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    (Original post by Ilora-Danon)
    Because men aren't shoving 6lbs of human through their vaginas because, they don't have vaginas.

    No vagina = not your decision to make!
    In that case, you have the right to give birth to it. You don't have the right to make the father pay for the child you've decided you wanted.

    (Original post by EskimoJo)
    Men shouldn't have to pay for a child they didn't want. If they decide at a later time that they want to get back into the child's life and/or have any rights over the child, the mother must agree and he should have to pay back payments. IMO.
    I agreed with everything you said until the back payments bit. Why is a child's life all about money?
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    because its the womans body, end of

    i do think that if a man doesnt want it he shouldnt have to pay for it i also think if the man does want it and the woman doesnt then she has every right to get rid
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    (Original post by Skye333)
    I mean if people are at the age many are who get abortions, teenagers. They would be sacrifcing education... to look after the child - at least a little bit. I don't been it's a punishment lol
    Teenagers account for like 10% of abortions, try again...
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    (Original post by Ilora-Danon)
    Because men aren't shoving 6lbs of human through their vaginas because, they don't have vaginas.

    No vagina = not your decision to make!
    I think it's absolutely horrendous that you think it's acceptable to reduce a massive, life-changing decision that will permanently derail the lives of both people to such an immature reasoning.
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    I think it's absolutely horrendous that you think it's acceptable to reduce a massive, life-changing decision that will permanently derail the lives of both people to such an immature reasoning.
    :yep:
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    I think it's absolutely horrendous that you think it's acceptable to reduce a massive, life-changing decision that will permanently derail the lives of both people to such an immature reasoning.
    its true though, its the womans decision
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    (Original post by tinktinktinkerbell)
    its true though, its the womans decision
    WHY is it true? I have yet to see a decent, deductive reasoning for WHY it's true. All I've seen is 'It's my vagina, nananana, I'm in charge of what goes in and out of my vagina, nananana.'

    Given the magnitude and seriousness of the issue, this is not good enough.

    Pregnancy lasts 9 months. Labour lasts a few hours. The responsibility of bearing a child lasts at least 18 years, but for the most part, it's a life-time dedication... the father, compared to the mother, has about 9 months less responsibility. When you consider 9 months against 18-40 years, the 'I'm the one that's pregnant so it's my decision', or 'I'm the one that'll be giving birth, so it's my decision' arguments pale into insignificance.

    The fact is that bringing a child into the world affects the woman's life, and the man's life, for as long as they shall live. The woman's measly 9 months extra is of complete insignificance when considered against this, and therefore to use those excuses to claim the final word is pathetic.
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    Uhmm, because she's the one that has to carry it for nine months, the one that has to spend hours in horrific pain pushing it out her crotch and the one that has to do most of the looking after it for the next 18 years. Men can easily walk away from it at any time they choose.
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    WHY is it true? I have yet to see a decent, deductive reasoning for WHY it's true. All I've seen is 'It's my vagina, nananana, I'm in charge of what goes in and out of my vagina, nananana.'

    Given the magnitude and seriousness of the issue, this is not good enough.

    Pregnancy lasts 9 months. Labour lasts a few hours. The responsibility of bearing a child lasts at least 18 years, but for the most part, it's a life-time dedication... the father, compared to the mother, has about 9 months less responsibility. When you consider 9 months against 18-40 years, the 'I'm the one that's pregnant so it's my decision', or 'I'm the one that'll be giving birth, so it's my decision' arguments pale into insignificance.

    The fact is that bringing a child into the world affects the woman's life, and the man's life, for as long as they shall live. The woman's measly 9 months extra is of complete insignificance when considered against this, and therefore to use those excuses to claim the final word is pathetic.

    you can not force someone to do something with their body that they dont want to do even if it is just for 9 months and so many hours
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    WHY is it true? I have yet to see a decent, deductive reasoning for WHY it's true. All I've seen is 'It's my vagina, nananana, I'm in charge of what goes in and out of my vagina, nananana.'

    Given the magnitude and seriousness of the issue, this is not good enough.

    Pregnancy lasts 9 months. Labour lasts a few hours. The responsibility of bearing a child lasts at least 18 years, but for the most part, it's a life-time dedication... the father, compared to the mother, has about 9 months less responsibility. When you consider 9 months against 18-40 years, the 'I'm the one that's pregnant so it's my decision', or 'I'm the one that'll be giving birth, so it's my decision' arguments pale into insignificance.

    The fact is that bringing a child into the world affects the woman's life, and the man's life, for as long as they shall live. The woman's measly 9 months extra is of complete insignificance when considered against this, and therefore to use those excuses to claim the final word is pathetic.
    Firstly, this is about ABORTION not about bringing a child into the world and raising it.

    The decision and the end of the day is the woman's. Until you've experienced pregnancy and childbirth for yourself (which you never will and be thankful for that) you have absolutely NO RIGHT to compare 'a few hours of labour' to 18 years of raising a child. That completely undermines what women go through during the 9 months and however many hours of childbirth - my mum went through 24 hours of labour with my sister.

    I've said this before, until men can fully understand what it's like to be pregnant and give birth, they are not qualified to be the decider in whether or not a woman continues with a pregnancy or not.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Considering the ONS has shown that people have aborted foetuses with cleft palate and webbed feet I would like to know if anyone has been convicted of having an illegal abortion. The law claims it is only legal in certain situations but the reality is very different
    In 2007, a woman was convicted in the north of England of 'child destruction' - as she is believed (although no body was found, or indeed any evidence regarding what actually happened) to have aborted her unborn child at around seven and a half months (so, 30 weeks then?). That is not, however, the usual offence used for illegal abortion historically.

    Although the offence carries a potential life sentence, she was given 12 months suspended. She was young at the time, and by many accounts a bit retarded.
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    (Original post by Ilora-Danon)
    Firstly, this is about ABORTION not about bringing a child into the world and raising it.
    The two are inevitably linked.

    I've said this before, until men can fully understand what it's like to be pregnant and give birth, they are not qualified to be the decider in whether or not a woman continues with a pregnancy or not.
    That's an entirely ludicrous position. Whether abortion should be legal or not is a moral decision, not some matter of understanding "feelings". If I was to be similarly glib, I might suggest that women should have no standing to decide the law on abortion - and perhaps women MPs and doctors should not be allowed to vote on or consent to abortions - as there is too great a risk of self-interest alienating their reason.
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    (Original post by Ilora-Danon)
    Firstly, this is about ABORTION not about bringing a child into the world and raising it.
    Actually, it's about the decision between one or the other, not any one specific route.

    The OP made it clear that the issue in this thread was why is it that the woman's decision over-rides the man's decision, when they are deciding whether to abort their pregnancy, or bring the child into the world. So this can take the form of the man wanting the child, and the woman wanting to abort it, or it can take the form of the man wanting to abort the pregnancy, and the woman wanting to give birth to the child.

    The decision and the end of the day is the woman's. Until you've experienced pregnancy and childbirth for yourself (which you never will and be thankful for that) you have absolutely NO RIGHT to compare 'a few hours of labour' to 18 years of raising a child.
    Haha, get some bloody perspective you twit. Again, you are stating that the decision is the woman's, but you have YET to adequately justify why this should be the case.

    Secondly, if you honestly think 9 months of pregnancy and a few hour of childbirth can compare with the sheer magnitude of change that a child causes for a period of your entire life, you are deluded. I haven't experienced child birth, and I never will, but the fact of the matter is that it is temporary and short, whereas the responsibility of bearing a child is permanent an indefinite.

    That completely undermines what women go through during the 9 months and however many hours of childbirth - my mum went through 24 hours of labour with my sister.
    Again, 9 months + 24 hours of relative discomfort and pain pales into insignificance compared with 40+ of parental responsibility. Ask any woman who has brought up children what the hardest part was - being an incubator, or being a parent, and they will tell you that it is the latter.

    I've said this before, until men can fully understand what it's like to be pregnant and give birth, they are not qualified to be the decider in whether or not a woman continues with a pregnancy or not.
    Sounds like a cheap way for women to guilt trip men into handing over the decision. I'm not buying it.
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    An unwanted pregnancy is nothing a couple of knitting needles and a flight of stairs wont sort out pretty quickly.
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    This is why people should have a conversation before they have sex about what would happen if someone did get pregnant.

    If one is heavily against abortion but the other not so - and would encourage them to have an abortion - then they know how things stand, and if they can't accept the woman's decision then they shouldn'tve had sex with them. (i'm making no comment about contraception as I know that even if you do use contraception things can still go wrong)
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    (Original post by tinktinktinkerbell)
    you can not force someone to do something with their body that they dont want to do even if it is just for 9 months and so many hours
    +1
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    (Original post by L i b)
    In 2007, a woman was convicted in the north of England of 'child destruction' - as she is believed (although no body was found, or indeed any evidence regarding what actually happened) to have aborted her unborn child at around seven and a half months (so, 30 weeks then?). That is not, however, the usual offence used for illegal abortion historically.

    Although the offence carries a potential life sentence, she was given 12 months suspended. She was young at the time, and by many accounts a bit retarded.
    I suspect she's just got picked on because the police have nothing better to do. I seriously doubt that 200,000 abortions a year are for medical reasons. Ideally I'd like to compare how other European countries do with this but there are too many differences in laws on abortion. However, I still get the impression that abortion is on demand. All I say is that the law should reflect this rather than be in denial.
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    (Original post by tinktinktinkerbell)
    you can not force someone to do something with their body that they dont want to do even if it is just for 9 months and so many hours
    But you CAN force somebody to father a child for the REMAINDER OF HIS NATURAL LIFE - a period that is usually far in excess of 9 months and so many hours?
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    (Original post by Melting Sugar.)
    This is why people should have a conversation before they have sex about what would happen if someone did get pregnant.

    If one is heavily against abortion but the other not so - and would encourage them to have an abortion - then they know how things stand, and if they can't accept the woman's decision then they shouldn'tve had sex with them. (i'm making no comment about contraception as I know that even if you do use contraception things can still go wrong)
    Yeah I agree. If my other half was strongly pro-life, I couldnt be with him.
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    But you CAN force somebody to father a child for the REMAINDER OF HIS NATURAL LIFE - a period that is usually far in excess of 9 months and so many hours?

    as i said i think thats wrong, if the mother wants it but the father doesnt then the father should be able to wave all rights to the child, not see it, not have to pay for it etc
 
 
 
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