is safer than what they do at them moment - which is scanning your passport/driving license as you go in!!?
    Never in my life have I been to a club/bar where they've scanned my driving liscense to get in, I don't know what clubs you go to but round here they have these people called 'bouncers' who simply check you have valid ID. Old fashioned I know :rolleyes:

    Regarding the immigrants, if everyone had one then it would be much more difficult to do everyday things unless you lived here legally. For example, if you needed one to get on a train or to go in a bar etc, then doing everyday things would be more difficult. As far as i am aware, we do not currently scan passports and we supposedly have no idea how many EU foreign nationals live here! The ID scheme will give us that information.
    I'd much rather live in a country with a few immigrants than one in which I can't get on a bloody train without an ID. What a horrific idea.
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    (Original post by gm15)
    You actually want a country where you need ID just to get on a train?
    Actually yes. Once i finish my doctorate, i am wanting to move to the USA and you need ID to get on a train there. They dont have a problem with it as it is just normal practice.

    Once people got used to it then they would not care... you dont moan that you need ID on internal UK flights do you??
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    That is not why i am considering it. Also, people only pay their taxes because of the repercussions if you dont. People tend to be more heavily influenced by media than the government and they make decisions based on the PERCEIVED personal gain. After all... how do the government get their messages across to us? How were you made aware of the ID scheme? was it not by the media?
    You need to follow your own reasoning through. The media is a tool of the government to get their messages across to us (as you say yourself). The government want us to have ID cards. You go and buy an ID card. You do what the government tells you.

    Out of interest, have you ever read Orwell's 1984?
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    Actually yes. Once i finish my doctorate, i am wanting to move to the USA and you need ID to get on a train there. They dont have a problem with it as it is just normal practice.
    Lets apply that logic to another situation.

    It's just like if you start rounding up jews and putting them in concentration camps. At first people complain but after a while they don't have a problem with it as it is just normal practice.

    Surely you can see the fallacy in this way of thinking. Just because people become accustomed to something, does not mean it is right or good.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Never in my life have I been to a club/bar where they've scanned my driving liscense to get in, I don't know what clubs you go to but round here they have these people called 'bouncers' who simply check you have valid ID. Old fashioned I know :rolleyes:
    Where do you live? Most places here (London) scan your driving license when you enter, and a lot of students unions I've visited do too, as well as clubs in my tiny home town. It's pretty standard procedure most places I've ever been, I'm surprised you've never come across it.
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    (Original post by Lizia)
    Where do you live? Most places here (London) scan your driving license when you enter, and a lot of students unions I've visited do too, as well as clubs in my tiny home town. It's pretty standard procedure most places I've ever been, I'm surprised you've never come across it.
    I usually go out in Oxford or Reading. Tbh I find the idea a little worrying. How long will it be till we can't get into a supermarket to buy food without holding a valid ID?
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Never in my life have I been to a club/bar where they've scanned my driving liscense to get in, I don't know what clubs you go to but round here they have these people called 'bouncers' who simply check you have valid ID. Old fashioned I know :rolleyes:


    I'd much rather live in a country with a few immigrants than one in which I can't get on a bloody train without an ID. What a horrific idea.
    Perhaps it is as a result of the ID scheme being introduced. In the shops they have fingerprint scanners which are voluntary. The clubs which scan ID have normally had previous trouble with fights or under-age people and scan the id so they can see who is going in and out and also check the name/photo against a database of people who are barred. It is part of a scheme that says if you are barred from one pub you are barred from all of them. It doesnt really bother be to be honest. I would rather be in a safer club with over 18s in than a rough pub with young d**kheads causing trouble!
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    I usually go out in Oxford or Reading. Tbh I find the idea a little worrying. How long will it be till we can't get into a supermarket to buy food without holding a valid ID?
    Well from your posts in other topics, it seems you haven't been old enough to go out for very long, so I'm sure you'll come across these things soon. Quite a few bars in Oxford do it, and if you come to London for university you will certainly see it almost everywhere.

    Why is it worrying? If anything, them reading your card should be more of a concern, since it contains a lot of information about you. Surely you'd rather they quickly ran it through a machine to prove its validity, than stood there reading your name, address, date of birth and myriad other personal details?
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    Actually yes. Once i finish my doctorate, i am wanting to move to the USA and you need ID to get on a train there. They dont have a problem with it as it is just normal practice.

    Once people got used to it then they would not care... you dont moan that you need ID on internal UK flights do you??
    Land of the free.



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