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Why in the UK is a life sentence, not for life? Watch

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    (Original post by Teh User)
    This is why I don't like referendums. It shows how silly the population can be sometimes. Example: Proposition 8, Swiss Minaret Ban etc

    3 strikes is desperately unfair to a person brought up wrong and shown bad ways without being rehabilitated or helped.
    Aw my heart bleeds. and more than 3 strikes is fair to the people who get raped, assaulted, or killed by those people?

    You're right, having people with over 50 convictions running around still committing crimes is clearly much better.
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    (Original post by creak)
    That's worked really well in California, hasn't it?
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    Aw my heart bleeds. and more than 3 strikes is fair to the people who get raped, assaulted, or killed by those people?

    You're right, having people with over 50 convictions running around still committing crimes is clearly much better.
    50 Convictions I can see your point, however THREE strikes is not enough. Your point of view of the justice system is not what the justice system intends.

    It intends Rehabilitation, Reparation, Deterrence and Protection of the Public, not 'Lock up the criminal, he stole a bag of sweets!'

    The death penalty and three strikes will not kill off someone who is desperate or is led down the wrong path and it's unfair on them just to target the few people who are genuinely gleeful criminals who know they can get away with things, and even then, it doesn't kill them off totally.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    Oh look, a decline before 3 strikes, and it's started to rise again.

    That graph is inconclusive.
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    (Original post by HDS)
    I don't believe in rehabilitation.


    I've yet to see any proper offender be rehabilitated.
    You know, the ones who get rehabilitated don't get in the news
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    The poor folk who go round murdering and raping people don't deserve to go to prison. It's not their fault. It's because they are ill and have suffered social alienation and major economic deprivation. They are the real victims. They are not responsible for their actions so they should be rewarded with a get out of jail free card. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    The victims are the real culprits and don't deserve justice because they don't know what it's like to be poor and mentally unstable. If anything they deserved to be raped and murdered because they were middle class. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Teh User)
    Oh look, a decline before 3 strikes, and it's started to rise again.

    That graph is inconclusive.
    It still shows a massive decrease in crime, which is likely at least in part due to 3 strikes.

    Secondly when Giuliani became major of New York city in 1993 he implimented a zero tolerance approach and guess what? Crime fell massively (44 percent drop in overall crime and a 61 percent drop in murder) and New York city became the safest large city in America. Looks like softly, softly doesn't work.

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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    It still shows a massive decrease in crime, which is likely at least in part due to 3 strikes.

    Secondly when Giuliani became major of New York city in 1993 he implimented a zero tolerance approach and guess what? Crime fell massively (44 percent drop in overall crime and a 61 percent drop in murder) and New York city became the safest large city in America. Looks like softly, softly doesn't work.

    This is absolutely correct about New York. There was a good article I was reading some time ago, I will try to find it.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle407900.ece
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    It still shows a massive decrease in crime, which is likely at least in part due to 3 strikes.

    Secondly when Giuliani became major of New York city in 1993 he implimented a zero tolerance approach and guess what? Crime fell massively (44 percent drop in overall crime and a 61 percent drop in murder) and New York city became the safest large city in America. Looks like softly, softly doesn't work.

    It might not work very well, but that's because prison here simply doesn't work for most people. I agree prison should be toughened up, but you cannot seriously expect that deprivation of liberty for that amount of time for say, stealing bread for a desperate family three times is fair and just.

    I personally blame the education system here. In other European states, their sentences are softer and the crime rates are far lower regardless. Hence they're doing something right that the UK and the U.S isn't doing right, because stricter punishments for light crimes just places fear into the population, and I don't want people governed by fear.
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    Because there are too many poncey PC ***** who think rehabilitation is worth it. **** off, can't you tell some people are a waste of time. The Nazis had the right ideas at times and I wish you would realise it rather than listen to any poofy PC twaddle.
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    (Original post by Smiles_m)
    Not sure what to say to this .
    I'm ashamed to say it made me laugh.
    'lol' is the usual response, but i can't blame you for being a little incoherent, not after seeing the look on the young guy's face.

    it's a mix between :o:, :mad: and :confused:
    not a good look.
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    (Original post by Teh User)
    It might not work very well, but that's because prison here simply doesn't work for most people. I agree prison should be toughened up, but you cannot seriously expect that deprivation of liberty for that amount of time for say, stealing bread for a desperate family three times is fair and just.

    I personally blame the education system here. In other European states, their sentences are softer and the crime rates are far lower regardless. Hence they're doing something right that the UK and the U.S isn't doing right, because stricter punishments for light crimes just places fear into the population, and I don't want people governed by fear.
    Well of course it doesn't when you give them sky tv and whatever else. It shouldn't be a place you want to ever return to but it's clear that criminals aren't that put off by it to rack up 50 convictions (with many jail sentences) in Britain.

    Want to see something really interesting? Especially given your last sentence:



    The US comes below all of them with:
    Total Violent Crimes: 1,408,337
    Rate per 100,000: 466
    (source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_01.html )

    Yet you claim they're not doing it right? Despite many of the countries in that little table being European?

    It's worth checking out that fbi link actually - US has really been cracking down on crime and it's quite clear that it's having a very positive effect.
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    (Original post by Smiles_m)
    That's what I said originally, not for people who say kill their partner in a fight (terrible as it is) I believe that they can be rehabilitated. But his actions seem so alien and devious that I couldn't imagine anyone like him being able to behave normally.

    In my opinion he is a psychopath because he seems unable to empathise so why would he ever view someone elses life as valuable?
    Well, if he is a psychopath then it's not "his" fault.. does he deserve to die because he was born with a certain mindset? Who are WE to DECIDE who can live or die?
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    (Original post by Bobifier)
    You know, the ones who get rehabilitated don't get in the news


    Debateable.


    Stanley Williams.



    It's rare though.


    Granted by that I'm contradicting myself but oh well... i guess i just proved I do know some rehabilitated ones.


    Go me.:rolleyes:





    That said. I still support capital punishment.

    Ed Gein.
    John Wayne Gacy.
    Ted Kaczynski.
    Charles Manson.
    Kenneth Bianchi.
    Jeffrey Dahmer.
    Robert Hansen.
    Ted Bundy.


    Oh, and most of Zoe Pound.
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    (Original post by kevin_123)
    Well, if he is a psychopath then it's not "his" fault.. does he deserve to die because he was born with a certain mindset? Who are WE to DECIDE who can live or die?


    Mindset != action.


    What you said is the equivalent to considering all pedofiles to be child molesters to borrow an example from another thread.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    Well of course it doesn't when you give them sky tv and whatever else. It shouldn't be a place you want to ever return to but it's clear that criminals aren't that put off by it to rack up 50 convictions (with many jail sentences) in Britain.

    Want to see something really interesting? Especially given your last sentence:



    The US comes below all of them with:
    Total Violent Crimes: 1,408,337
    Rate per 100,000: 466
    (source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_01.html )

    Yet you claim they're not doing it right? Despite many of the countries in that little table being European?

    It's worth checking out that fbi link actually - US has really been cracking down on crime and it's quite clear that it's having a very positive effect.
    This despite the fact that the crime rate has been falling since before Nu Labour came into power, or rather after the Tories gave up on using harsher sentencing and experimental cumultative sentencing?
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    because its still not been updated to modern times and the fact that human rights folk think its wrong and against someones human rights

    there should be tougher sentencing either that or do what they used to do in the olden days in the tower of london etc
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    I argued and argued with people about not bringing back the Death Penalty via a topic on this forum.

    For this specific case I would love to have him brutally murdered himself the sick, evil *******.
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    Why does everyone always think they're in a better position to decide on appropriate sentencing than an experienced judge with a reasonable amount of discretion who witnessed the trial, has personal access to the defendant, and will have read numerous pre-sentencing reports on the matter?

    I'm not saying that judges are always infallible, but unless you've got more to say than [paraphrased] "This is wrong", they're probably going to be a better authority than you.
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    Her son looks a bit like a murderer too...
 
 
 
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