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    (Original post by wiill)
    i will without a doubt be voting labour, imo gordon brown has the potential to be the best PM ever he just needs closed minded people to realise some things i.e banking crisis/weather/everything under the sun, were NOT his fault!

    Finally someone who is not brainwashed by Politics! Thank you! Lol
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    Compare employment trends with those in the last two recessions under the Tories. In the last two recessions, unemployment continued to rise for much, much longer than it did in this recession - unemployment peaked in 1984 and 1993 at 11.9% and 10.7% respectively. In this recession, unemployment has peaked at 7.9% and is already dropping - you'd barely know its a lagging indicator. Its hard to put that down to anything but government intervention.
    I'd take the employment figures with a pinch of salt to be honest. 904,000 extra people are now employed by the public sector than in 1997, so you cannot make accurate comparisons with tory recessions. And also this time, employers have been a lot more flexible, offering pay cuts and shorter hours rather than firing them on the spot. Some of the government's interventions have been good such as delaying tax payments for businesses etc. but it is not all down to them. You must remember also that we are the only G20 country still in recession.
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    Gordon Brown is an incompetent fool. How there hasn't been a vote of no confidence yet is beyond me. Since Labour came into power 13 years ago, I can't see how my area has improved at all.

    I live 30 miles north of Newcastle that at the moment is getting 5 new schools built I think. Whereas in my town, the one high school we have is a split site and each of the sites is crumbing, but because of our good exam results we don't qualify for a new school to be built. The schools minister visited a couple months ago and told the headteacher and our head boy that the only chance of a new school is for the split site. But he told the press that getting a new school was a top priority. So we don't get a new school but 30 minutes down the road there are academies being built in place of failing schools. I live in the "forgotten county" - we would be better off if Scotland claimed North Northumberland as we sure as hell don't get any use from being part of England here.

    As well as the schools disaster up here. Look at the state of the armed forces accommodation. The state of the barracks for the Army, Navy, and RAF is an absolute disgrace. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were a shambles in terms of organisation of troops. And I'd like to know where the hell the ministers are when the troops are flown back home to RAF Lyneham. But I don't want to get drawn in to an argument about the war.

    My father served in the RAF for nearly 30 years and he has easily been able to tell the difference between when Labour are in power and the Conservatives are in power. The Tories take much better care of the forces than Labour ever have and ever will. If for nothing else, I will support the Tories for that matter alone.
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    (Original post by 554593)
    Labour cares about its people and took our country out of recession which said above, is not an easy job! David Cameron will ruin our country and destroy the economy.

    Maybe, but Labour took our country INTO that recession in the first place, so it's not really worthy of praise.

    If I set fire to your house, but then start putting it out again, would you thank me? Would you renew my contract as your house's dedicated fireman?
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    I would rather have a rabid 9 legged monkey instead of Labour. & if Cameron happens to be that rabid 9 legged monkey, then so be it.
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    To most Labour supporters voting for Labour in a general election is about allegiance,about voting for the party that traditionally supported their views. Obviously with New Labour that is long gone,but with the brilliant effects of our lovely electoral system,its either really vote Labour or Conservative for a vote to matter,and the scars from 20 years of a Conservative government completely ruining this country still run deep,and 10 years of arguably bad New Labour government won't rid people of that,not in the slightest.
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    (Original post by stef.strawbs.123)
    Well Cameron is a right idiot and the most obvious example is that his policy on marriages is completely flawed and if any of you saw Sky News this morning you would have heard one brilliant argument whereby Cameron (Who wasn't present I should note) was made to look like a fool! Hahaha!
    I'm sure anyone can be made to look like an idiot when they're not there to defend themselves.
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    (Original post by JonathanNorth)
    That's because the other countries in the G20 have huge manufacturing industries based in their countries. While the UK is a financial service run economy. Where does this go back to? This goes back to when Margaret Thatcher screwed up our manufacturing industry. We should have been reliant on it and it affects us still today.

    People vote Labour since there is no clear better alternative.

    People are outraged how the system is running at the moment, however what people don't realise is how good they have got it right now.
    Perhaps if Gordon had been more prudent during the boom he'd have had some money left to spend in the recession.

    British manufacturing (or that part of it euthanised by Thatcher) wouldn't have saved us - when Thatcher came to power, much of it was inefficient and heavily reliant on subsidy. That's not the kind of industry that saves an economy. We still have some manufacturing left, believe it or not; we're the world's 6th largest manufacturer. (Hint: This means that we must have more than at least 14 of the G20)

    You might also want to look at the G20 economics and revise your view that manufacturing brought them all out of the recession.

    I repeat, it's people who don't understand economics who vote Labour
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    Labour has definitely shown itself to be socialist, and the enemy of merit and effort - it's fooling everyone. Those working-class people who become middle class will just get punished for being middle class.
    Who allowed the credit crunch and 2008-9 depression to happen? Who has seen in the worst binge drinking, lowest birth rates and worst immigration since the mid-20th century?
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    I've love to see you justify this. Labour's response to the recession has been very effective. Considering how exposed we are to financial crises given our large financial services sector, its pretty damn impressive that the UK economy is predicted by Goldman Sachs to grow by 3.4% next year - 1% more than the US and 1.5% more than Europe. In both the 1980/82 and 91/92 recessions under the Tories, it took 13 quarters for the economy to return to growth.

    Compare employment trends with those in the last two recessions under the Tories. In the last two recessions, unemployment continued to rise for much, much longer than it did in this recession - unemployment peaked in 1984 and 1993 at 11.9% and 10.7% respectively. In this recession, unemployment has peaked at 7.9% and is already dropping - you'd barely know its a lagging indicator. Its hard to put that down to anything but government intervention.
    Yeah, shame they didn't have money to finance all of that. Remind me who burnt the money again?

    The fiscal response has been far outweighed by the monetary response I'm afraid. You can try and credit Labour with this but I really don't think it's a valid claim. As I've hinted, the fiscal response could have been larger, and future cuts smaller, had GB carried a budget surplus into the recession.

    3.4% is a very generous estimate, and even so in part reflects that we've fallen so far and started recovery so much later.
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    VOTE LABOUR Keep Cameron and his cronies out to avoid a repetition of the 1980's/Early 90's.
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    I honestly vote labour because of the tired old excuse: they're better than the toffs in the conservative party and voting lib dem will have little effect. If I could vote for the green party and know they'd get into power i'd do it over again if i could
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    (Original post by usainlightning)
    I'd take the employment figures with a pinch of salt to be honest. 904,000 extra people are now employed by the public sector than in 1997, so you cannot make accurate comparisons with tory recessions. And also this time, employers have been a lot more flexible, offering pay cuts and shorter hours rather than firing them on the spot. Some of the government's interventions have been good such as delaying tax payments for businesses etc. but it is not all down to them. You must remember also that we are the only G20 country still in recession.
    I agree its not all down to them, but its hard to disagree with the proposition that swift action by the government helped to keep unemployment down. You can't explain the 4% difference in peak unemployment between this recession and the last two recessions; nor the fact that unemployment is dropping 2years earlier than it did after the last two recessions, on the basis of part-time working and shorter hours alone.

    We were the last G20 country in recession, but you can't blame Labour for that. London is the world's pre-eminent financial centre, after all. You have also got to remember that we are poised to recover much faster than the US or Europe over the next few years.

    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    Maybe, but Labour took our country INTO that recession in the first place, so it's not really worthy of praise.
    :facepalm:

    You think that a global recession fueled by the U.S. government's subsidising of sub-prime and sparked by the irrational actions of private banks is Labour's fault??? The best government that ever existed in any country ever wouldn't be able to shelter a trading economy from a global recession.

    (Original post by Apagg)
    Perhaps if Gordon had been more prudent during the boom he'd have had some money left to spend in the recession.
    With hindsight, we could have gone into the recession with a lower debt figure. But lets not exaggurate.
    Public Debt in 1997 after 18 years of Tory government? 53% of GDP.
    Public debt in 2008 after 11 years of Labour government? 47% of GDP.

    Pre-recession Labour brought the national debt down slightly, not up.

    I repeat, it's people who don't understand economics who vote Labour
    Do you have any response to the growth or unemployment figures I provided to you?
    I've really love to hear your justification for this statement.
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    Labour is by far the best party to vote for! The Conservative's just say what you want to hear.
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    With hindsight, we could have gone into the recession with a lower debt figure. But lets not exaggurate.
    Public Debt in 1997 after 18 years of Tory government? 53% of GDP.
    Public debt in 2008 after 11 years of Labour government? 47% of GDP.

    Pre-recession Labour brought the national debt down slightly, not up.


    Do you have any response to the growth or unemployment figures I provided to you?

    Yes. In 2009, the UK had the worst budget balance as % of GDP of any country in the EU, as well as the USA, Canada, China, Japan, and all major economies in the far east, Australasia and South America. Our national debt is worse than any other developed country in the world.
    (Source: The Economist, 23rd January 2010)

    Now I don't think the Conservatives are really any better than Labour, I just see them as the lesser of two evils. I have lost all faith in Labour now.
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)

    With hindsight, we could have gone into the recession with a lower debt figure. But lets not exaggurate.
    Public Debt in 1997 after 18 years of Tory government? 53% of GDP.
    Public debt in 2008 after 11 years of Labour government? 47% of GDP.

    Pre-recession Labour brought the national debt down slightly, not up.


    Do you have any response to the growth or unemployment figures I provided to you?
    I've really love to hear your justification for this statement.
    1997 was 5 years after a large recession, 2008 was preceded by a prolonged boom fuelled by loose money worldwide (nothing to do with Labour). Besides which, the failings of a previous government wouldn't excuse this one anyway.
    Reducing the public debt by 6% of GDP after 11 years of economic growth (bar a small blip circa 2001) is hardly an impressive feat.

    The growth figure is ridiculously optimistic - E&Y predict growth of 1% for 2010 which would be below Europe and the US, so I wouldn't go blowing that trumpet too loudly. Unemployment may be "only" 7.9% but the inactivity rate is at a record high, and the employment figures are somewhat misleading because they don't reflect the numbers being pushed from full time to part time work.
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    Gordon brown is a lot better then David Cameron
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    Yes. In 2009, the UK had the worst budget balance as % of GDP of any country in the EU, as well as the USA, Canada, China, Japan, and all major economies in the far east, Australasia and South America. Our national debt is worse than any other developed country in the world.
    (Source: The Economist, 23rd January 2010)

    Now I don't think the Conservatives are really any better than Labour, I just see them as the lesser of two evils. I have lost all faith in Labour now.
    You have to remember that in 2009 Labour had to bail out the banks. When we have such a large financial services sector, that's always going to be expensive - but the consequences of letting RBS, Bradford & Bingley, Halifax et al collapse would have been far worse.

    Its nonsense that our national debt is far worse than any other developed country, particularly as Japan has a public debt edging on 200% of GDP and as the U.S. is beginning to dwarf out debt with a public debt of $12trillion predicted to rise to 149% of U.S. GDP by 2014. You haven't given a link so I can't argue against your stats, but as you cited the Economist here is a link to the Economist's own comparison tool: http://buttonwood.economist.com/content/gdc. A brief comparison with other developed countries seems to reveal that the U.K. debt is very much par for the course, and in fact remains below that of many other developed countries.
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    Who else would create police state other than Labour?
    Id cards, drones spying on us, speed cameres, cctv...some of the achievements of the Labour government.
    They definitely stopped speeding and reduced crime.
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    (Original post by cpj1987)
    Personally, I'll be voting Labour because I agree with a lot of what they've done over recent years, particularly with regards to university and to this country's youth population.
    They're increasing tuition fees, paving the way for the future Conservative or Lib Dem governments to continue that, child poverty is at a higher rate now than at any time since post-1945 Britain, children are now more likely to be placed into social care programmes, obesity has grown out of control, bureaucratic protocols in the name of "equality" prevent freedom of speech and divide children yet further and divorce rates are now higher than pre-1997, so what is it that they have done so well for the youth's population?

    (Original post by usainlightning)
    904,000 extra people are now employed by the public sector than in 1997
    ... and that's a good thing, why?
 
 
 
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