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    (Original post by HyperGiant)
    Language is subjective. Once you understand this you will see how anything can be offensive and how nothing can be offensive.

    Yes I would encourage people to grow a pair (context context context) and not be so sensitive.

    I used to be in a wheel chair? am i still allowed to use cripple as a bad term? or do i have to stop now I am better?

    whatever, this is pathetic. Read my George Carlin quote.
    Yes, language evolves and is subjective. However, just because you and your mates don't see why what you say is rude, offensive or easily misunderstood, that doesn't mean you have some kind of right to say whatever your want and expect people to just deal with it.

    Sure, you can say what you want but when someone pulls you up and says "actually, I find what you say offensive because the terms you use are historically offensive terms for people like me" then don't expect to wiggle out of it by saying "whatever, stop being pathetic, I didn't mean it like that".

    Take some responsibility for the words you use and the effects that have.

    I once called my mate a poof in front of my gay aunt. She was deeply annoyed and I had the good grace to say sorry and realise why she was upset. I didn't wriggle around, trying to justify myself on the basis that I didn't mean it in a nasty way or I wasn't making a reference to gay people or whatever. Sure, I think she overreacted because she knew that I wasn't homophobic but I took responsibility for what came out of my mouth.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Of course it is.
    Why?
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    This thread's so gay. :camp: :hand:






    Am I late? :puppyeyes:
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    I'm saying that saying 'thats so gay' is only offensive if its intended to be offensive. Nothing is offensive without context, so there is nothing wrong with calling, for example, an inanimate object gay, it doesn't make someone a homophobe.
    Someone doesn't have to mean something to be offensive for it to offend anyway. That's not how it works.

    For example, purely hypothetically- I might say 'aww, black people are so cute because they're kind of like animals, almost like pets' (silly example, I know). I'm not meaning to be offensive, but it's still quite blatantly offensive.

    Surely the fact that many people on this thread are offended by the pejorative use of the word 'gay' shows that it is an offensive use of language.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    Why?
    Because it is intended to hurt the child and is likely to cause psychological harm.
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    (Original post by HyperGiant)
    I don't know what the asterisked word is. but surely offence depends on the person taking offence.

    If i take offence to the word "Kettle" surely that makes the word kettle offensive?

    Where as if I call my gf a N ****** and she is not offended, that means in that situation ****** is not an offensive word
    Maybe she doesnt get offended and maybe that's alright between you two but if you were to use that word in front of other black people, I think you'll find the overwhelming majority to be very offended.

    Using your Kettle analogy, the word kettle should only become offensive if the majority of kettles found it offensive. I really think it's up to the group concerned to judge whether they find it offensive, not you or the user of the word. If it's on an individual basis, i.e your girlfriend and you've checked that it's ok to use with her, then whatever, fine, as long as you arent hurting her feelings/causing offence. I personally am suprised she isnt offended, to be honest, but if she's fine, she's fine.

    I would never use the P word to describe an Indian or Pakistani, nor the H word for a white person because I'm not a member of that group and I don't feel it's acceptable for me to. I don't use the N word and I don't agree with anyone using it, but it's particularly wrong if someone who isnt black uses it.

    I would be mortified if my boyfriend called me the N word (and probably think twice about continuing the relationship with him), but hey thats just me. It wasn't that long ago that the word was used commonly to insult black people (in the 50s) and not nearly enough time has passed for it to lose it's highly racist connotations.

    I would assume that using gay to describe something bad is offensive to gay people as the primary meaning of gay is to be homosexual. Homosexuality has been historically linked with negativity/impurity etc and that still stands as I find society quite homophobic at times. As a result, I dont use gay to describe something stupid or annoying. I dont use any of those type of words. They arent even funny and are definately really immature. I really havent heard anyone use that word much after secondary school.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    You're not messing with my head, you're just saying irrelevent things to try and justify using language irresponsibly and offensively.

    If your friends say they're anti-homophobia and still use the word gay offensively, then they're just hypocrites, that's all. And probably pretty ignorant. That doesn't prove anything.

    Language is not just 'letters and sounds'. Language is the way we communicate, it's the way we spread ideas and teach other people. We have to be responsible for the way we use language because if we don't we allow prejudice and hatred to blossom under the excuse of 'it's just language'. Since you think language is just 'letters and sounds' would you go up to a black person and call them the 'N' word to their face, and expect them not to be offended? Would you be ok with people going around calling your mother/sister/girlfriend *****es and sluts and the 'C' word? Would you expect your mum to be ok with casually being called these things, because there's 'nothing inherent' about words?

    You can't just redefine what you mean by a word and then expect nobody to be offended, or expect that to be ok. I can't suddenly say 'as far as I'm concerned, the 'N' word now is not offensive and just means black person, so I'm going to call every black person I meet a ******.' That's not how it works, and I'm at a loss to see how you can possibly claim it is.
    Hold on a sec, I never said I expect nobody to be offended. I expect many people to be offended, and obviously I am tactful and don't go up to my girlfriends mum and say "Sup N ******?"

    All I'm saying that is I use these words. I don't want to start any fights or anything, and I can't be aresed to explain all this to random people who start when I say "your such a gay/batty boi" etc.

    And we aren't hypocrites we understand the subjectivity of language, and the difference between what you appear say and what you think.
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    I'm gay and even I use "gay" to mean derogatory sometimes! I don't like this idea of words and phrases being harmful in themselves. I don't see how what is effectively just sounds and letters could be harmful if there is not a harmful intent behind them. If one of my friends used "gay" as a derogatory term all the time, but had no objections to homosexuality itself, why would that bother me?

    People have brought up the example that you don't go around saying "That's so black" or "That's so jewish" or something like that, but really, that's just because we haven't grown up in a world where those words are used in such a context. If the phrase that had evolved "That's so black" instead of "That's so gay", I wouldn't have an objection to that either. It not worthwhile taking offense to trivial details like that, it detracts from ACTUALLY dealing with homophobia. Telling someone to stop using "gay" in that context will not magically make them more accepting of homosexuality. It is just a nuisance.

    Homophobia is defined by your ideology, not your language.
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    (Original post by HyperGiant)
    Hold on a sec, I never said I expect nobody to be offended. I expect many people to be offended, and obviously I am tactful and don't go up to my girlfriends mum and say "Sup N ******?"

    All I'm saying that is I use these words. I don't want to start any fights or anything, and I can't be aresed to explain all this to random people who start when I say "your such a gay/batty boi" etc.

    And we aren't hypocrites we understand the subjectivity of language, and the difference between what you appear say and what you think.
    'All I'm saying that is I use these words'

    That's not all you're saying at all. If you can't defend your claims about how it's ok to use the word 'gay' to mean 'bad'- well, I'm not surprised, because it's pretty inexcusable. I am surprised at your apparent backtracking, however.
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    Never really saw it as offensive to be honest. The Hilary Duff one was quite funny though "that's so girl wearing a skirt as a top" lol. But why the **** would you include Chris Crocker's video?!
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    I might as well go around calling everyone n****** or pakis or jews or blacks
    To be fair, none of those three are remotely offensive. Whoever heard of a Jew being upset at being called a Jew?

    There's nothing wrong with saying "that's so gay". People are entitled to dislike homosexuals (I don't for the record) so even if it was derogatory - which it isn't - people are still entitled to voice distaste even if it's through a figure of speech. There is a difference between harassment and having an opinion.

    That was the most extreme case - the reality is most people who say it don't even care about gay people to begin with.

    This stinks of the thought police. You might not be entitled to harass people but you're entitled to dislike them. Stopping people from saying "That's so gay" is tantamount to saying "You're not allowed to think like that". I think the real issue is whether the objective is to cause emotional hurt to a homosexual. If it isn't then it's permissible. We should always be wary and deeply conservative about stipulating acceptable language - because language reflects thought.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Because it is intended to hurt the child and is likely to cause psychological harm.
    Maybe the child should grow a pair? :p:

    I think free speech is one of the most fundamental rights we have tbh
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    (Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
    Yes, language evolves and is subjective. However, just because you and your mates don't see why what you say is rude, offensive or easily misunderstood, that doesn't mean you have some kind of right to say whatever your want and expect people to just deal with it.

    Sure, you can say what you want but when someone pulls you up and says "actually, I find what you say offensive because the terms you use are historically offensive terms for people like me" then don't expect to wiggle out of it by saying "whatever, stop being pathetic, I didn't mean it like that".

    Take some responsibility for the words you use and the effects that have.

    I once called my mate a poof in front of my gay aunt. She was deeply annoyed and I had the good grace to say sorry and realise why she was upset. I didn't wriggle around, trying to justify myself on the basis that I didn't mean it in a nasty way or I wasn't making a reference to gay people or whatever. Sure, I think she overreacted because she knew that I wasn't homophobic but I took responsibility for what came out of my mouth.
    As I have said before I do not expect no one to get offended, I just don't care if they do. And if someone lets me know they have a problem with it (like my gfs mate who think the word ****** is offensive) I either explain it to them or if i cba just say, go away, I wasn't talking to you. Or something of the sort.

    You may think I'm being a prick but I am not up for explaining stuff to random people who take offence.

    I am offended by many things, religious beliefs, how homosexuals are portrayed on TV, loads of stuff. I am not going to ***** and whine to people about it though.
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    This thread is gay.

    People who do get offended by this should man up...








    See what I did there?
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    'All I'm saying that is I use these words'

    That's not all you're saying at all. If you can't defend your claims about how it's ok to use the word 'gay' to mean 'bad'- well, I'm not surprised, because it's pretty inexcusable. I am surprised at your apparent backtracking, however.
    I am not back tracking. You find where I said I use these words everywhere and i will give you a hat.

    I have defended my points, and we are having a discussion about it.

    anyway, i got lectures now. I'll reply if you have anything good to say or something which just needs correcting.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    Maybe the child should grow a pair? :p:

    I think free speech is one of the most fundamental rights we have tbh
    Obviously, but that doesn't make it not wrong to deliberately abuse a child. What about bullying? Is that not wrong?
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Someone doesn't have to mean something to be offensive for it to offend anyway. That's not how it works.

    For example, purely hypothetically- I might say 'aww, black people are so cute because they're kind of like animals, almost like pets' (silly example, I know). I'm not meaning to be offensive, but it's still quite blatantly offensive.
    The intention behind the word is what matters IMO. If someone takes something I say the wrong way I will explain, but if they continue to take offense where none is intended that is there problem, not mine.

    Surely the fact that many people on this thread are offended by the pejorative use of the word 'gay' shows that it is an offensive use of language.
    If you deem whether something is offensive or not to be based solely on the number of people who take offense to it, than yes it is. Seems rather arbitrary to me though. Going back to my original post, following that logic if enough people claimed they were offended by the word 'hello' that would be all that would be required to make it an unacceptable word to use.
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    (Original post by RyanT)
    To be fair, none of those three are remotely offensive. Whoever heard of a Jew being upset at being called a Jew?
    Taking my post out of context. That comment was bout using the words as insults. And are you seriously saying there's nothing 'remotely offensive' about the 'N' word, or paki? Jeez.


    (Original post by RyanT)
    There's nothing wrong with saying "that's so gay". People are entitled to dislike homosexuals (I don't for the record) so even if it was derogatory - which it isn't - people are still entitled to voice distaste even if it's through a figure of speech. There is a difference between harassment and having an opinion.

    That was the most extreme case - the reality is most people who say it don't even care about gay people to begin with.

    This stinks of the thought police. You might not be entitled to harass people but you're entitled to dislike them. Stopping people from saying "That's so gay" is tantamount to saying "You're not allowed to think like that". I think the real issue is whether the objective is to cause emotional hurt to a homosexual. If it isn't then it's permissible. We should always be wary and deeply conservative about stipulating acceptable language - because language reflects thought.
    Intent is a crappy guide to go by. Like I said in another post, a lot of the time when people are racist or sexist or homophobic, they're certainly not intending to be. This doesn't make it ok. People need to realise the implications language has, and be responsible about it.

    This has nothing to do with 'thought police'. Thinking something and saying something are miles apart. People can think what they want, I don't care, but when people start saying prejudiced things and using language offensively, that's a whole other ballpark. Language involves other people and has consequences- thinking alone does not. Using language is action. Thought is just thought.
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    No but it's wrong that society makes everything that has a hint of un-pc-ness wrong. Anyone that is offended by that needs to get a grip
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Obviously, but that doesn't make it not wrong to deliberately abuse a child. What about bullying? Is that not wrong?
    Define 'bullying'.
 
 
 
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