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    (Original post by CherryCherryBoomBoom)
    I was just wondering this when I was browsing a few videos on youtube, and I wanted to see what TSR's opinions are. I admit I have said it a few times myself, just by picking it up from other people. I'm not too sure whether it's really offensive, since the word "gay" originally had a different meaning anyway (happy), but then going from describing homosexual people to saying something is lame or stupid, might be offensive. I really don't know. Do gay people (or even straight people) really find it offensive? Or is it just nothing? Discuss.

    Just a couple of people's opinions, though they have low ratings so I guess a lot of YouTube users disagree with them:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVicCD8FmMs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdgpg...eature=related
    I have two close friends who are lesbians (don't know why; I don't question it), and one of them says "that's gay" all the time and other doesn't seem to care. Although personally I don't say it as I'm not gay, just like you don't say nigg3r unless you're black.
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    this thread is gay
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    Yes.
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    (Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
    There is no reason to do it and it is offensive.

    The reasons "that's so gay" is used is nothing to do with the original meaning of gay (happy). It is because being gay has historically been a pretty lamentable state of affairs. It wasn't a good thing to be gay, so the parallel between being gay and something being pretty rubbish is drawn.

    It is a direct and negative reference to homosexuality, whatever people might say about it being "just a turn of phrase" and such.

    If people regularly said "that's so black" when they meant "I don't like that" or "that's pretty rubbish", would it be OK?

    There is PC gone mad and then there is just being a decent human being and not using phrases with an explicitly offensive history or meaning, however innocently intended you might be.

    However, I'm not going to get angry if someone uses it. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone engaged their brain and didn't use offensive language but as long as I know someone isn't homophobic, I'm not going to get pissed off. Heck, I say "retard" and "*******" all the time . . . bad Schmokie.
    So when Chris Rock said "I love black people but i hate *******" is this bad?

    When he says:
    " You can't have anything valuable in your house. ******* will break in and take it all. You can't do anything without some ignorant-ass ******* ******* it up."

    This shows how language has changed.

    Unless you are suggesting that Chris Rock hates black people.

    This will confuse you:
    " I am tired of *******. I wish they would let me join the Ku Klux Klan. I'd do a drive-by from LA to Brooklyn." - Chris Rock (a black guy)

    EDIT: the word asterixed out is the N word in case you didn't guess
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    (Original post by HyperGiant)
    How did it become obsolete though?

    Did everyone one day decide. Right guys, ******* no longer means child born out of wedlock, it now means a guy who is a bit of ****.

    No It happened because at first being a ******* was seen as a bad thing. Then it caught on, and eventually it stopped meaning out of wedlock.

    The same thing has happened to gay, no one uses it to mean happy any more.

    And now the same thing is happening, except now gay means bad.


    language is constantly changing. Go with the flow because there is nothing wrong with it.
    No, language isn't static, but that doesn't mean that language can do no wrong. You're acting like language is uneqivocally a force for good- well, this isn't the case. You're ignoring why and how language changes, and what the implications of this is. People use the word 'gay' to mean something bad because of the attitude that homosexuality is wrong. You can talk about fluidity of language or whatever but that's the long and short of it, and the impact of this is that homophobia is trivialised.

    You can say 'this is just what happens with language'- well, no, it doesn't have to be. Take some responsibility for the language you use. To me, and to millions of other people, that is not what 'gay' means, and it's an offensive way of using it. We choose not to use the word in that way. Language isn't just about change, it's about choice, and about realising you're responsible for the way you use language, and the implications of it.
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    (Original post by HyperGiant)
    How did it become obsolete though?

    Did everyone one day decide. Right guys, ******* no longer means child born out of wedlock, it now means a guy who is a bit of ****.

    No It happened because at first being a ******* was seen as a bad thing. Then it caught on, and eventually it stopped meaning out of wedlock.

    The same thing has happened to gay, no one uses it to mean happy any more.

    And now the same thing is happening, except now gay means bad.


    language is constantly changing. Go with the flow because there is nothing wrong with it.
    The main use of the word gay is to mean homosexual. So to use the secondary meaning of crap is offensive regardless of the natural flow of language...
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    (Original post by Pheylan)
    it's not really homophobia any more, just an expression
    Exactly. Like how atheists say "Oh my God"
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Until "gay" no longer means homosexual and homophobia no longer exists, it'll be offensive. Language and society change, yes, but it hasn't happened yet with this word. "Gay" is no longer used to mean happy and "*******" is no longer used to mean illegitimate child. Those comparisons don't work.
    Umm, yeah it is. Take William the *******; no one is calling him 'the *******' because he was a **** (although he certainly was that aswell). I wouldn't bat an eyelid if someone said 'Leonardo DaVinci was a *******', whether the word is pejorative or not is highly context-dependant.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    It is homophobic to use it in a negative way.
    It's not homophobic without intent.
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    (Original post by tony_ron)
    As a gay person, I can tell you that it is offensive but that you learn to live with it.

    The argument that it doesn't mean homosexual is flawed. It came to be used as meaning bad, stupid, distasteful etc because those were perspectives on homosexuality. It still quite clear today that that is where its origins lie.
    Do you really think the people who say it have any knowledge of where it came from? The majority of people who say it have no idea where it came from, and do not mean it in that way at all.

    I still stand by that it shouldn't be said, but there is no need for anybody to be up in arms about it. And it really can't be compared to rasist slurs because there is no way they aren't supposed to be rasist slurs. Where at least with 'that's so gay' the person saying it really has no idea what they are on about or why they are saying it - except that their mates say it.
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    (Original post by tehsponge)
    Exactly. Like how atheists say "Oh my God"
    We don't say that :hmpf:
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    (Original post by Blátönn)
    Umm, yeah it is. Take William the *******; no one is calling him 'the *******' because he was a **** (although he certainly was that aswell). I wouldn't bat an eyelid if someone said 'Leonardo DaVinci was a *******', whether the word is pejorative or not is highly context-dependant.
    Point is, it's no longer really in general use and on top of that being an illegitimate child is no longer viewed as something terrible. Until "gay" is no longer really used to mean homosexual and homosexuality isn't seen as bad, it will not be in anywhere near the same situation as the word "*******".

    (Original post by tehsponge)
    It's not homophobic without intent.
    If someone doesn't know the meaning of it, then okay. If they do they are perpetuating it and implying that the feelings of gay people aren't important, and whether or not they would literally say "I hate gays," they are doing something homophobic.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    We don't say that :hmpf:
    I do. And I'm an atheist. And I know loads of other atheists that do.
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    It's become divorced from it's previous meaning.

    When people say "that's gay" they don't mean "homosexual", any more than someone who says "my best friend is gay" means that he is "happy".

    It's on a par with the word "moron" - which was originally a medical term, then used as an insult, but has now become completely inoffensive.

    At the end of the day, language is a democracy; if the people who say the word don't mean it offensively, and the vast majority of people who here it don't find it offensive, then it isn't offensive. Fullstop.
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    I say it all the time. I've had various straight people get "offended" by it. Just like the white people who get offended when I say things like "paki".

    Anyone who gets angry about it should **** off and stop being so upsettable.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Until "gay" no longer means homosexual and homophobia no longer exists, it'll be offensive. Language and society change, yes, but it hasn't happened yet with this word. "Gay" is no longer used to mean happy and "*******" is no longer used to mean illegitimate child. Those comparisons don't work.

    And it doesn't matter whether gay people use it, if you aren't gay you shouldn't. Do you think white people are allowed to use the n-word just because some black people do?
    I'm sorry I wasn't aware I wasn't allowed to use the N word. I use the N word. My girlfriend is a ****** ffs. Does that make me a racist? I'm going out with a black girl yet because i use the word ****** am i promoting hate?

    You seem to think language changes instantly It doesn't it takes time, and this is the transition time of the word Gay. If people didn't change the meanings of word language would never change. it does.
    How the hell does skin colour change what i am and allowed to say?

    I can tell I am not getting anywhere with you i will leave you with the immortal words of George Carlin:

    "There's a different group to get pissed off at you in this country for everything your not supposed to say. Can't say ******, Boogie, Jig, Jigaboo, Skinhead, Moolimoolinyon, Schvatzit, Junglebunny. Greaser, Greaseball, Dago, Guinea, Whop, Ginzo, Kike, Zebe, Heed, Yid, Mocky, Himie, Mick, Donkey, Turkey, Limey, Frog. Zip, Zipperhead, Squarehead, Crout, Hiney, Jerry, Hun, Slope, Slopehead, Chink, Gook. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of themselves. Their only words. It's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking about bad words and bad language. ********! It's the context that makes them good or bad. The context. That makes them good or bad. For instance, you take the word "******." There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word "******" in and of itself. It's the racist ******* who's using it that you ought to be concerned about. We don't mind when Richard Pryer or Eddie Murphy say it. Why? Because we know they're not racist. Their *******! Context. Context. We don't mind their context because we know they're black. Hey, I know I'm whitey, the blue-eyed devil, paddy-o, fay gray boy, honkey, mother-****** myself. Don't bother my ass. Their only words. You can't be afraid of words that speak the truth, even if it's an unpleasant truth, like the fact that there's a bigot and a racist in every living room on every street corner in this country. "

    I hope once you have read this you have a bit more understanding. If not then I advise you don't come to debate if you refuse to let anything change your mind.

    Don't be gay
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Point is, it's no longer really in general use and on top of that being an illegitimate child is no longer viewed as something terrible. Until "gay" is no longer really used to mean homosexual and homosexuality isn't seen as bad, it will not be in anywhere near the same situation as the word "*******".
    No? Then why all the hoo-haa in the media about "unwed teenage mothers"? Also, could you honestly say you'd not think less of a woman who got knocked up by some stranger than a woman who got knocked up by her husband? I certainly would, a lot less in fact.
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    Nope. It's a word, and if you haven't got "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" drummed into your skull by now then you should just go live in a cave.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    It's become divorced from it's previous meaning.

    When people say "that's gay" they don't mean "homosexual", any more than someone who says "my best friend is gay" means that he is "happy".

    It's on a par with the word "moron" - which was originally a medical term, then used as an insult, but has now become completely inoffensive.

    At the end of the day, language is a democracy; if the people who say the word don't mean it offensively, and the vast majority of people who here it don't find it offensive, then it isn't offensive. Fullstop.

    Who says it's become divorced from it's previous meaning? Because to the majority of people, it hasn't. I might as well go around calling everyone n****** or pakis or jews or blacks if they annoy me, and then say 'oh but it's not offensive because it's become divorced from it's previous meaning'. The fact that a hell of a lot of people find it offensive mean it hasn't become divorced from its previous meaning, that it is offensive and that people shouldn't use it. Just because you don't find it offensive that doesn't mean it's ok to use.
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    (Original post by HyperGiant)
    So when Chris Rock said "I love black people but i hate *******" is this bad?

    When he says:
    " You can't have anything valuable in your house. ******* will break in and take it all. You can't do anything without some ignorant-ass ******* ******* it up."

    This shows how language has changed.

    Unless you are suggesting that Chris Rock hates black people.

    This will confuse you:
    " I am tired of *******. I wish they would let me join the Ku Klux Klan. I'd do a drive-by from LA to Brooklyn." - Chris Rock (a black guy)

    EDIT: the word asterixed out is the N word in case you didn't guess
    I take it that he is using the N word to refer to black people with a certain . . . pechant for crime? Well, that may be how he (and perhaps other black people) use the word, but that isn't how the world as a whole sees the phrase.

    He isn't racist, no. He is attacking people with a certain attitude not people with a certain skin colour. However, just because one person redefines a word and then uses it in an arguably non offensive way, that doesn't mean all uses of the word as long as they are not intended to offend are OK.

    I would go out into the street, shout "I hate pakis" and then say "well, I think paki means 'nasty person from the middle east who likes to steal'" to justify myself when someone gets offended.

    Also - just because someone knows they can get laughs by insulting their own people, that doesn't mean that using the same language as them out on the street is OK. Many 'entertainers' tread a fine line between self-mockery and being offensive.

    I could make a joke about how all bisexuals are only after sex and are totally greedy, and because most people would see me as bisexual I might be able to get away with it, but I'd be mortified if people started saying "that's so bisexual" when they meant "that's just greedy" or "that's excessive".
 
 
 
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