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Should I get an identity card?? watch

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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    I live in the north-west which means I am now eligible to apply for a new UK Identity Card. While I have heard lots of people in the media making out it is a bad thing and our privacy is at risk, I am failing to see the reasons why i should not get one?

    If I get one, it means I am able to travel around Europe without taking my passport. Should I lose the card, I can still travel with my passport until a new card arrives. It also means I dont have to carry my driving license everywhere as the new ID cards are an acceptable form of ID when out in town.

    Are there any other positive or negative reasons why I should/shouldn't get one? Your thoughts are appreciated...
    read some stuff on the no2id website (i think thats what its called) for some arguments against it.

    Also, when you are out in town, the security is going to look at you a bit funny because they won't have seen it before or won't see it often.

    I'm against it personally, but don't have the time to list all the reasons.
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    (Original post by Lizia)
    Well from your posts in other topics, it seems you haven't been old enough to go out for very long, so I'm sure you'll come across these things soon.
    Haha are you stalking me?

    Quite a few bars in Oxford do it, and if you come to London for university you will certainly see it almost everywhere. Why is it worrying? If anything, them reading your card should be more of a concern, since it contains a lot of information about you. Surely you'd rather they quickly ran it through a machine to prove its validity, than stood there reading your name, address, date of birth and myriad other personal details?
    It's not the technology being used at clubs which is worrying in itself, but rather the potential for function creep.
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    I live in the North West too, and I hadn't heard that we could get them yet! I certainly will be getting one! I hate taking my driver's license out with me incase I lose it when I'm in town!
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    I usually go out in Oxford or Reading. Tbh I find the idea a little worrying. How long will it be till we can't get into a supermarket to buy food without holding a valid ID?
    Actually, this is now very common in most developed countries for purchases over a certain amount. Again, I dont see a problem with this.

    You need to follow your own reasoning through. The media is a tool of the government to get their messages across to us (as you say yourself). The government want us to have ID cards. You go and buy an ID card. You do what the government tells you.

    Out of interest, have you ever read Orwell's 1984?
    The point i was getting at is that people tend to act in their own best interest. They listen to the media, talk to friends and use their own initiative (sometimes) and then decide based on personal pros and cons...

    I have read 1984 and whilst it is a good book, i think you cannot just compare them accurately. For starters, 1984 does not take into consideration the number of legal immigrants coming to the UK and having a significant negative effect on many communities. Many of these effects can be addressed as a result of the data that comes from the cards.

    Also, I think there are too many things at the moment that require different forms of documentation... it is annoying. Whilst i personally have no problem in giving ID across for things, it is annoying that there is no one form of ID. Surely in todays world we should be able to travel, drive, by alcohol, work etc etc with just one ID card rather than multiple??

    For me personally, i see the potential for things to get better with this and i value this more than my absolute privacy. You are not wrong in your opinion... it is perfectly valid! I just disagree.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Haha are you stalking me?
    Not, but I was confused how you'd "never in your life" seen a card scanning machine. When I find out "never in your life" presumably means maybe six months, it becomes understandable :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Gemma :)!)
    I live in the North West too, and I hadn't heard that we could get them yet! I certainly will be getting one! I hate taking my driver's license out with me incase I lose it when I'm in town!
    Yeah you can get one here...

    http://idsmart.direct.gov.uk/index.html
    :woo:
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    (Original post by Lizia)
    Not, but I was confused how you'd "never in your life" seen a card scanning machine. When I find out "never in your life" presumably means maybe six months, it becomes understandable :rolleyes:
    Ha, no doubt you in your infinite worldly experience are in a much better position to comment on such matters than me :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    Yeah you can get one here...

    http://idsmart.direct.gov.uk/index.html
    :woo:

    Thank youu x
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    Actually, this is now very common in most developed countries for purchases over a certain amount. Again, I dont see a problem with this.
    The problem I see is that is simply too much power in the hands of the government and people that control the cards. You never know who may be in power in 10 years time.

    The point i was getting at is that people tend to act in their own best interest. They listen to the media, talk to friends and use their own initiative (sometimes) and then decide based on personal pros and cons...

    I have read 1984 and whilst it is a good book, i think you cannot just compare them accurately. For starters, 1984 does not take into consideration the number of legal immigrants coming to the UK and having a significant negative effect on many communities. Many of these effects can be addressed as a result of the data that comes from the cards.

    Also, I think there are too many things at the moment that require different forms of documentation... it is annoying. Whilst i personally have no problem in giving ID across for things, it is annoying that there is no one form of ID. Surely in todays world we should be able to travel, drive, by alcohol, work etc etc with just one ID card rather than multiple??
    The only 2 IDs I ever use are my passport (and only for going abroad) and my driving liscense. If I wanted to carry carry around my passport everywhere I would probably not even need to use the driving liscence (except for driving obviously).

    As for Immigrants, if they're here legally, working and contributing to the economy, thats good enough for me.

    And as for comparing our society to 1984, we aren't there yet but it's exactly where we're heading. A better example might be to look at how ID cards have actually been employed throughout history, eg. in Nazi Germany. If you have the time I suggest you check out the film 'Taking Liberties': http://www.noliberties.com/
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    The problem I see is that is simply too much power in the hands of the government and people that control the cards. You never know who may be in power in 10 years time.


    The only 2 IDs I ever use are my passport (and only for going abroad) and my driving liscense. If I wanted to carry carry around my passport everywhere I would probably not even need to use the driving liscence (except for driving obviously).

    As for Immigrants, if they're here legally, working and contributing to the economy, thats good enough for me.

    And as for comparing our society to 1984, we aren't there yet but it's exactly where we're heading. A better example might be to look at how ID cards have actually been employed throughout history, eg. in Nazi Germany. If you have the time I suggest you check out the film 'Taking Liberties': http://www.noliberties.com/
    Regarding the immigrant situation, you must not live in an area that is negatively affected by this. In some towns (peterborough is an example), there is such a large quantity of eastern european immigrants that british children cannot go to nearby schools as they are full. Many schools cannot teach properly due to the high proportion of non-english speaking pupils. There is a huge shortage of housing in these areas, immigrants are taking all the cheaper housing and pricing locals out of the area as they are willing to sleep 9-10 people in a 3 bedroom house! This causes problems with rubbish and streets are often found covered in rubbish that the council wont collect.

    There are many more problems with this and the ID card scheme is an attempt for the government to learn where these people are living, what they are doing and whether or not they are still even in the country. Once they know this, they can allocate funds to councils to cope with this and probably try to recoup further funds from the EU to help. The estimated number of eastern european immigrants that were expected to arrive here was about 60,000. In the same period, it is believed that over 600,000 have actually arrived but because we have no official record of this, the budgeted money to cope with this is now 10x less than it should be.
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    (Original post by Gemma :)!)
    Thank youu x
    No probs.... you gonna get one??
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    Technically all you need to travel in Europe is some form of identity, but in practice you'll probably be ridiculously delayed at border checks if you don't bring a passport with you.

    As for card scanning machines, I've never seen one despite being 20 and a regular club-goer. So clearly they're only used in London and parts of Oxford. To be honest the idea of a club having digitised access to that kind of information is more worrying than the government having my biometric details, but I'm uncomfortable with both.
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    I don't really understand why people don't like the idea? Invasion of privacy - how...? You're willingly giving them the details...
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    Technically all you need to travel in Europe is some form of identity, but in practice you'll probably be ridiculously delayed at border checks if you don't bring a passport with you.
    I think you are referring to the Schengen Agreement which meant people in the EU could travel across state borders without needing a passport. Britain has not fully participated this agreement due to its lack of land borders. It is still a legal requirement to have a passport (or now also the ID card) to travel in and out of the UK. Once in a member state that subscribes to the agreement, you can travel to another member state without a passport.

    I am almost certain that is correct... please correct me if i am wrong!?
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    Technically all you need to travel in Europe is some form of identity, but in practice you'll probably be ridiculously delayed at border checks if you don't bring a passport with you.

    As for card scanning machines, I've never seen one despite being 20 and a regular club-goer. So clearly they're only used in London and parts of Oxford. To be honest the idea of a club having digitised access to that kind of information is more worrying than the government having my biometric details, but I'm uncomfortable with both.
    Card scanning machines are becoming very popular round my way, all the chain pubs in town SE London scan them and a lot of the clubs in central do too. There's a bar/club in Croydon that fingerprint scans then it brings up your picture, DOB and if you've been barred - now that's scary.

    I have noticed that it tends to be places that have had trouble that bring in these machines, first bar I saw it in had recently had a stabbing happen outside and the second was a walkabout that had been raided for drugs not long before. Reckon we'll see them in all chain pubs/ big clubs before too long all over the country..
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    As for card scanning machines, I've never seen one despite being 20 and a regular club-goer. So clearly they're only used in London and parts of Oxford. To be honest the idea of a club having digitised access to that kind of information is more worrying than the government having my biometric details, but I'm uncomfortable with both.
    Please see my previous posts on this for my detailed opinion. I live in Blackpool and it is quite common here. It is a good thing... violence inside bars and clubs as well as underage drinking has been cut significantly here! The new fingerprint idea means they can check all of this without actually getting hold of any of your details which seems safer to me??
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    (Original post by mattyjonesuk)
    I think you are referring to the Schengen Agreement which meant people in the EU could travel across state borders without needing a passport. Britain has not fully participated this agreement due to its lack of land borders. It is still a legal requirement to have a passport (or now also the ID card) to travel in and out of the UK. Once in a member state that subscribes to the agreement, you can travel to another member state without a passport.

    I am almost certain that is correct... please correct me if i am wrong!?
    I was under the impression that a driving license would do the job if you were a UK/EU citizen, but the UK Border Agency says otherwise.
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    I was under the impression that a driving license would do the job if you were a UK/EU citizen, but the UK Border Agency says otherwise.
    I believe it is just EEC/EU identity cards and passports for entering the UK. You can probably legally leave the UK without a passport if you are staying in europe but practically it would be stupid for them to allow you to as you would not be able to return and if you were not a UK national then you should have a passport from when you entered...
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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    I was under the impression that a driving license would do the job if you were a UK/EU citizen, but the UK Border Agency says otherwise.
    I'm pretty sure you can travel UK to Ireland without passport but have always been under the impression you need one for mainland EU..
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    (Original post by jk1986)
    I'm pretty sure you can travel UK to Ireland without passport but have always been under the impression you need one for mainland EU..
    That is correct. We have an agreement with Ireland which means we can travel without a passport. You might struggle to get on a flight without one though, but you can certainly travel by car from northern ireland.
 
 
 
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