Turn on thread page Beta

"Liberal law sees citizens as aggressors, criminals as victims " watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    [Cases such as Munir Hussain, Tony Martin, and Myleene Klass]What this and other cases have conveyed to the public is that, if they have the misfortune to be held up in their homes and are facing the possibility of murder or rape, they have to weigh up their instinct to escape against the prospect of incurring a prison sentence if they harm their attackers. What kind of a dilemma is that? Answer: it is the classic predicament of an innocent citizen who has the misfortune to live in a “liberal”, politically correct society.

    The presumption in PC circles is that a criminal – any criminal – is a victim. From the outset, therefore, he is vested with a moral superiority over the non-criminal. The householder being burgled, the pedestrian being mugged, may be model citizens; their persecutor may carry a knife or gun, he may be bent on murder, torture, robbery or rape – but, in the liberal perspective, he is the goody. He is the disadvantaged victim of a capitalist, racist, uncaring society; so the laws of the land must be recalibrated to protect him from the citizenry – the baddies – who expose him to unreasonable temptation by owning houses or mobile telephones or handbags.

    Lunatic though it may be, that is the mentality of the bleeding-heart liberal do-gooders who have made Britain a haven for criminals and a nightmare for ordinary people. In every area of life where the law and the politically correct police have jurisdiction – and nowadays that is just about everywhere – this inversion of natural justice has artificially been engineered. It must all be reversed. Massive repeal of existing laws and enactment of new legislation will be required.

    The Victorians had the right idea, with their unapologetic labelling of society’s enemies as the “criminal classes” and their unsentimental penal system. The hue-and-cry “Stop thief!” that alerted crowds of people to pursue and apprehend a criminal reflected a social consensus, a solidarity among the law-abiding. That was before the abolition of capital punishment offered an inducement to violent criminals to kill their victims, when the police were at the scene of the crime instead of on “diversity awareness” courses and, when they arrived, they arrested the perpetrator rather than the victim. Reversing this legalised anarchy will be a task for The Government After Dave.
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ge...ls-as-victims/

    Agree diagree?

    ...waits for the foaming at the mouth liberals....
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Agree diagree?

    ...waits for the foaming at the mouth liberals....
    I disagree, I'd say that it's ensuring that people who only commit "minor" crimes aren't killed, that's excessive. In our society the key words are "excessive force", if someone was coming at you with a knife, and you hada shotgun (+ license) with you, for example you were hunting, you'd be within your rights to shoot them. But if someone was on your land without your permission you wouldn't!
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    I'd say that that was a fair summary of liberal thinking. I commend its author for both its accuracy and insight.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    The fact of the matter is these cases (Munir Hussein, Tony Martin ect) are the extremist exception rather than the norm. Which is why they have recieved such intense media exposure.
    It's worth noting that in more conservative parts of the world (eg: Texas, Georgia) where theres no "liberal law" and the death penalty is still legal, crime rates are much higher across the board for everything from theft to homicide. So to state returning back to the Victorian Ideal would be nothing but foolishness.

    Also you get things like this going on, something any sane individual with an inch of empathy in their hearts would agree is infinitely worse than any of the travesties that the British Judical System has been responsible for over the last few decades.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    As Michael Portillo said last night on This Week, what concerns me most is the way ill-informed public opinion has swayed the result of the appeal trial so much that they came to a completely different conclusion to the first trial.

    Most of the people I spoke to who were up in arms about the first trial had only read the headline and hadn't bothered reading the details.

    Clearly it wasn't self-defence; clearly Mr Hussain is a complete psycho; clearly he should be in jail.

    However we appear to have let the editors of the Daily Mail decide the outcome of this case, which is very, very worrying.

    Tony Martin was another nutter - read what he actually did, rather than just the headlines in the right wing press.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Well I'm a bleeding heart liberal but I don't see citizens as aggressors. Nor do I see criminals as "goody"s.
    That seems to be something largely made up by people who want a justice system based on revenge and disproportionate punishment, and read altogether too many right wing newspapers.

    Articles like this skip over the fact that plenty of liberals are also law abiding citizens and can also be the victims of crime. Liberals feel the effects of crime too. Doesn't mean I want to kill someone for breaking into my house. That just doesn't seem fair.

    I believe in proportional and useful punishment. That's not something that the Victorians had. They hung 12 year olds for stealing. Empathy for the criminal in some cases does not mean you don't have a greater sympathy for the victim.

    I would say most liberals are just more interested in a punishing in proportionate, reformative and utilitarian way. There is not some evil motive for this. It's just trying to be the most understanding and fair towards all parties, and do what is best for society. People with different opinions often don't seem to accept that there is no evil motive/bias for liberal attitudes so they make up a bias or an evil incentive, when it doesn't really exist.

    Sorry I have not phrased this well at all.


    Another thing:
    I often hear people saying "he broke the law so he has to accept whatever punishment is coming, regardless of how disproportionate that punishment is, or any extenuating circumstances" - for instance with regard to that man who was executed for drug possession in China.

    Oddly the very same people do not apply this rule to vigilantes who use excessive force on minor criminals.

    (I'm not going to comment on either scenario, just a little hypo-criticism which I have noticed)
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    A totally agree. If a person enters another home with the intention of stealing from them and quite probably harming them then I believe they deserve everything that they get. If they weren't attempting to nick anything then they wouldn't have been battered, shot, etc.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Yeah **** it, why not. arrest black babies before they become criminals
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Someone mugs me or my home, I'll batter them senseless. And enjoy it. I'll just make sure the force my pimp slap doesn't leave them brain damaged or dead so the retards in the Crown Court don't bang me up for 8 years and order me to pay said aggressor compensation.

    Because if you don't teach these dregs of society a lesson, they'll only re-offend time and again. Liberalism doesn't work.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dude Where's My Username)
    Someone mugs me or my home, I'll batter them senseless. And enjoy it. I'll just make sure the force my pimp slap doesn't leave them brain damaged or dead so the retards in the Crown Court don't bang me up for 8 years and order me to pay said aggressor compensation.

    Because if you don't teach these dregs of society a lesson, they'll only re-offend time and again. Liberalism doesn't work.
    hmm mugging a building? Or do you live inside someone? :curious:
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    Can anyone here defend the rights of the victim of burglary to chase down the burglar to a nearby street, and beat him to the point that he is a vegetable with a cricket bat?

    I'm just trying to get some semblance of how stupid people really are.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    i'm torn to be honest, maybe we are all victims of minor due to being forced to steal to survive, but if sombidy rapes/kills somebody then we can conclude that they are just "not the victim", hell they did not need to rape to survive!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I think the OP has been caught up in the Nostalgia that is often evoked by the right-wing newspapers. I suppose they would like to go back to a simpler time, when it was okay to hang a servant or slave if they stole jewllery or food - A society where the punishment was dis-proportionate to the crime, and in many cases, more brutal and savage.

    This was not a society of solodarity; it was a hotbed of violence, where mob-rule had the final say.

    It is the right of every citizen to a fair and balanced trial.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    You dont have to be liberal to realise that vengeance/vigilantism does not fit into the rule of law. Labelling the "criminal classes" actually gave way to the theory that labelling the underclasses exacerbates crime.


    "It must all be reversed. Massive repeal of existing laws and enactment of new legislation will be required." - No because the common law is socially progressive
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MSB)
    I'd say that that was a fair summary of liberal thinking. I commend its author for both its accuracy and insight.
    QFT.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Yeah we need to ditch the bleeding heart liberal crap and adopt the brilliant Saudi Arabian punishment system.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drew.)
    Yeah we need to ditch the bleeding heart liberal crap and adopt the brilliant Saudi Arabian punishment system.
    Right, because it's either public beheading's or punishing victims for defending themselves...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Right, because it's either public beheading's or punishing victims for defending themselves, you sir are nothing less than a genius. Saudi Arabia is the way forward, and it's time that underground liberal elite got a taste of it. Islam4UK is just the beginning, I'm off to spark even greater causes by the one and true god. And him/her alone.
    Woah, steady on there...
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BeanofJelly)
    revenge and disproportionate punishment
    Why do you get to decide what's proportionate?
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    I regard myself as being fairly liberal-minded, but I do believe I have the right to defend myself and my property. If someone breaks into my house and threatens me, I believe I have the right to threaten him back. I believe in measure-for-measure sort of stuff basically- if he steals something from my house then he is damaging my property, so I should have the right to go shoot his car outside with a gun and damage it. If he shoots at me, I have the right to blow his head off, and if he tries to stab me, then I have the right to gouge his eyes out with a fork.

    I should NOT have the right to kill him just for breaking in, or for only threatening me, but anything he does, or makes a swrious attempt to do, to me or my family, should be something I'm allowed to do back to him.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 25, 2010
The home of Results and Clearing

2,170

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.