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Is "classism" only wrong since society says so? watch

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    In all societies, there is a differentiation between orders. This is natural. So isn't "classism" just an expression of "unfairness" (lmao...when was life ever fair?) or envy from the lower orders towards the top orders?

    Granted, the existence of classes may undermine an individual's freedom, nonetheless as long as people hold the liberty to move classes, why then is class some kind of inherent "evil"?
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    Class inherently restricts the ability to move up or down the societal scale - it makes assumptions about you depending on your parents, the environment of your upbringing and the people you associate with. People never move classes, they simply move up or down in societal status depending on how much money they have.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Class inherently restricts the ability to move up or down the societal scale - it makes assumptions about you depending on your parents, the environment of your upbringing and the people you associate with. People never move classes, they simply move up or down in societal status depending on how much money they have.
    so, why is this a bad thing? hierarchy is innate to man.
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    I can't remember anyone ever saying it was a bad thing...?
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    In all societies, there is a differentiation between orders. This is natural.
    why then is class some kind of inherent "evil"?
    Most systems of ethics conform to principlism; do only good, maintain free will, share out social benefits etc. The class system suppressses people, causing them to suffer and denies them what others have in terms of money and oppurtunities. Therefore, according to principlism the class system is wrong as it doesn't match the criteria.
    Also, because something is natural doesn't mean it's good. For example, rape is a natural way of impregnating women to ensure that genesare passed on. Consent just gets in the way of evolution. And murder is a natural response to competition for mating and threat to survival but society needs ethics to curb our 'natural' responses so we don't all kill each other and let the ants take over.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Class inherently restricts the ability to move up or down the societal scale - it makes assumptions about you depending on your parents, the environment of your upbringing and the people you associate with. People never move classes, they simply move up or down in societal status depending on how much money they have.
    Though there is such as thing as a class cycle. The children of people who are lower in the social order are more likely to stay in that social order too.

    The children of people in the higher order are likely to stay within that class due to better educational standards and the lower likelihood of turning to crime.

    Class and environment are very important when describing the structure of society but they are used wrongly and too generally these days, even in top quality newspaper articles and books.
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    if we lived in a world where we all lived according to what we want and not what society says is right or wrong, we would be living in a whole different,
    personally i think classes are a good thing
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Class inherently restricts the ability to move up or down the societal scale - it makes assumptions about you depending on your parents, the environment of your upbringing and the people you associate with. People never move classes, they simply move up or down in societal status depending on how much money they have.
    Another very good post from Aphotic Cosmos. I probably take the opposite position to you in what is desirable but that's an excellent explanation of what is.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Class inherently restricts the ability to move up or down the societal scale - it makes assumptions about you depending on your parents, the environment of your upbringing and the people you associate with. People never move classes, they simply move up or down in societal status depending on how much money they have.
    Ähm... you know: Professors belong to one of the highest social classes and don't have that much money usually.


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    By the way, in my opinion classes are a good thing.
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    In all societies, there is a differentiation between orders. This is natural. So isn't "classism" just an expression of "unfairness" (lmao...when was life ever fair?) or envy from the lower orders towards the top orders?

    Granted, the existence of classes may undermine an individual's freedom, nonetheless as long as people hold the liberty to move classes, why then is class some kind of inherent "evil"?
    Isn't everything only 'wrong' because society says so???
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    (Original post by patientology)
    Ähm... you know: Professors belong to one of the highest social classes and don't have that much money usually.


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    By the way, in my opinion classes are a good thing.
    I wouldn't say that professors, and less senior lecturers/researchers to an extent, hold one of the highest social classes - they merely hold one that is respected within the social hierarchy from both below [middle and working classes] and above [upper classes] as they are in the unique position of being able to advance their societal standing through the near-universally respected goal of pursuing knowledge and discovery, rather than the more ambiguous and disputed accruing of material wealth and profit.

    Also - the average salary for a British professor holding a chair is in the order of about £55,000 -£65,000 from the last figures I saw. With or without the added societal standing from their job, that's certainly a figure that will put them above the majority of the population assuming that social standing is derived from material wealth.
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    (Original post by patientology)
    Ähm... you know: Professors belong to one of the highest social classes and don't have that much money usually.


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    By the way, in my opinion classes are a good thing.
    since when?
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    (Original post by oodalallyoodalally)
    Most systems of ethics conform to principlism; do only good, maintain free will, share out social benefits etc. The class system suppressses people, causing them to suffer and denies them what others have in terms of money and oppurtunities. Therefore, according to principlism the class system is wrong as it doesn't match the criteria.
    Also, because something is natural doesn't mean it's good. For example, rape is a natural way of impregnating women to ensure that genesare passed on. Consent just gets in the way of evolution. And murder is a natural response to competition for mating and threat to survival but society needs ethics to curb our 'natural' responses so we don't all kill each other and let the ants take over.
    OK, so according to some abstract moral principle, we shouldn't have hierarchy? I never insinuated that what is natural is good, i merely state that in all societies, the ones with breeding naturally rule over/control the scrotes.
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    (Original post by Asha5692)
    Isn't everything only 'wrong' because society says so???
    Only if moral relativism is fact, which there is no evidence of at all.
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    In all societies, there is a differentiation between orders. This is natural. So isn't "classism" just an expression of "unfairness" (lmao...when was life ever fair?) or envy from the lower orders towards the top orders?

    Granted, the existence of classes may undermine an individual's freedom, nonetheless as long as people hold the liberty to move classes, why then is class some kind of inherent "evil"?
    'Classism' is just an excuse to have a go at people who have more money then you...
    In this day and age people have the political and social freedom to transgress these so called 'class boundaries'...:yep:
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    OK, so according to some abstract moral principle, we shouldn't have hierarchy? I never insinuated that what is natural is good, i merely state that in all societies, the ones with breeding naturally rule over/control the scrotes....
    so, why is this a bad thing? hierarchy is innate to man.
    Hey just providing you with one system of ethics. Never said it was the only one but it's what a lot people think of as right or wrong.
    There's also ultilitanarianism, where the moral thing is the one that provides the most amount of pleasure for the most people, this also views it as wrong.
    I'm sure if you look around you can find a system that surpports it.
    Abstract moral principle is right and wrong. Ethical codes are just organised versions of the way people think about good and bad.
    It seems that you're questioning our society's view of the class system because it is innate or natural. Which is a logical question because maybe it does benefit our species by focusing resources to make sure as least some people get to avoid the struggle for survival and will always survive. And other societies have class systems that are rather more accepted i.e. the caste system so it is just ours and several other egalitarian societies that say it's wrong but you didn't ask about whether it was logical (which i have to say it more or less is) you asked if it is was wrong and you'd be hard pressed to find an argument for it's morality.
    It's been fun to debate
 
 
 
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