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    Or do they actually sit on the Board of Directors as well?

    Interestingly, someone told me that associates at UBS are called "Associate Directors" as they need the term director in their names for some sort of Swiss authority (sorry, not very clear on this)

    Cheers!
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    MDs aren't on the Board. And no, it's not a marketing term, it just means they're an absolute god.
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    Depends on what area of IB, but they are the guys that are at the forefront of the deal.

    At UBS the major difference between Assoc and AD is that AD can sign with the bank's name.
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    (Original post by loggins)
    MDs aren't on the Board. And no, it's not a marketing term, it just means they're an absolute god.
    well if they aren't on the board, then it is a marketing term
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    (Original post by Another One)
    well if they aren't on the board, then it is a marketing term
    Lol, how? The clue is in the word "Managing" implying they have control over the daily running of the company. They're essentially the most senior Managers within the company, it has nothing to do with Marketing...
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    (Original post by loggins)
    Lol, how? The clue is in the word "Managing" implying they have control over the daily running of the company. They're essentially the most senior Managers within the company, it has nothing to do with Marketing...
    Sorry to be pedantic, but:

    Word "director" means that the person sits on the Board of Directors (BoD) - as an exec director - along with Non Exec directors and collectively makes decisions about the company. Being branded as an MD (who by the way is the head of the Exec Directors), while not being on the BoD seems like a way to give a good impression about the MDs to clients (that they are dealing with high level people). I am not disagreeing that they are most senior managers but the word director is being incorrectly used here. I imagine it was a US phenomena which caught up in other countries.

    Happy to be proved incorrect.
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    it is a term for a senior employee, not more, not less.
    once in a bank you notice that the spectrum of MDs is a very broad one.
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    (Original post by Another One)
    Sorry to be pedantic, but:

    Word "director" means that the person sits on the Board of Directors (BoD) - as an exec director - along with Non Exec directors and collectively makes decisions about the company. Being branded as an MD (who by the way is the head of the Exec Directors), while not being on the BoD seems like a way to give a good impression about the MDs to clients (that they are dealing with high level people). I am not disagreeing that they are most senior managers but the word director is being incorrectly used here. I imagine it was a US phenomena which caught up in other countries.

    Happy to be proved incorrect.
    I think you mean 'nominal title' rather than 'marketing term', this is where you're causing confusion, it has nothing to do with marketing, it's just a name given to the highest ranking managers.
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    I think by 'marketing' the OP means hyped or exaggerated - a way to make clients feel the person they're talking to holds a higher ranking than he/she really does.
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    I see... It's probably the other way round if anything - to make the MD feel that little bit more special! :p:
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    Of course. Anybody who believes otherwise has fallen prey to the marketing. At almost any non bank firm, Managing Director would refer to a CEO-level director on the board. Indeed, many companies' memorandums and articles explicitly recognise the term.

    "MDs" in banks would have less fancy names at other firms. Case in point: Google's widely cited release on China last week was released by Senior Vice President, Corporate Development. Doesn't have the same click, does it? Reasons for doing so are obvious: to keep clients happy (eg: when a SVP meets MD) and to keep the MDs happy.
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    (Original post by Sigma)
    Of course. Anybody who believes otherwise has fallen prey to the marketing. At almost any non bank firm, Managing Director would refer to a CEO-level director on the board. Indeed, many companies' memorandums and articles explicitly recognise the term.

    "MDs" in banks would have less fancy names at other firms. Case in point: Google's widely cited release on China last week was released by Senior Vice President, Corporate Development. Doesn't have the same click, does it? Reasons for doing so are obvious: to keep clients happy (eg: when a SVP meets MD) and to keep the MDs happy.
    Thanks.

    To add, in the UK, MD is the CEO, being the head of Executive Directors on the BoD, who has overall responsibility for the company's future.

    Also, in most UK public companies, the heads of various business areas (I suppose "Vice Presidents" in American Corporates) are also "directors" - Sales Director / HR Director etc.
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    (Original post by Another One)
    Sorry to be pedantic, but:

    Word "director" means that the person sits on the Board of Directors (BoD) - as an exec director - along with Non Exec directors and collectively makes decisions about the company. Being branded as an MD (who by the way is the head of the Exec Directors), while not being on the BoD seems like a way to give a good impression about the MDs to clients (that they are dealing with high level people). I am not disagreeing that they are most senior managers but the word director is being incorrectly used here. I imagine it was a US phenomena which caught up in other countries.

    Happy to be proved incorrect.
    Only in that context - they are not directors of 'the firm', rather they are generally in charge of a vary specific line of business - you may have a MD in charge of a Middle East project finance desk, an MD in charge of commodity deriv structuring. They have meaningful decision making powers in their specific arenas; hence 'director'. This doesn't mean they have any power at board level - but they DO have some 'steer' with respect to at least some aspects of the business. Bear in mind some banks have 200k+ people - at large non-financial firms of the same size you tend to have 20-30 levels of management - IBs generally aim to have (or aim to APPEAR to have) fairly flat organizational structures.

    But yes - the terms Vice President and Managing Director in the context many banks use them can be extremely misleading to someone with no knowledge of the industry. For example there can only be (up to) one President (if the structure of the firm and its locality lends itself to using this term) but there could be 3000 'Vice Presidents'. However there is little risk that clients will fall into the trap of believing they are speaking to a Chief Executive (which IS the correct, defined term for the managing officer of a PUBLICLY traded company - unlike MD which in your context is generally used with respect to PRIVATELY owned firms - maybe you can explain to me the reason for this distinction, I cant!)

    I'm sure one of the old wall street banks came up with these terms to make their people feel more important - in that context perhaps you are onto something when you say they are 'marketing terms' - but that doesn't hold any water these days as there are probably thousands of banking 'MDs' around the world

    Roughly translated:
    4 =Analyst=1-3 years with firm (or generally pretty useless if you're at this stage for more than 4-5 years!)
    3 =Associate=Promotion from grad scheme, or MBA /experienced level entry
    2 =Vice President (VP)=Longer tenure or more important roles - I know one bank basically elevates anyone doing any trading / meaningful revenue generating activities to this level even if they are fairly new. Generally for team managers in back/middle office roles whilst very common in front office
    1 =Managing Director (MD) = Probably 8-10 years in banking or otherwise some kind of senior management lateral hire. Heads of trading desks / industry teams (say) or more senior, managing people but not necessarily that many in front office role (there are quite a few MDs generally in revenue generating areas). In back/middle office departments there is likely to be only 1 MD = dept head.

    Yet in the biggest IBs you will probably (at a guess?) have 150-200+ MDs (???) but the board is typically no more than 24-30 or so - and many of these board members will be non-executive, on the boards of a whole host of companies, working for the firm in an advisory capacity only with no input (and indeed no power whatsoever) on a day-to-day basis.

    Some have others chucked in for good measure. Executive directors (EDs) tend to have a meaningful ownership of some business function but are not yet MD level. Basically a VP+. Some banks I believe still have ridiculously vast hierarchies but this isn't the norm nowadays.

    This is how it has worked in the environemnt i am familiar with - if anyone else has seen a different story i'd be pleased to hear it
 
 
 
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