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The BNP and Zionism. Is the BNP being hypocritical? watch

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    The BNP (British National Party) have spoken out against the EDL (English Defence League) for being Zionist, or rather for being manipulated by the Zionists:

    “Spelling it out in simple terms, you look at the owners of the Daily Express, the Daily Star and their interests. The EDL is a neo-con operation. This is a Zionist false flag operation, designed to create a real clash of civilisations right here on our streets between Islam and the rest of us.”

    I find it most ironic that many of the faithful members of the BNP are in fact pro-Zionist, although they would not admit it, some BNP members want the Jews to return to Israel so that the messiah can return. For example, there are many BNP supporters on the Net who emblemize (is that a word?) their on-line identity with Judaeo-Christian avatars, such as the lion (of Judah) with a Union Jack flag in the background (another one is the Crusader avatar). Admittedly, the U.Jack is not particularly Judaeo-Christian but it does carry with it the particular form of Christianity of the UK which once stood for "King and country" and "Untill we build Jerusalem upon Old England's green...".

    I saw the same kind of imagery at BNP conferences, together (although at a different conference) with the familiar war-plane in the background, which I think the BNP use to arouse the nostalgia of Old English values; the values of a Christian country; that is to say, Judaeo-Christian country.

    From what I have read Zionism has been directing a lot of the affairs of this country for a long time, way back even before Benjamin Disraeli became Prime minister. We share our Judaeo-centricity with America, and they too have been controlled by the Zionists (America's support for Israel was perhaps the main reason for 9/11) as they are today in the form of the ever influential Israel Lobby.

    I cannot understand how Nick Griffin leader of the BNP can criticize the EDL for being Zionists (or controlled by Zionists) when the very core ethos of their party is fundamentally Judaeo-centric. Whether this be Christian Zionsism like the WDL (Welsh Defence League) or Zionism in the particularly Jewish form (extremist Jews), the links between the two may be very close.

    The BNP of course, many as Christians they are, would find it a convenience to dislike Jews, because, after all, one notion still remains amongst the Christians: the Jews killed Christ, and of course, the Christians can cherish anti-semitism (not necessarily anti-Zionism) without realising that Christianity is the final consequence of Judaism.

    This notion that the Jews killed Christ was advocated by Adolf Hitler himself in his personal diaries!

    But who or what created the social tensions which led to the rise of Nick Griffin and his party?

    I believe that the BNP (being controlled by Christian Zionism via Christian values and doctrines laid down culturally through the Church) rose up against New Labour and its plans for a multicultural society; such a society is at odds with Christianity, and would, no doubt, create social tension and fears. Note, too, that many Christians world-wide perceive multiculturalism as a threat to Christianity (and Christian values) because it reminds them of the Old Testament abomination: Babylon; a multicultural city which was condemned by the Hebrew God for it's iniquity and idolatry. I am sure Nick Griffin would be aware of this too, because many of his faithfull see Europe as being the fulfilment of Revelation prophecy. In fact, some of the BNP members on the internet, especially on Youtube, have noticed the particular EU banner:

    http://www.redicecreations.com/winte...babylonEU4.jpg

    Some BNP members believe this a real fulfiment of Biblical prophecy and, obviously, seeing as they believe this, those BNP members will be very harsh on Europe and will see the rise of European powers in the UK as a threat encapsulated in the belief that Satan is riding on the tide of Europe. This is very dangerous. I wish we could stop seeing things in terms of good and evil but we cannot do this.

    My belief, so far as I can rationalise it, is that the BNP and the EDL are both the products of Zionism (Christian Zionism is a product of Jewish Zionism via traditional doctrine); they both now clash which suits the extremist Jews' purpose entirely. The BNP, however, are an accident (or are a reaction to...) created by New Labour; they rose up against what they believed was a threat to British people, and the British way of life; they aroused the passions of those who believe that the UK should be a Christian country and remain so.

    Overall, this is our Judaeo-centricity, and I am not being anti-semitic here, either; I'm trying to be unbiased as I can.

    Whatever you make of this, do you find it slightly hypocritical for the BNP to rise up against the EDL and play the "Zionist card" against them, seeing that the core values of the party are Judaeo-Christian? But then the BNP may be right. Afterall, the EDL's use of Jewish motifs is factual. But then, so too, does the BNP use Jewish iconography as emblems which reflects their cultural and religious instincts (i.e. the Lion of Judah and the British Flag)
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    I find that most so called "anti-Zionists" are just closet anti-Semites. The fact that the BNP are blustering about the "Zionist media" conspiracy theories (because it's no longer acceptable to say nonsense about the Jews running the press), simply proves that, and only confirms my belief that the BNP are just neo-Nazis in suits.

    I await the TSR BNP and TSR Islamist scum to have a go at me. Funny how all fascists deep down believe in the same nonsense.
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    "An enemy of my enemy is my friend". They both know who their new enemy is. It's called opportunism.
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    so they want their golden age to be restored in israel is that what you mean?
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    Griffin will do anything to distance himself from the EDL, and make the BNP seem more electable. Its working.
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    The BNP has been around for more than 20 years, it's merely a case of opportunism that they have been able to rise in popularity, the War on Terror and such like has only hastened fears about Muslim extremism. I don't know that the party have any central ideology, they just want to be in power and they will say anything that separates them from the other parties, clearly if they are ex-National Front they're bad news.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    The BNP (British National Party) have spoken out against the EDL (English Defence League) for being Zionist, or rather for being manipulated by the Zionists:

    “Spelling it out in simple terms, you look at the owners of the Daily Express, the Daily Star and their interests. The EDL is a neo-con operation. This is a Zionist false flag operation, designed to create a real clash of civilisations right here on our streets between Islam and the rest of us.”

    I find it most ironic that many of the faithful members of the BNP are in fact pro-Zionist, although they would not admit it, some BNP members want the Jews to return to Israel so that the messiah can return. For example, there are many BNP supporters on the Net who emblemize (is that a word?) their on-line identity with Judaeo-Christian avatars, such as the lion (of Judah) with a Union Jack flag in the background (another one is the Crusader avatar). Admittedly, the U.Jack is not particularly Judaeo-Christian but it does carry with it the particular form of Christianity of the UK which once stood for "King and country" and "Untill we build Jerusalem upon Old England's green...".

    I saw the same kind of imagery at BNP conferences, together (although at a different conference) with the familiar war-plane in the background, which I think the BNP use to arouse the nostalgia of Old English values; the values of a Christian country; that is to say, Judaeo-Christian country.

    From what I have read Zionism has been directing a lot of the affairs of this country for a long time, way back even before Benjamin Disraeli became Prime minister. We share our Judaeo-centricity with America, and they too have been controlled by the Zionists (America's support for Israel was perhaps the main reason for 9/11) as they are today in the form of the ever influential Israel Lobby.

    I cannot understand how Nick Griffin leader of the BNP can criticize the EDL for being Zionists (or controlled by Zionists) when the very core ethos of their party is fundamentally Judaeo-centric. Whether this be Christian Zionsism like the WDL (Welsh Defence League) or Zionism in the particularly Jewish form (extremist Jews), the links between the two may be very close.

    The BNP of course, many as Christians they are, would find it a convenience to dislike Jews, because, after all, one notion still remains amongst the Christians: the Jews killed Christ, and of course, the Christians can cherish anti-semitism (not necessarily anti-Zionism) without realising that Christianity is the final consequence of Judaism.

    This notion that the Jews killed Christ was advocated by Adolf Hitler himself in his personal diaries!

    But who or what created the social tensions which led to the rise of Nick Griffin and his party?

    I believe that the BNP (being controlled by Christian Zionism via Christian values and doctrines laid down culturally through the Church) rose up against New Labour and its plans for a multicultural society; such a society is at odds with Christianity, and would, no doubt, create social tension and fears. Note, too, that many Christians world-wide perceive multiculturalism as a threat to Christianity (and Christian values) because it reminds them of the Old Testament abomination: Babylon; a multicultural city which was condemned by the Hebrew God for it's iniquity and idolatry. I am sure Nick Griffin would be aware of this too, because many of his faithfull see Europe as being the fulfilment of Revelation prophecy. In fact, some of the BNP members on the internet, especially on Youtube, have noticed the particular EU banner:

    http://www.redicecreations.com/winte...babylonEU4.jpg

    Some BNP members believe this a real fulfiment of Biblical prophecy and, obviously, seeing as they believe this, those BNP members will be very harsh on Europe and will see the rise of European powers in the UK as a threat encapsulated in the belief that Satan is riding on the tide of Europe. This is very dangerous. I wish we could stop seeing things in terms of good and evil but we cannot do this.

    My belief, so far as I can rationalise it, is that the BNP and the EDL are both the products of Zionism (Christian Zionism is a product of Jewish Zionism via traditional doctrine); they both now clash which suits the extremist Jews' purpose entirely. The BNP, however, are an accident (or are a reaction to...) created by New Labour; they rose up against what they believed was a threat to British people, and the British way of life; they aroused the passions of those who believe that the UK should be a Christian country and remain so.

    Overall, this is our Judaeo-centricity, and I am not being anti-semitic here, either; I'm trying to be unbiased as I can.

    Whatever you make of this, do you find it slightly hypocritical for the BNP to rise up against the EDL and play the "Zionist card" against them, seeing that the core values of the party are Judaeo-Christian? But then the BNP may be right. Afterall, the EDL's use of Jewish motifs is factual. But then, so too, does the BNP use Jewish iconography as emblems which reflects their cultural and religious instincts (i.e. the Lion of Judah and the British Flag)
    Honestly, your posts are just stringing together extremely loosely tied-in ideas, and then present them as some kind of conspiracy that you think people are trying to keep hidden.

    Just to say this, though - Judeo-Christian social influences have nothing particularly with zionism, other than your forced association between the two.
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    we are being controlled by the free masons and zionists, and they watch everything we do, they're watching me type this right now
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    I find that most so called "anti-Zionists" are just closet anti-Semites. The fact that the BNP are blustering about the "Zionist media" conspiracy theories (because it's no longer acceptable to say nonsense about the Jews running the press), simply proves that, and only confirms my belief that the BNP are just neo-Nazis in suits.

    I await the TSR BNP and TSR Islamist scum to have a go at me. Funny how all fascists deep down believe in the same nonsense.
    you said what I wanted to say perfectly
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    I find that most so called "anti-Zionists" are just closet anti-Semites. The fact that the BNP are blustering about the "Zionist media" conspiracy theories (because it's no longer acceptable to say nonsense about the Jews running the press), simply proves that, and only confirms my belief that the BNP are just neo-Nazis in suits.

    I await the TSR BNP and TSR Islamist scum to have a go at me. Funny how all fascists deep down believe in the same nonsense.
    Rubbish, anti-Zionists are against Jews wanting to enforce their 'right' to a homeland by displacing other people. Anti-Zionists would have no problem with Jews right to live in the states they were originally in, free from persecution.

    You could also say that most "enemies of the Islamic revolution" are actually just anti-Iranian.....Saddam and the Ba'ath regime.....neocons in the US....neocons in Israel. Does this make you an enemy of Iran as well....?
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Rubbish, anti-Zionists are against Jews wanting to enforce their 'right' to a homeland by displacing other people. Anti-Zionists would have no problem with Jews right to live in the states they were originally in, free from persecution.

    You could also say that most "enemies of the Islamic revolution" are actually just anti-Iranian.....Saddam and the Ba'ath regime.....neocons in the US....neocons in Israel. Does this make you an enemy of Iran as well....?
    Haha, yeah, notice that. Most so called "anti Zionists" have no problem with invasions. They didn't speak out when Iraq invaded Iran in 1980 (indeed, some like George Galloway remained Saddam's best mate), they didn't speak out about Tibet, or Taiwan or Burma or any of the millions of other places under occupation regimes. Notice how they always target the Jews, and much like their predecessors in the early 20th century, they're always harping on about some conspiracy theory, usually about control of the media by "Zionists" (the artists formerly known as Jews :rolleyes:)

    Erm, no, your example totally fails. Most of the Iranian populace is against the regime so :hand:
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    Honestly, your posts are just stringing together extremely loosely tied-in ideas, and then present them as some kind of conspiracy that you think people are trying to keep hidden.
    This.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    Haha, yeah, notice that. Most so called "anti Zionists" have no problem with invasions. They didn't speak out when Iraq invaded Iran in 1980 (indeed, some like George Galloway remained Saddam's best mate), they didn't speak out about Tibet, or Taiwan or Burma or any of the millions of other places under occupation regimes. Notice how they always target the Jews, and much like their predecessors in the early 20th century, they're always harping on about some conspiracy theory, usually about control of the media by "Zionists" (the artists formerly known as Jews :rolleyes:)

    Erm, no, your example totally fails. Most of the Iranian populace is against the regime so :hand:
    Your argument is total bull, because its based on an assumption which you have just made up. "They" didn't speak out when Iraq invaded Iran in 1980...? Who is "they"? Many anti-Zionists are left wingers, (though not all by any means) and I'm sure you would find that they would have been opposed to Saddam's imperial invasion of Iran as well as all the other invasions you mention.

    It is true that the Israel - Palestine issue, gets talked about more than other countries issues, I think this is partly due to the fact that it is near the top of the agenda in every western democracy, because every western democracy has a high population of Muslims who put forward the pro Palestine view, and a high population of Jews who put forwards the pro Israel view. So you do hear more about this issue than others.

    Speaking for myself, I'm an anti-Zionist and I'm also anti the Islamic revolution. But guess what, I'm totally anti Saddam's invasion of Iran in 1981. Just because I don't like Khomenei and his clerical dictatorship doesn't mean I thought Saddam had any right to go and try and spread his Ba'ath dictatorship in Iran. Just because I don't like Saddam, doesn't mean I thought George W Bush had any right to go and destroy Iraq.

    Anti-Zionism is about believing in principles and rights, ie, it is immoral to displace people from their homeland. Opposing that doesn't make you an enemy of Jews does it......if you were horrified at Jews being displaced and persecuted across Europe during the second world war, you should be horrified at the same happening to Palestinians.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    (indeed, some like George Galloway remained Saddam's best mate)
    Galloway wasn't ever Saddam's best mate, he might have been over to see him and shake his hand, but he wasn't ever into Saddam like he's become the Iranian regime's best mate. I think with Galloway though its to do with him having a contract to present a phone in show on a TV channel sponsored by the Iranian state, I doubt he really cares much for the Iranian regime deep down, but commercial concerns mean he has to be a mouthpiece for them and **** off all those Iranians who phone up, tell him how great they think he is, then make a comment about lack of democracy in Iran and he feels the eyes of Khamenei on his back and he has to issue a robust defence of the regime....
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Your argument is total bull, because its based on an assumption which you have just made up. "They" didn't speak out when Iraq invaded Iran in 1980...? Who is "they"? Many anti-Zionists are left wingers, (though not all by any means) and I'm sure you would find that they would have been opposed to Saddam's imperial invasion of Iran as well as all the other invasions you mention.
    I gave you an example, namely that of George Galloway, you were just too arrogant to read it. And no, many were not, and that's been proven by their silence, which in politics is basically support. Same goes for Tibet and so on. But when the media's darling Palestine is in trouble, these so called defenders of liberty start getting a bit too over-aroused, forgetting that the crimes Israel may produce against an innocent people are occurring all over the world.

    It is true that the Israel - Palestine issue, gets talked about more than other countries issues, I think this is partly due to the fact that it is near the top of the agenda in every western democracy, because every western democracy has a high population of Muslims who put forward the pro Palestine view, and a high population of Jews who put forwards the pro Israel view. So you do hear more about this issue than others.

    Speaking for myself, I'm an anti-Zionist and I'm also anti the Islamic revolution. But guess what, I'm totally anti Saddam's invasion of Iran in 1981. Just because I don't like Khomenei and his clerical dictatorship doesn't mean I thought Saddam had any right to go and try and spread his Ba'ath dictatorship in Iran. Just because I don't like Saddam, doesn't mean I thought George W Bush had any right to go and destroy Iraq.
    Thanks for proving my point. It is essentially a means for fascists to carry on having a go at Jews, those fascists can be Islamist in nature or national socialist like the BNP. But you're mixing different issues, the point was about the nature of anti zionism, which you claim is about being against invading forces. But as I showed, most of these "anti Zionists" only harp on about Israel, they couldn't care less about other occupation regimes, which I think is supremely hypocritical and probably just rooted in having a go at Israel because it's a Jewish state.

    Also: Saddam invaded in 1980.

    Anti-Zionism is about believing in principles and rights, ie, it is immoral to displace people from their homeland. Opposing that doesn't make you an enemy of Jews does it......if you were horrified at Jews being displaced and persecuted across Europe during the second world war, you should be horrified at the same happening to Palestinians.
    Of course I am. I am pro Palestinian and pro Israeli. However, anti-Zionism is only one side...it's just about having a go at Israel. Notice how "anti Zionists" e.g. SWP, Respect, PressTV etc lionise the Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists. Is that really the right thing to do to make peace?
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Galloway wasn't ever Saddam's best mate, he might have been over to see him and shake his hand, but he wasn't ever into Saddam like he's become the Iranian regime's best mate. I think with Galloway though its to do with him having a contract to present a phone in show on a TV channel sponsored by the Iranian state, I doubt he really cares much for the Iranian regime deep down, but commercial concerns mean he has to be a mouthpiece for them and **** off all those Iranians who phone up, tell him how great they think he is, then make a comment about lack of democracy in Iran and he feels the eyes of Khamenei on his back and he has to issue a robust defence of the regime....
    Galloway is a political slut, he bends over for whoever pays him best. 20 years ago, it was all about saluting Saddam who "stood up to the USA", now it's about arse kissing the Islamic Republic because they're "anti Imperialists" (whatever the **** that means). The man is beneath contempt, but that's beside the point, the issue was that he gets so obsessed with Palestine, but he actively helps oppress another group of people, i.e. Iranians. He's a hypocrite, he doesn't really care about helping oppressed people.
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    UKIP yo
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    Galloway is a political slut, he bends over for whoever pays him best. 20 years ago, it was all about saluting Saddam who "stood up to the USA", now it's about arse kissing the Islamic Republic because they're "anti Imperialists" (whatever the **** that means). The man is beneath contempt, but that's beside the point, the issue was that he gets so obsessed with Palestine, but he actively helps oppress another group of people, i.e. Iranians. He's a hypocrite, he doesn't really care about helping oppressed people.
    I agree with you on this one.

    On the other point, I think you are confusing people who are opposed to Zionism, with anti-Semites, and I know there are a lot of anti-Semites in the world.

    Your argument is basically-

    anti-Semites are also anti-Zionists (true)
    therefore, anti-Zionists are also anti-Semites (not true)

    there are far, far more anti-Zionists in the world, including Jewish anti-Zionists, than there are anti-Semites.

    Your argument doesn't follow and its a cheap way of labelling people opposed to Jewish oppression of Palestinians, as anti-Semites.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    Speaking for myself, I'm an anti-Zionist and I'm also anti the Islamic revolution. But guess what, I'm totally anti Saddam's invasion of Iran in 1981. Just because I don't like Khomenei and his clerical dictatorship doesn't mean I thought Saddam had any right to go and try and spread his Ba'ath dictatorship in Iran.

    Ahh, but are you "Anti-Iran"? Do you oppose the existance of the Iraqi state entirely? Because that would be the equivalent of being anti-Zionist, if you really understand the term.

    Anti-Zionism is about believing in principles and rights, ie, it is immoral to displace people from their homeland.

    Indeed, it is very immoral, and many left-wing Zionist political parties would agree with you. Infact, you share much of the same principles, only you seem unaware of that.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    I agree with you on this one.

    On the other point, I think you are confusing people who are opposed to Zionism, with anti-Semites, and I know there are a lot of anti-Semites in the world.

    Your argument is basically-

    anti-Semites are also anti-Zionists (true)
    therefore, anti-Zionists are also anti-Semites (not true)

    there are far, far more anti-Zionists in the world, including Jewish anti-Zionists, than there are anti-Semites.

    Your argument doesn't follow and its a cheap way of labelling people opposed to Jewish oppression of Palestinians, as anti-Semites.
    No it's not, if you'd read my first post in this thread, you'll notice the use of the word "most"
 
 
 
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