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'I'll die here', said tortured boy Watch

  • View Poll Results: What sentence do you think the attackers should face?
    Capital Punishment
    89
    23.54%
    Life Imprisonment
    97
    25.66%
    A jail term with psychiatric help - released at some point when theyre 'deemed safe'
    129
    34.13%
    Psychiatric Hospital until 'deemed safe'
    45
    11.90%
    Put back into foster care with more qualified parents and on-hand psychiatric help
    14
    3.70%
    Other... (Speicify in thread)
    4
    1.06%

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    (Original post by Alexio)
    Again, I'm not sure it's about 'fixing problems' but rather getting rid of the problems we have. As Trigger said, however, it's a slippery slope.

    Also, yet again, I agree with you on your second point, it certainly would compromise our Humanity. But they have already compromised theirs, so is it really up to us to have to take the noble route and allow them a new life?

    Mind-blowing stuff, this.
    Mind blowing stuff indeed.

    The thing is, i don't think we would be getting rid of any problems by killing these kids. We would have got rid of what was once the root of a single isolated problem, but the damage has been done. However i agree, is it really worth taking to noble route for kids who are clearly the scum of the earth?

    I think that we should always try and take the noble route. It may be a completely deontological stance to take (by deontological i mean a way of thinking that relies on principals rather than cause and effect) but i feel that if we start being flexible, it could be disasterous.

    I mean, do you really trust other humans with the ability to kill those that it deemed to be unfit to live? I wouldn't even trust myself with that kind of responsibility.
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    (Original post by Bslforever)
    You are rather argumentative today...

    It may appear to be a slippery slope argument, but the entire legal system would have started off as a potentially slippery slope argument, and i can imagine there were hoardes of people like yourself at the beginning of formal law who said rubbish like "aha, but how do you define a thief? What if he steals to feed his starving family? What if he steals from the rich to give to the poor - you wouldnt put robin hood in prison would you!??" Until the law dug there heels in and set a definition. This is how an argument that appears to be a slippery slope takes shape and becomes logical. We dig our heels in and provide a comprehensive definition, accepting that it might not be perfect, but pragmatically, it is the best we can do.
    Im rather argumentative everyday :cool: and yes you have a point but i was also making a point. The phrase "people like them" is very vague.
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    (Original post by inspired14)
    You say to 'execute the *******s', yet you then go on to say that killing is wrong? Looking at my previous comments on this thread, I clearly believe that these children are monsters and should never be allowed back into society. But at the same time, you simply cannot condemn killing or torturing through the killing of someone else. Yes, they should be locked away with a life sentence that actually means life sentence. But killed? Is that not just teaching society that it is right to kill, if done so through an act or revenge or justice?

    I find it hard to understand how 11 year old does not know that killing and torturing is wrong. He clearly realised what he was doing especially when he said "it was tight"...
    I think execute them, why should the taxpayer pay for those murderous ********s? Why should they be gone to prison, given free education, paid to play monoply? Why? Execute them. Why can't we send them to Saudi Arabia? That is what we should do with murderers, paedos, etc... send them to Saudi Arabia. They will be taken care of there.
    I find it ironic, for all it's problems, at least in Saudi Arabia, you can walk down the street and feel safe in the sense that no one is going to attack you etc... and yet here, especially on friday night we have thugs getting plastered looking for a fight...
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    What they did was absolutely horrific and unforgivable but killing them won't solve their problems, the victims problems or societies problems. It will achieve nothing.
    Killing them is not the solution although putting them in young offenders institutions and letting them free with brand new identities (like the Bulger murderers) is highly questionable too.

    Having said that, it would be interesting to know whether Venables and Thompson and people who have done similar crimes (and gone on to be released) have ever commited any offences after their rehabilitation and release and whether those crimes were as dreadful as their original offences.

    If it can be proven then rehab and new identities actually works then I would approve.

    But if it doesn't work then I would argue that they ought to spend the rest of their days behind bars. I don't, however, condone putting people to death.
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    (Original post by Alexio)
    Yeah it was a cop-out, :P Id like to know what you think a reasonable extent' would be, however I understand you are tired.
    Also, I have no idea where to start either, which is why I rely on qualified Judges!

    For one, life-imprisonment is better than capital punishment because it doesn't involve state-sanctioned killing. If we do it properly though, no teles, crap food, etc. It's a pretty good punishment.



    I think (not sure) that in Law there is a difference between material crime and crimes against Humans.
    Obviously, as long as no-one is hurt in the process, robbing a house or a car is classed as material crime and is therefore less serious than a crime against a human (which I think is usually physical). So I don;'t think it would ever get that far.
    Life imprisonment is as good as death in my eyes.
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    (Original post by 4G_dollars)
    I find it hard to understand how 11 year old does not know that killing and torturing is wrong. He clearly realised what he was doing especially when he said "it was tight"...
    I think execute them, why should the taxpayer pay for those murderous ********s? Why should they be gone to prison, given free education, paid to play monoply? Why? Execute them. Why can't we send them to Saudi Arabia? That is what we should do with murderers, paedos, etc... send them to Saudi Arabia. They will be taken care of there.
    I find it ironic, for all it's problems, at least in Saudi Arabia, you can walk down the street and feel safe in the sense that no one is going to attack you etc... and yet here, especially on friday night we have thugs getting plastered looking for a fight...
    is this what happens when you commit GBH? Wicked :woo:
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Violence is bad... let's murder two children to sort it out. Clever.
    It is incredibly clever, removes the chance that they will commit once again. Plus they are morally evil and do not deserve humanity.
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    Im rather argumentative everyday :cool: and yes you have a point but i was also making a point. The phrase "people like them" is very vague.
    Fair enough Yes, "people like them" is a very vauge term, but i think in this context, it is pretty clear that what Alexio meant was people like those in the OP who were clearly, undoubtedly unfit for civilian life.
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    Capital punishment just because life imprisonment dosen't mean life and they would be out in at least twenty years. And what they did was unforgivable.
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    (Original post by Bslforever)
    Mind blowing stuff indeed.

    The thing is, i don't think we would be getting rid of any problems by killing these kids. We would have got rid of what was once the root of a single isolated problem, but the damage has been done. However i agree, is it really worth taking to noble route for kids who are clearly the scum of the earth?

    I think that we should always try and take the noble route. It may be a completely deontological stance to take (by deontological i mean a way of thinking that relies on principals rather than cause and effect) but i feel that if we start being flexible, it could be disasterous.

    I mean, do you really trust other humans with the ability to kill those that it deemed to be unfit to live? I wouldn't even trust myself with that kind of responsibility.
    I agree that we should stick by core principles.
    If everyone stuck by core principles, we'd live in a bloody good world.

    And yet, if sticking by these principles means that people like this walk free among us...well, it will require a lot of thinking before I can sort that out to myself!
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    at the end of the day theyre just children, and theyre actions are undeniably a direct result of the exposure theyve had to violence, drugs and crime at the hands of their parents. if bought up in that kind of environment can they really be held responsible for their actions? a fundamental misunderstanding of right and wrong, and a warped sense of what can be called entertainment is not a product of their own fancy, its a result of the corrupt morals instilled in them by their parents and exacerbated by their choice of lifestyle.
    These children dont need a death sentance, or a life sentance, or any sentance at all. they need to be placed in a loving family with on-going psychological help, in the hope that the damage that 10 or so years in their current 'family' has caused can be undone.
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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    I don't know how the suffering of the two boys is going to make them feel better. They will still suffer regardless, so it seems pointless to take their feelings into account. The main focus should be on how can we reduce future suffering, and the only way that can happen is if the two children are rehabilitated.

    I don't know how you can blame the children for showing no remorse. If they've never been taught what's right and wrong, how are they suppose to know? It isn't instinctive as different societies have different values, therefore they must be socialised adequately for them to understand. There were obviously other factors involved but I think people are responding far too harshly to their crime when you take into account their background.
    When I say suffering, I mean life imprisonment and not actual physical suffering. It would sure make me feel better knowing that these dangerous children were locked away, preventing them from destroying another child's life. Indeed, I agree with you that these boys must have been through an awful childhood and their parents are to blame, yet a child still knows that inflicting suffering on to another is WRONG regardless of what their 'taught values' have been.
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    (Original post by Trigger)
    Life imprisonment is as good as death in my eyes.
    Well if you would be so kind to tell us what your ideal punishment/treatment for these boys would be, we may be able to discuss it.

    Life imprisonment is better than them ever walking free, in my eyes.
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    It frightens me that the majority of people think they should either get capital punishment or life.



    **** me.


    I support capital punishment but only in the most grievous cases, to call for capital punishment for this is idiotic.
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    this is tough stuff...some people argue that, as children, it was not their fault they behaved in that way, the social conditioning they experienced was fault of the adults on charge, or not as the case may be. in my personal opinion, i believe the offenders should be given psychiatric help, as it is never too late to change. death penalty is absolutely out of the question, i strongly disagree with that.
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    (Original post by Alexio)
    I agree that we should stick by core principles.
    If everyone stuck by core principles, we'd live in a bloody good world.

    And yet, if sticking by these principles means that people like this walk free among us...well, it will require a lot of thinking before I can sort that out to myself!
    Ahh i love this post. This is really interesting. You recognise that if we all lived on principal and had a deontological law system, we would all live in a "bloody good world", but then you also realise that a system like this would inevitabely have its weaknesses and loopholes, and wish that sometimes we could be more flexible.

    Thats the sad choice that our legal system constantly faces.
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    Absolutely harrowing. You have to remember that emotion is kept out of the judicial system, though.
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    (Original post by Alexio)
    Well if you would be so kind to tell us what your ideal punishment/treatment for these boys would be, we may be able to discuss it.

    Life imprisonment is better than them ever walking free, in my eyes.
    Yeah you already asked me that and i already told you. I am starting to feel some of you are really forgetting exactly what happened here. You are talking as if they went and raped than ate some babies.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Violence is bad... let's murder two children to sort it out. Clever.
    So keeping psychos like this alive is better? For what, taking up taxpayers money? Getting rid of them would be PREVENTING more violence..
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    I can't believe a quarter of you would willingly kill 2 children. They were messed up from the start, they never had a chance. They were never taught a shred of morality or empathy from their parents, but with prolific psychiatric help they could become 'safe' citizens.
 
 
 
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